"A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators

Locked
JediMindTrix
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by JediMindTrix » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:35 pm

Gnarh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:25 pm
C'mon y'all. Seriously.

This comes down to one thing - you've got to trust the Dev's. This decision would be based on two questions:

Firstly, "What is best for the server?"
Secondly, "Is it based on evidence."

The only reason changes like this happen is because the playbase has been actively observed in behavour assessed as detrimental to the server. It may not be what you've done specifically, but there's enough players doing it. So the Dev's have decided to act. If the behavour changes in game they may change it back. Complaining about it on the forums isn't going to do anything.

If you don't like it, don't play.
Dev's once upon a time thought it was a good idea to cap the amount of xp you could get during y hours (that was the intention at least, you could actually beat it just by grinding fast enough). At the time, it got a lot of biteback. A few enterprising players (or possibly staff members it was a long time ago) such as yourself said basically what you just did 'trust the dev's blindly and if you don't like it don't play it'.

Lots of people didn't like it, and Arelith's player count tanked to new lows. Obviously, this change won't result in players leaving as it's not as heinous. My point is that dev's aren't infallible and you should never blindly trust anything or anyone, ever, for any reason. because Humans are imperfect and sometimes make mistakes and/or don't consider the unintended consequences/all angles as thoroughly as they could.

"If you don't like it, don't play."
This comes across as dismissive and rude.

This in particular is both dismissive and rude.

User avatar
Cortex
Posts: 3418
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Cortex » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 pm

I concur that complete blind trust on developers or leading team of anything isn't a good idea, and that criticism is of importance. At the same time, said criticism may not be completely valid or correct, without referring to the OP. The "if you don't like it, don't play" mentality often proves to be... detrimental, in subjects like these.

And with the comparison of the grindscript being drawn two times now, I feel like I must point out the impact of this update is miniscule on an atomic level when put next to each other (regardless of how they were received), and that they affected two different areas, in different manners.
Scurvy wrote:This is a fine stance to have, but a little misplaced in a mechanics feedback thread, don'cha think?
EVERYONE I DONT LIKE IS A CYRICIST

WinkinBlinkin
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 5:29 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:45 pm

My only experience of higher levels running lower level dungeons has been when I have had a perfectly sound party all set up and ready to go, and a higher level player has invited themselves along for the rp. I then get the feeling that all the lower levels are being nice, and don't really want to say "Sod off, we've taken half an hour to get this group together and now none of us are going to get any xp!" and we all just think, "Ah, well. At least we'll still get a little writ xp, more the merrier, mate." I don't feel like they're doing us a favour, I feel like we're doing them a favour, letting them tag along. I'm not wanting to game the system, I'm just wanting to not have to find some ic reason to say, "Do you mind not coming? I'm 1k from a level and would really love to get crippling strike tonight."

I am sure devs have a more holistic view of the server than I do, I just struggle to see how this was being abused in the first place. I'm sure you're right, though, Gnarh, that some people must have been taking the **** with it to bring this change about. Just because I can't imagine how it was being abused, doesn't mean it was being abused the hell out of.

It really isn't that big of a deal and I doubt it will affect anyone very much (unless they were the person that caused it to come into effect). However, without knowing what was so bad about it in the first place, it seems a bit of a strange change that discourages people nice and inclusive, and encourages conscious xp maxing, rather than the opposite.

WinkinBlinkin
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 5:29 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:48 pm

The constantly spamming message, however, is the work of Satan and must die in a pit of fire.

User avatar
MissEvelyn
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:43 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:03 pm

Gnarh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:25 pm
C'mon y'all. Seriously.

This comes down to one thing - you've got to trust the Dev's. This decision would be based on two questions:

Firstly, "What is best for the server?"
Secondly, "Is it based on evidence."

The only reason changes like this happen is because the playbase has been actively observed in behavour assessed as detrimental to the server. It may not be what you've done specifically, but there's enough players doing it. So the Dev's have decided to act. If the behavour changes in game they may change it back. Complaining about it on the forums isn't going to do anything.

