Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

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Reallylongunneededplayername
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Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:06 am

The doors are perfect shaped good wood, Metal and other materials A+

The locks:
They can go to insanity, No? If you max out lockpick, Become the ultimate master of security,
You always find doors you can not pass. Acceptble for a guildhall, Understandable for a mansion, Questionable for an average home, Laugable for a room.

Traps:
Two things about traps, Aside that they can be a swift end to the average low HP'd lockpicker, You can't see them, Eh? There is no way you see traps on quarters, This boggles my mind.

Bash:
Also something I find a bit questionable. Same as with the locks, Laughable to rooms, Understandable to mansions etc. Though, I would find it hilarios if there would be an automatic shoot through the area at succes. "A loud crash is heard"

That's all.
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Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:14 am

I believe the search skill will allow you to find and disable traps completely removing them. I am unsure the price to fully max out a trap but I am sure it would be annoying to have someone repeatedly disarm your door trap.

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DM GrumpyCat
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by DM GrumpyCat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Counter argument:

If you are low level/poor you're likely to end up being burgled a LOT. Small rooms and such are often the least desirable of quarters - which is understandable. Would not lowing the max lock/bash DC make them even less desirable and encourage people to hog/sell large quarters for even more?
This too shall pass.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by The Greater Good » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:19 pm

Used to be you couldn't get into people's quarters at all.
Monte Cook wrote:The idea here is that the game just gives the rules, and players figure out the ins and outs for themselves -- players are rewarded for achieving mastery of the rules and making good choices rather than poor ones.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Eters » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:23 pm

Situation : Rooms are easier to lockpick, bash as that makes more sense. Houses slightly harder and Guild quarters are still insanely hard.

Through one day, 24 hours Real time, every potential burglar has the right to steal 1 item from your chest.

Let us assume that the lockpick to your room is reasonable, and everyday an average of 2/12 burglars visit your home and succeed (if the mechanical change is pushed, more people will invest in lockpicking and thus, the number of burglars will rise.) , many have rogue dips with lockpick, which means quite a high number of people would find it now profitable to steal from rooms. This means that by the end you will lose 2 "slots" of items from your chest a day. As thieves are allowed to take one item/stack of items per 24 hours.

There is no way that is fun for you as a player as the only counter play to that is to find a better quarter, because you have already maxed your room's security but it caps somewhere not all too impressive, because it's just a room. but we all know the situation of quarters currently, it's atrocious and upgrading from a small room to a larger room or a house can at time take months if not, be completely impossible unless you are extremely lucky. So all you have to do is give up on your room's security and use the settlement bank system to store your items, but it maxes at a limit of 12 items and if you're a low str character you're bound to suffer being encumbered all the time if you can't count on your room's door to be secure.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:18 pm

The issue with locks, and the reason why they cannot be made easy to pick has always been fun-related.

Over my years in Arelith I have had a few quarters, some of which were not very secure. Most of the instances where my quarter was robbed, I just had some items missing, that is it. You can argue that I could start asking around for known thieves, track down one by one, shake them to try get the one responsible for it. But should I really bother? 9/10 times I am not going to find anyone.

Only a few times I had burglars actually break into the quarter and be mindful. I had a few leave notes, that is nice, it gives me something to go for. And only once I had a burglar choose to go for an RP item (a diary) over other expensive items I had within.

If locks are to be made easier to pick then greater accountability needs to be put on the burglars side.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:22 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:24 pm
Counter argument:

If you are low level/poor you're likely to end up being burgled a LOT. Small rooms and such are often the least desirable of quarters - which is understandable. Would not lowing the max lock/bash DC make them even less desirable and encourage people to hog/sell large quarters for even more?
Yes, although wouldn't a side affect also be that smaller/less desirable quarters would get swapped around more? Just depends on what you are going for I guess.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:30 pm

You could store your "Precious" in a settlement vault :) 100% theft proof.
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naturaly
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by naturaly » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Settlement vaults arent secure either: One guy in hide can empty it out as soon as you open it. When it’s open everyone sees what you see and has access. Of course 1 per 24 hour rule but still, arguably that’s the least secure storage. It stays open after you close too if they’re in it, terrifying.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by JubJub » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:39 pm

At least up some of the rent, the fact you can trap and max out your vault lock and the rent stays 50g is a bit odd. You can see and disarm traps on doors, but like any trap the more powerful the trap is the harder it is to find.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Taerl » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:40 pm

Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:06 am

The locks:
They can go to insanity, No? If you max out lockpick, Become the ultimate master of security,
You always find doors you can not pass. Acceptble for a guildhall, Understandable for a mansion, Questionable for an average home, Laugable for a room.
If here you are saying the max ceiling should be set according to quality of quarters then I'd have to disagree. I can afford the best lock so I would change out the lock. Just because the house is not a mansion don't mean a better lock can't be put on the door or it don't mean a wealthy person does not live there.

