Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

We will file suggestions here that did not make the cut. Don't expect detailed responses, but the most common reasons are:
- implementing the suggestion is impractical, or too much work for the gain
- the suggestion is thematically against our design philosophy
- the suggestion is too detailed/low-level
Keep your suggestions broad and focused on RP benefits, please, not detailed suggestions of how to tweak X class.

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Should high level monks on Arelith have glowing eyes?

Yes they should (Keep the Glow)
54
47%
No they shouldn't (Remove the Glow)
61
53%
 
Total votes: 115

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Anime Sword Fighter
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Anime Sword Fighter » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:48 am

My only problem really with them is the conflation with warlock IC. Wouldn't be opposed to both having color removed

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Dreams
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Dreams » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:26 am

I think the glow for monk eyes should remain, as a character who has achieved Perfect Self has Ki that has been cultivated to a level that it is shown outwardly. They become an outsider because they are beyond the physical and this sort of shows that.

That said, it would be great to see monks roleplay as monks. It would be great to see monks who have achieved Perfect Self show some semblance of self-control or disciplined thought.

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RedGiant
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by RedGiant » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:29 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:39 am
um as is there is no mechanical benefit to the monk, its just there
Mechanical advantage to those fighting the Monk. Red Eyes says, "Paladin, smite me here." Blue Eyes says, "Blackguard, smite me here...that is, if you bothered to quickslot your sub par smite-good."

As for Role Play disadvantage, for a time my Monk was kept out of Guldorland, where Soul Haven is, for having glowing eyes and "looking unnatural."
Azarain wrote:...nothing says Lawful Evil more than super high taxes for beach front property.

chris a gogo
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by chris a gogo » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:50 pm

I like my monks glowing eyes and voted to keep them.
I've read this whole topic and the argument seems to be.

But you can meta game the eye colour for alignment.
In PvP vs evil/good abilities will work on my character.
Lastly I can't disguise my character and infiltrate the order of paladins because my level 20+ monk has red eyes.

To Red giants posts about looking unnatural and being kept out of Gulorland that's great it isn't a disadvantage it has created RP rather than them just glancing a character then ignoring them.

The glow has created for my character both positive and negative RP the negative isn't Bad it's just not to my characters advantage.

Peace out.

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Anime Sword Fighter
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Anime Sword Fighter » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:25 pm

Another idea is DM application for the glow itself if people are dead set on keeping it, similar to pale master bone arm

Its_a_jelly
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Its_a_jelly » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:35 pm

I play a monk, and I voted to turn them off (or better yet, a one time choice or toggle option).

1. Gives away alignment
2. Gives away level
3. Gives away class (Granted, this would be exposed quickly, regardless, but not with just a glance)
4. Instantly advertises mind immunity (and other immunities) in PvP situations - big disadvantage
5. High level Monks have total control over mind, body, and spirit. Yet, suddenly have glowing eyes they can't control.
6. Limits some kinds of RP while encouraging mindless "Hey, that guy has glowing eyes...must be a warlock!" RP (gets old).
7. Apparently, other classes are able to hide their "tells."
8. PnP monks don't get glowing eyes
9. Looks bad IG

I appreciate the poll, but I worry that non-monk players will vote to keep the eyes just for the PvP advantage/information they gain from seeing the glowing eyes. I hope not.

Monks *should* be able to control them (toggle). But, at the very least, people who actually play monk characters should get a one time option to turn them off, if they choose.

Infinite Solutions
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Infinite Solutions » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:46 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:50 pm
\
To Red giants posts about looking unnatural and being kept out of Gulorland that's great it isn't a disadvantage it has created RP rather than them just glancing a character then ignoring them.
Every instance of "creating RP" isn't equal. There are quite a few players who leap at the chance to make someone else feel bad, intentionally exclude them or shut down any story they're trying to do because they find a loophole like monks and warlocks both having glowing eyes that lets them. Saying "we don't want you here" to someone who obviously isn't an enemy IG tends to be fleeting and negative RP not some great thing to build on.

I think the whole accusing monks of being warlocks thing is old and tired and I've seen many people who simply wouldn't budge in their opinion. Yeah, okay, that creates RP, but it's generally negative RP that means the monk moves on and nothing else comes of it. There are a lot of better and more original sources of RP out there and it's not a finite resource.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:50 pm

What a toxic Snuggybear community over such a simple thing as two glowy orbs.