If you don't like it, don't play.
This is such a toxic attitude to have. And it screams "not welcome" to newer players.

Allow me to fix that for you: If you don't like it, voice your concerns and give feedback so that the devs can improve on the matter at hand.

The fact of the matter is that players make the server, and not the other way around.
While I'm aware that my meager monthly support doesn't even come close to a fraction of what the devs, DMs, and staff do to make Arelith an amazing place and all the hard work they put into it, at the end of the day, without the players, there wouldn't be a server.

I've seen and participated in many roleplay servers whose staffs held the same attitude that you do, and these servers are either dead, empty, or nonexistent to this day.

I urge you to reconsider your approach.

And as others have already mentioned, just because you trust the devs doesn't mean you're not allowed to voice your concerns. This is a community, not a dictatorship, and this community is comprised by all of us, many of whom are extremely passionate about this place, and rightly so, having spent many hours and made many great memories here.

User avatar
Dinosaur Space Program
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:30 am
Location: Under a rock.

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Dinosaur Space Program » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:06 pm

I'll bite. I felt like things said in this thread already summed up my own feelings and thoughts on the matter. But perhaps one more stick on the fire won't hurt.

The writ system was a beautiful upgrade to the process of leveling on Arelith. Slick, intuitive, and honestly pretty fun. It allowed people to get together around similar quests and adventures and profit from it on a level that made the experience of leveling frankly... effortless. It was made to give compelling and easy to digest reasons for rag tag teams of people to form up parties and venture forth into the unknown. In some ways, it shortcutted RP a little too much at times, but that's alright in my assessment for the sake of people having fun.

Epic characters mentoring/puppydogging/leading/swamping low level characters has always been a thing on Arelith when it came to faction based RP. Usually, in an effort to keep things consistent, the epic/epics would take the low level characters to higher end areas to teach them the basics and watch how they responded to threats and orders. If the epic wanted to watch how they performed in their own skill bracket, they would just eat the exp in an area and tag along in a low level dungeon. Experience would always be had from RPB mostly and the bonding experience was the final reward. It was the payoff.

Now we have the combination of these two factors.
The effortless leveling of writs is a cookie. It is something added for fun and enjoyment and has almost nothing to do with RP. We, the players, are responsible for the RP that goes into these experiences. We build RP around this system and we build RP without it. We are complaining that this cookie being taken from us is detrimental to RP that we had long before it existed and will have again if it is completely removed.

Perhaps I am just feeling cynical, but this feels like a 'have your cake and eat it too' moment. I have faith that people are capable of having fun, having enjoyable faction based bonding experiences that don't Rely on this one wonderful little mechanic to enable them.

Leveling is already incredibly fast with the writ system. Leveling is already fast Without the writ system compared to historical server eras. I have faith that your mentoring RP will be just fine without this and, in fact, might get more inventive for it like it had to be back before the writ system was introduced.

RP has not been diminished here. All of you are creative writers and inspirational authors of your own characters. I am sorry you feel this way so strongly that your RP should be mechanically rewarded in this fashion, but the writ system was never a given. And who knows.. maybe one day it could be removed if abuse continues to be an issue. Let's just be glad it exists and comes in so many varieties and flavors to begin with. It is a wonderful tool and that's all. And sometimes, that tool isn't appropriate to be used for the server's overall health in the way we are taking it for granted.
“The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!”
-Larry Niven

Historical Character List

thingsicantdo
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by thingsicantdo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm

PinataPlethora wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:46 pm
Cortex damages The Forums: 11 (9 Physical 1 Salt)
this bothers me more than it should

PinataPlethora
Posts: 732
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:41 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by PinataPlethora » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:36 pm

thingsicantdo wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm
PinataPlethora wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:46 pm
Cortex damages The Forums: 11 (9 Physical 1 Salt)
this bothers me more than it should
I blame Cortex.