I personally don't like dealing with burgers either since rarely is anything left to rp other than I was robbed. It gets boring.

When I played a rogue I left notes in the chest explaining they might notice blah blah was missing, they might also notice a green and black fletching from an arrow was near the foot of their bed. In my description I had green and black arrow fletchings. I didn't disguise or change my description. Now if EVERY thief could leave a nice decent hint as to who was there then it could be fun.......... But 9/10 or more do not.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by xanrael » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:30 pm

The problem with quarter theft in my mind is it is more like PvEvP than PvP.

If I'm a thief there is nothing directly against the rules for me to check the playerlist, see that the homeowner or anyone else I think has a chance of living there is offline, and break in taking an item and leaving zero clues. This also isn't City of Heroes/Villains or Eve Online where you could have a mini-dungeon the owner designed filled with defenses or a customized starbase protecting their assets.

Personally (and this has been suggested before by others) I'd rather see the front doors to mansions/factional buildings have a lock DC that's high but not insane but the doors to individual rooms within remain LOL high. Keeps factions connected to the rest of the player base, factions should have more people so more likely for encounters within, and discourages the unrented storage room thing.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by magistrasa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:05 pm

xanrael wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:30 pm
I'd rather see the front doors to mansions/factional buildings have a lock DC that's high but not insane but the doors to individual rooms within remain LOL high. Keeps factions connected to the rest of the player base, factions should have more people so more likely for encounters within, and discourages the unrented storage room thing.
Seconded!! It'd be really cool for spycraft roleplay to be able to sneak into guildhouses when you know there's an ongoing meeting.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Nevrus » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:17 pm

Also it would make the non-interaction of hiding behind an impossible to destroy door as a general faction survival strategy go away a little bit.
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Cortex » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:19 pm

It's a cool idea until people start abusing it, having one character pick lock the door and letting gank squads in, even if it's empty or worse it has only one or two people.

One guildhouse can be "snuck into" and what happened was that people kept going there everyday of the week, sometimes with gank squads to harrass whoever was inside.
:)

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Subutai » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:25 pm

Cortex wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:19 pm
It's a cool idea until people start abusing it, having one character pick lock the door and letting gank squads in, even if it's empty or worse it has only one or two people.

One guildhouse can be "snuck into" and what happened was that people kept going there everyday of the week, sometimes with gank squads to harrass whoever was inside.
Honestly, this seems to at least border really close to breaking the "play nice" rule.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by xanrael » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 pm

Cortex wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:19 pm
It's a cool idea until people start abusing it, having one character pick lock the door and letting gank squads in, even if it's empty or worse it has only one or two people.

One guildhouse can be "snuck into" and what happened was that people kept going there everyday of the week, sometimes with gank squads to harrass whoever was inside.
That's a problem with gank squads, not lockpicking in my mind.

A gank squad can go after any group that is not lucky enough to own such a place every day of the week too. Nothing should make your RP consistently (relatively) immune to interaction with the rest of the server.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Cortex » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:13 pm

The point is that if a system is exploitable, people will exploit it. It doesn't need to be a gank squad, it can be a single person who makes the guild their temporary residence on the daily, to the point people no longer roleplay in the guild hubs and instead hide in their quarters for it, essentially changing nothing in the end.

There's many exploitables in Arelith that have been changed over time because of the above explanation, or that still exist (due to no work being done to fix it or being impossible/very hard to fix) that people still abuse on occasion (and when caught are punished).

This is a "this is why we can't have nice things" arguement, with the size that Arelith is, affording these things becomes even more of a hassle for DMs, brews the eons old "you vs them" mentality where someone is clearly not being nice and antagonizes someone, and the someone feels the punishment from DMs wasn't enough, so on, so forth.

its shit

edit: Using the example in my first post, that guild weakness was later loathed by everyone in that guild, due to the abuse that happened. The people who abused were probably handled by DMs, but that doesn't remove the taste, nor will it stop from someone else in the future making poor use of it. Years ago, sneaking after someone in a quarter was not allowed by the rules, but people still did it because they could (it was eventually made allowed, the reasoning eludes my memory).
:)

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by xanrael » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:04 pm

Cortex wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:13 pm
The point is that if a system is exploitable, people will exploit it. It doesn't need to be a gank squad, it can be a single person who makes the guild their temporary residence on the daily, to the point people no longer roleplay in the guild hubs and instead hide in their quarters for it, essentially changing nothing in the end.