Infinite Solutions
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Infinite Solutions » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:31 am

Aw.. We disagree and bicker but this is still one of the least toxic online games communities I've ever seen.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ork » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:48 am

Infinite Solutions wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:46 pm
chris a gogo wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:50 pm
\
To Red giants posts about looking unnatural and being kept out of Gulorland that's great it isn't a disadvantage it has created RP rather than them just glancing a character then ignoring them.
Every instance of "creating RP" isn't equal. There are quite a few players who leap at the chance to make someone else feel bad, intentionally exclude them or shut down any story they're trying to do because they find a loophole like monks and warlocks both having glowing eyes that lets them. Saying "we don't want you here" to someone who obviously isn't an enemy IG tends to be fleeting and negative RP not some great thing to build on.

I think the whole accusing monks of being warlocks thing is old and tired and I've seen many people who simply wouldn't budge in their opinion. Yeah, okay, that creates RP, but it's generally negative RP that means the monk moves on and nothing else comes of it. There are a lot of better and more original sources of RP out there and it's not a finite resource.
You, I like you. Couldn't have said it any better. Bravo.

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A Mystery Clock
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:22 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:50 pm
What a toxic Snuggybear community over such a simple thing as two glowy orbs.
Actually... it seems a pretty civil pro/con discussion. People disagreeing and arguing in favor of their point of view is good. I didn't expect this to get as in-depth, and some folks here brought up some very interesting points.

Since we're hopping in the realm of how much RP is lost/created by keeping the glow as it is, you'll notice that my initial suggestion was in favor of a toggle, as I still believe some people (yeah, I'm going there, Amadeo's eyes are iconic) actually benefit from keeping it and created some really good RP out of it.

I really don't like the all in/all out argument. A one-time choice identical to -height about whether to have a glow, and which color, would be much better. Let's be absolutely honest with pros and cons and how much RP is actually created or lost with each choice. I won't talk about mechanics and pvp, because frankly I don't give a hoot about it.

Keeping the glow as it is:

- static, reveals alignment.
- locks monks out of disguises.
- locks monks out of infiltration.
- creates a lot of RP around the flow of Ki, and possibly a lot of interesting discussions about alignment, IG.
- can create some cool RP when alignment shifts do happen (but this happens somewhat rarely).

I think that what is lost is more than what is gained here. Alignment uncertainty, figuring out if someone is good, evil or otherwise, subtlety and not being locked out of disguises should be an option. It is a very broad chunk of RP that just vanishes into thin air, forcing all monk characters to be fairly blunt. This can be a strength for characters that in a way embody an alignment, and are happy to broadcast it to the world, but it begs the question why this doesn't automatically apply to classes that ARE more dependent on having an obvious alignment, such paladins and blackguards. Likewise, a warlock's TOGGABLE eyes.

Removing the glow completely:
- removes all of the above

Fixes several problems, but axes those monks that do play the flow of QI. Self explanatory. It unlocks a lot of RP, but I am afraid it would leave some PCs (or those who want to play a monk with glowing eyes, because they just think it's cool) in an awkward spot.

Adding a ONE TIME toggle that allows you to choose the color arbitrarily OR remove it completely:

This choice creates a ton of interesting RP. It makes everyone happy, it allows people who like it to keep it and people who don't to remove it. It removes the connection between glow and alignment. It's not toggable, so no going super-sayan/cyborg in the heat of the battle.

What this would do is actually interesting. I think that by giving people the option to pick and justify their glow (or lack thereof) it could create a lot of RP. From playing an attunement to the Outer Planes (thus EXPANDING the rp of monks as outsiders- not just limited to good/neutral/evil but actually attuned to Arborea rather than Carceri, an elemental attunement etc etc) to getting creative with it.

People would look at a monk's glowing eyes (or lack thereof) and instead of going "ahhh a neutral/evil/good PC" they would wonder what their deal is, ask questions, try to figure out their history and the philosophy their eyes reflect. I personally feel it would create a lot of great RP, making everyone happy and not giving any character the axe.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:38 am

Yeah, i think my only gripe is lack of consistency on characters who have had glowing eyes for the last decade. Otherwise, i dont actaully care. Determining someone's alignment dnd just isn't a hard thing to do in DnD. On the other hand neither is the glowing eyes. *shrugs*. I don't think it merited custom hak work, but devs need to follow their passions too.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by DM Titania » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:30 pm

I would rather it stay, but each be the same color.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Irongron » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:02 pm

Given only between 5-10% of our players use the forums I think it safe to call this poll inconclusive.

It's made for interesting reading though. While I was in favour of removing it, I think in this case I'm not going to; there's clearly enough support for the status-quo to make changing things around needlessly divisive - after all, those of us that do find it absurd (and I do) have lived with it long enough.

I might revisit this topic future, but for now...

Suggestion rejected.

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