JediMindTrix
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by JediMindTrix » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 pm

Cortex wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 pm
And with the comparison of the grindscript being drawn two times now, I feel like I must point out the impact of this update is miniscule on an atomic level when put next to each other (regardless of how they were received), and that they affected two different areas, in different manners.
I've drawn the comparison based on the reactions of players, which was similar in that it was almost universally reviled, not because they are anywhere near the same metric of '"bad" decisions' (I use "Bad" loosely here because really it's actually just unpopular.)

Nitro
Posts: 1704
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Nitro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:03 am

PinataPlethora wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:36 pm
thingsicantdo wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm
PinataPlethora wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:46 pm
Cortex damages The Forums: 11 (9 Physical 1 Salt)
this bothers me more than it should
I blame Cortex.
#Cortexdidnothingwrong

Wrips
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:06 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Wrips » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:20 am

I just noticed it was reduced to 3. :D

Wings of Peace
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Wings of Peace » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:34 am

Just adding onto the pile of people giving feedback that they disagree with the change. I had a lot of really good rp with high level characters who assisted me as a lowbie and watching the difference between our characters reinforced the sensation of being very low on the adventurer ladder. Now that my character is high level, I've gotten to be on the other side of the experience and found that helping low level adventurers is a good way to build relationships between characters in an organic fashion. I realize that a lot of these scenarios can still happen, but it just feels like the change is going to have a negative impact in terms of facilitating roleplay on the server in my opinion and I'm not entirely clear on what's actually improved..

User avatar
R0GUE
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am

Example from tonight:

Decided to roll up a new character because some of my friends have been doing that. I don't manage to find my friends right away, but I'm having a great time RPing and I find several fun people to hang out with right away.

Now I am a casual player who due to work, only has maybe 3-4 hours to play a night if I really stretch it and sacrifice sleep. So I've met new people we are having fun, one suggests we do a writ. Turns out we have a few writs that overlap. We each take it.

I find out about 10 minutes later from yellow text in my box no I won't be making progress toward the writ because he's 3 levels higher than me. I'm a 3, he's an 8.

At this point I'm 3+ hours into my 4 hour play window. I have 2 choices:
1) Just go with him and try to have fun
2) Say sorry, I'd rather not party with you after all (finding some IC reason to be that rude) and hope that in the next 45 minutes I'll find someone closer to my level, have the time to RP an introduction conversation, AND still go do the writ.

2) is just not going to happen.

Some may say "well just suck it up buttercup, aren't you just playing for fun?" Well yes, and I did have fun, but progression is also part of the fun. And it feels like the casual player is being picked on for not having the time to be selective in which party they join. I get one shot at a writ party a night if I'm lucky. It sucks that that one chance has itself turned into a lottery of "are we all in the same level range?"

Gnarh
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:19 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Gnarh » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:23 am

Cortex wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 pm
I concur that complete blind trust on developers or leading team of anything isn't a good idea..."
Blind trust is never a good idea - I trust them on the fact that since Irongron took the reins the team has been remarkably fair and reasonable. They've given us no reason not to trust them, and plenty of reasons to do so.

JediMindTrix wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:35 pm
Dev's once upon a time thought it was a good idea to cap the amount of xp you could get during y hours...

...Lots of people didn't like it, and Arelith's player count tanked to new lows...

No. I was there for the grindscript, and for what followed (I've been here from pretty close to the start of it.)

What nearly tanked Arelith was toxic players with pathological sense of entitlement who believed it was their right to exploit and abuse the mechanics, as well as the noxious subculture that developed on 8chan. This culminated in the hacking of the DM email and the DM sections of the forums, which destroyed most of the trust the Dev's had in the playerbase.

Feedback is one thing - but Mith summed it up best with the leading post on the Suggestion Forum:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=567
Mithreas wrote: I'll be (brutally) honest... suggestions that are simply opinions, without even being based on knowing how the system works, are pretty much a waste of my time to read! This is especially true when you're commenting on something that's explicitly been changed on Arelith, where you're basically saying 'I think the devs got it wrong making this change'. That is not a constructive suggestion.

If you haven't taken the time to be sure on how the module currently works, and to think through your suggestion fully and understand why things are the way they are, you probably shouldn't be making it - all you are doing is crowding out the suggestions made by people who /have/ put the work in to produce a reasoned suggestion, and wasting dev time reading them.