There's many exploitables in Arelith that have been changed over time because of the above explanation, or that still exist (due to no work being done to fix it or being impossible/very hard to fix) that people still abuse on occasion (and when caught are punished).

This is a "this is why we can't have nice things" arguement, with the size that Arelith is, affording these things becomes even more of a hassle for DMs, brews the eons old "you vs them" mentality where someone is clearly not being nice and antagonizes someone, and the someone feels the punishment from DMs wasn't enough, so on, so forth.

its shit

edit: Using the example in my first post, that guild weakness was later loathed by everyone in that guild, due to the abuse that happened. The people who abused were probably handled by DMs, but that doesn't remove the taste, nor will it stop from someone else in the future making poor use of it. Years ago, sneaking after someone in a quarter was not allowed by the rules, but people still did it because they could (it was eventually made allowed, the reasoning eludes my memory).
If the faction can't deal with lone squatters and huddle in their rooms I'd call into question them owning the guild house in the first place. There should be more to a faction than simple guild house ownership.

Regardless I imagine the behavior of not engaging in interactions with that squatter and hiding in their rooms is going to have a RP and morale cost to the faction members that RPing in their nearly impregnable base does not. I'm sure they did complain, but I'm not sure losing the ability to segregate their factional RP from the rest of the server thanks to a door is that strong of a complaint. Anyone that doesn't have one of these places has to deal with possible disruptions after all.

I'm not saying its perfect, but you could have a slight tweak/clarification of the rules that if there is an engagement and someone dies, regardless of the winner the owners are allowed to enter and leave while those that do not have to stay away for 24 hours unless the rule is waived by both sides.

I'll also add that I really hope this example isn't the Arcane Tower as comparing the Hub of the surface is a bit different than a faction house.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Artenides » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:01 am

I often reduce the difficulty of locks on my quarters and have weaker traps to encourage thiefs to rob me. I usually store heavier items [coal, ore, glass, etc] in the quarter stash only so it's kind of a win-win for everyone. I don't need to carry these heavy items on my characters and if someone robs me [horray for them] they can take something that doesn't worth much but its heavy. :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:19 am

Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:30 pm
You could store your "Precious" in a settlement vault :) 100% theft proof.

Hi, what about characters that for one reason or another take no settlement citizenship?
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:40 am

Artenides wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:01 am
I often reduce the difficulty of locks on my quarters and have weaker traps to encourage thiefs to rob me. I usually store heavier items [coal, ore, glass, etc] in the quarter stash only so it's kind of a win-win for everyone. I don't need to carry these heavy items on my characters and if someone robs me [horray for them] they can take something that doesn't worth much but its heavy. :twisted: :twisted:

We all need a story of success when it comes to RP, this is my contribution. :D
As someone who played a thief, this is how you get them. Most thieves breaking high DC locks won't bother over smaller less valuable items if the weight is too high.

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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Cerk Evermoore wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:40 am
Artenides wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:01 am
I often reduce the difficulty of locks on my quarters and have weaker traps to encourage thiefs to rob me. I usually store heavier items [coal, ore, glass, etc] in the quarter stash only so it's kind of a win-win for everyone. I don't need to carry these heavy items on my characters and if someone robs me [horray for them] they can take something that doesn't worth much but its heavy. :twisted: :twisted:

We all need a story of success when it comes to RP, this is my contribution. :D
As someone who played a thief, this is how you get them. Most thieves breaking high DC locks won't bother over smaller less valuable items if the weight is too high.
Where? I need coal!
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:08 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:19 am
Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:30 pm
You could store your "Precious" in a settlement vault :) 100% theft proof.

Hi, what about characters that for one reason or another take no settlement citizenship?
As one that has a quarter but no settlement; If it ain't a resource, If it's heavy, If I can not pawn it, I don't want it.

But that is how I deal with it.
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Re: Quarter doors: A brief feedback.

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:08 pm
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:19 am
Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:30 pm
You could store your "Precious" in a settlement vault :) 100% theft proof.

Hi, what about characters that for one reason or another take no settlement citizenship?
As one that has a quarter but no settlement; If it ain't a resource, If it's heavy, If I can not pawn it, I don't want it.

But that is how I deal with it.
So you are asking for a change that has no negative repercussions for your own character, but does for others who exhibit different choices and engage with the game in a different manner to yourself? And your response to questions about it is to suggest people behave more like you do?

Hmm.

Where did I put that thinking emoji...
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