Feedback, like suggestions, are your opinion - but ultimately decisions made by the Dev's are for the good of the who server (who once again, have done a pretty good job.)

I also stand by my "don't like it - don't play" principle, because I saw what happened when player disrespect and over-entitlement got out of hand. It's a privilege to play here. It's one that I am grateful for and won't take for granted. If anyone doesn't like the direction the server is going in, I'd rather they leave than stay and spread their toxicity - because last time it very nearly ended it all.
R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am
Example from tonight:
I find out about 10 minutes later from yellow text in my box no I won't be making progress toward the writ because he's 3 levels higher than me. I'm a 3, he's an 8.
Although after reading this it may be worth changing the 3 level difference - maybe to 5. That way it moves it that half way point between areas so characters can go either up or down a "level appropriate" area for writs. Just my two cents on it.

Wings of Peace
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Wings of Peace » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:45 am

Gnarh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:23 am
I also stand by my "don't like it - don't play" principle, because I saw what happened when player disrespect and over-entitlement got out of hand. It's a privilege to play here. It's one that I am grateful for and won't take for granted. If anyone doesn't like the direction the server is going in, I'd rather they leave than stay and spread their toxicity - because last time it very nearly ended it all.
This is your main point that I disagree with. "Don't like it - don't play" comes off as saying that expressing discontent is pointless. A lot of the people expressing discontent are doing so because they want to like it. Similarly, most people are giving some amount of reasoning for why they don't like the change. Sure, some go into more detail than other, but ultimately they're giving that feedback because they want to like it and they think that, as a collective, their feedback will help the devs understand the way their decisions are affecting the player experience. The way that you're explaining your position makes it sound like you view them simply expressing their opinions as toxic.

User avatar
Mithreas
Arelith Admin (Fixed Level)
Arelith Admin (Fixed Level)
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:09 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Mithreas » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am

I have a lot of sympathy for people who expect the world to be developed in a way that's fun for them. Ultimately, the world exists because it's fun. Sure, people sometimes mistake "fun for me" vs "makes a better server environment that's fun for all", and devs sometimes make mistakes in trying to make things fun, but the principle is fine.

The issue is the practical side of it. Ultimately, working on the server has to be fun too, because otherwise people don't do it, and if nobody is willing to work on the server, there is no server. In practical terms, this means that what the devs want to do has to weigh far more heavily than what players would like to see.

This is the biggest thing that Arelith has got right over the years - it's generally done a good job of keeping the staff side of things fun, with the tedious bits balanced out by fun bits. This has usually been prioritised over player fun, simply because burning your staff out is the way most servers die.

On the subject of server death...
Gnarh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:23 am
What nearly tanked Arelith was toxic players with pathological sense of entitlement who believed it was their right to exploit and abuse the mechanics, as well as the noxious subculture that developed on 8chan. This culminated in the hacking of the DM email and the DM sections of the forums, which destroyed most of the trust the Dev's had in the playerbase.
We lost 2 of the 3 active people with admin access over this episode, so yep, that was a pretty big blow. But (as much as I hate to disagree with a post that is being kind to me!) it didn't seriously threaten the server. We've always had more suitable people who want to work on the server than we can cope with, because keeping things fun for staff means keeping the staff small, or running the server becomes management not creativity. The episode you refer to was very painful, but it also led to Irongron being officially invited to join the admin team, which in hindsight was the most significant boon to the server in at least the five years before EE was released.

My own stepping back from Arelith some years later was in part caused by this episode (because it drove my wife away from the server and meant this was no longer something we did together) - but having Irongron ready and willing to take on the burden was also vital. Running Arelith is a lot of work, both communication and co-ordination and the emotional labour of being the leader of a community, and we are all very fortunate that Irongron has the time, talent and inclination to keep the show on the road and lead the team that continues to improve on greatness.

So - disagree where you feel you want to, sure. Feedback is valuable. But bear in mind that the single most important resource Arelith has is the emotional strength of its leadership team and their willingness to keep on keeping on - and be calm and respectful in your feedback.

-Mith
xkcd.com is best viewed with Netscape Navigator 4.0 or below on a Pentium 3±1 emulated in Javascript on an Apple IIGS at a screen resolution of 1024x1.For security reasons, please leave caps lock on while browsing.

Nitro
Posts: 1704
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Nitro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:35 am

R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am
Example from tonight:

Decided to roll up a new character because some of my friends have been doing that. I don't manage to find my friends right away, but I'm having a great time RPing and I find several fun people to hang out with right away.

Now I am a casual player who due to work, only has maybe 3-4 hours to play a night if I really stretch it and sacrifice sleep. So I've met new people we are having fun, one suggests we do a writ. Turns out we have a few writs that overlap. We each take it.

I find out about 10 minutes later from yellow text in my box no I won't be making progress toward the writ because he's 3 levels higher than me. I'm a 3, he's an 8.

At this point I'm 3+ hours into my 4 hour play window. I have 2 choices:
1) Just go with him and try to have fun
2) Say sorry, I'd rather not party with you after all (finding some IC reason to be that rude) and hope that in the next 45 minutes I'll find someone closer to my level, have the time to RP an introduction conversation, AND still go do the writ.

2) is just not going to happen.

Some may say "well just suck it up buttercup, aren't you just playing for fun?" Well yes, and I did have fun, but progression is also part of the fun. And it feels like the casual player is being picked on for not having the time to be selective in which party they join. I get one shot at a writ party a night if I'm lucky. It sucks that that one chance has itself turned into a lottery of "are we all in the same level range?"
That's 5 level difference, not 3. Also, if you didn't have a writ, would you adventure with this person, knowing it would tank your XP gain hard from the level difference? If yes, then why does it matter if the writ does not give you XP? If no, then the same situation should apply to the writ.

User avatar
Cortex
Posts: 3418
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:21 am

big community backlash

level limit reduced from 6 to 3

Image
Scurvy wrote:This is a fine stance to have, but a little misplaced in a mechanics feedback thread, don'cha think?
EVERYONE I DONT LIKE IS A CYRICIST

yellowcateyes
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:46 am

The limitation does no involve the level difference between characters. The limitation involves the number of levels any party member can be over the max level of a quest you are trying to complete.

Most writs have a rather wide six level spread between minimum level at which the quest is offered and maximum level at which the quest can be taken before it stops appearing. Exceptions include newbie quests such as killing rats (which are meant not to be taken past levels 3-4), and the pirate quests which have a much extended max level.

That is to say, you could theoretically accept the help of a character nine levels above you and still accomplish a writ. And both characters can make progress on the same writ as long as they're within the (generally ~6) level range at which the writ is offered. This is well beyond the usual level variance allowed by mob XP.

Also note that you can have a shared writ with a different character yet still not be able to make progress on a different writ. The feedback message is specific on which writ quests are affected.

If you want to mentor a character over a vast level difference, that is fine. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. I would suggest bringing them up to your usual level of challenge, as has been done traditionally during such expeditions. You can also still accompany on their lower-level writ expeditions by simply leaving party. Your kills won't count towards their quest - but then, a teacher shouldn't be doing the work for their student.

Crackle
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 9:11 am

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Crackle » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:51 am

So basically seems the higher level drops from the party, sticks you on guard and as long as you get the last hit you complete the writ. Seems to me this is going to increase the amount of times these "mobs" of epics are going to be in these dungeons. But if it makes people happy .... sure ....?

User avatar
SockYeti
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:42 pm
Location: US: KC

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by SockYeti » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:18 pm

I feel like this change is punishing the masses for the sins of a few.

I understand where the devs are coming from mechanically but as many before me have stated this does seem to rob us of some great RP opportunity.

What about cutting the amount of exp a player earns from turning in a writ if they had help of a high level?
Say (just throwing out random numbers) If the player had help from someone 3-5 levels higher than them their writ xp is cut by 1/4, if they were 6-9 levels is if cut in 1/2 and if they are higher than than it is cut by 3/4? That way we don't lose that opportunity for mentoring RP but it still slows the process of power leveling.
Poe Pimmin, the bard looking for his song (MIA)
Brugga Stonehelm, the not so priestly priest of Moradin

User avatar
R0GUE
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:45 pm

Nitro wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:35 am
R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am
Example from tonight:

Decided to roll up a new character because some of my friends have been doing that. I don't manage to find my friends right away, but I'm having a great time RPing and I find several fun people to hang out with right away.

Now I am a casual player who due to work, only has maybe 3-4 hours to play a night if I really stretch it and sacrifice sleep. So I've met new people we are having fun, one suggests we do a writ. Turns out we have a few writs that overlap. We each take it.

I find out about 10 minutes later from yellow text in my box no I won't be making progress toward the writ because he's 3 levels higher than me. I'm a 3, he's an 8.

At this point I'm 3+ hours into my 4 hour play window. I have 2 choices:
1) Just go with him and try to have fun
2) Say sorry, I'd rather not party with you after all (finding some IC reason to be that rude) and hope that in the next 45 minutes I'll find someone closer to my level, have the time to RP an introduction conversation, AND still go do the writ.

2) is just not going to happen.

Some may say "well just suck it up buttercup, aren't you just playing for fun?" Well yes, and I did have fun, but progression is also part of the fun. And it feels like the casual player is being picked on for not having the time to be selective in which party they join. I get one shot at a writ party a night if I'm lucky. It sucks that that one chance has itself turned into a lottery of "are we all in the same level range?"
That's 5 level difference, not 3. Also, if you didn't have a writ, would you adventure with this person, knowing it would tank your XP gain hard from the level difference? If yes, then why does it matter if the writ does not give you XP? If no, then the same situation should apply to the writ.
So I meant to write "because he's more than 3 levels higher", not that that was our exact level difference.

To your second question, I mean it's kind of obvious right? You sacrifice the xp from monster spawns in the short term, in order to get the grand prize of the writ at the end. I'm not so greedy as to demand both.

I'm just saying, this decision will force me into a choice. It will either kill the ability for someone like me to make decent progression on my character, OR it will force me to stop socializing with characters MORE THAN 3 levels higher than me. I'd have to send an ooc tell, before someone even introduces themselves to me, because there's always that rather long introduction RP that has to happen, and ask their level.

I'm not going to do the second option, because it feels incredibly impolite and not very fun, so I guess I can say bye bye to reliably finding parties that give me writ xp very often.

User avatar
MissEvelyn
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:43 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:49 pm

The only people who truly gain from this update are solo players. Why would the devs encourage solo play and discourage any form of teaming up, even if there's level differences (something that shouldn't even be mentioned in the game, because it's strictly OOC information)?

Those who want to continue to effectively do writs are now forced to either solo or make their character's bias based on metagaming.

Finally, a point no one thought to mention, so I shall. Why was this change kept from the players and not mentioned in the Update thread?

User avatar
R0GUE
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:56 pm

The one thing I foresee from this also is that the next step will be putting a color tag of some sort on players names in their descriptions, that indicates how many levels above or below you they are.

I don't care for this because one of the cool things about Arelith was that kind of thing was shrouded in mystery. You didn't know if the player you were interacting with was a complete newbie or an epic level 30. But if this is the direction you want to go, this would be the next logical step. It would at least keep you from having to do the awkward ooc tell dance of "hey what level are you?"

User avatar
Cortex
Posts: 3418
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:59 pm

This does not encourage solo play so much as even leveled parties. Asking people's level is also an ancient thing, and has been done ever since I can remember, and perhaps more frequently than now, for the purposes of leveling in a dungeon. Not to mention, you shouldn't run into people too far above your level in appropriate level dungeons (if you run into someone three levels above you in a pre-20 level dungeon, something's probably off, since very few dungeons in that range scale to epics).
Scurvy wrote:This is a fine stance to have, but a little misplaced in a mechanics feedback thread, don'cha think?
EVERYONE I DONT LIKE IS A CYRICIST

Locked