Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

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Astegard
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Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Astegard » Fri May 18, 2018 10:18 am

Hey All,

Thinking of heading in the pure rogue path and this will cost me discipline.
I was told that Epic dodge is pretty good vs KD as it is generally made on the first attack.

I cant 100% recall but isent it possible to perform mutliple KD attempts in a round equal to the number of attacks you have?
If so Epic dodge might still work pretty well as the first attempt would have the highest AB.

Thanks in advance,

Astegard

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Jagel
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Jagel » Fri May 18, 2018 10:41 am

You can make kd attempts for every attack so it ad you say: with a -4 ab to attempt kd you dodge the attempt most likely to hit. Still no protection from 20s etc.

Since there is literally no bonuses (except stuff like higher dc on nades and more skillpoints/ epic bonus feats) for rogue past lvl 24 I’d still consider a disc dump. But if you want pure class fun, go for it :mrgreen:

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Astegard
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Astegard » Fri May 18, 2018 11:20 am

Yes i'm really liking the grenade changes and the damage can get insane. (140 crit acid bombs at level 14)

My options now are:
Fighter: 6 damage per attack, discipline, enough feats for dual wield, 4th attack
Ranger: Animal empathy (fun RP), -track (fun RP), Discipline, dual wield, favored enemy, 4th attack
Pure rogue: skills, stronger sneak attack, high DC grenades i'm immune to (choking gas, paralysis), high damage acid bombs etc.

Feat wise all 3 end up the same with epic dodge and blinding speed.

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Jagel
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Jagel » Fri May 18, 2018 11:30 am

With a high animal emp you can get some Nice critter friends that will enable sneak attacks to rip through enemies

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susitsu
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by susitsu » Fri May 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Ive seen animal empathy used to great effect for characters that normally can't solo, but by high epics that will be a lot less relevant for you. As well, I wouldn't suggest the mindset that high AC renders discipline irrelevant. It just means that when they do hit you, you'll drop instantly and be exceedingly vulnerable.

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msterswrdsmn
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by msterswrdsmn » Sun May 20, 2018 8:34 am

Keep in mind, its not just knockdown you need to worry about. Called shot: leg from archers with excessively high AB and disarm attempts from characters with large weapons will screw you over equally, if not worse, than knockdown will. Epic dodge will let you dodge ONE attack per round, which will usually be the first attack. This helps, as that attack also has the highest AB, but it won't be enough if thats all you're relying on to keep you on your feet. Especially if you're playing a dex based build; most finessable weapons are disarm bait, called shot; leg will sap your DEX (ab and ac penalties) and knockdown will force you to loose all your dodge AC (average of 7 to 9 AC for epics)

Sidenote: You could do barbarian for your 6 full BAB class levels. The monk speed bonus doesn't stack with rogue speed buffs, but i'm not seeing anything about barbarian movement buffs being restricted. You'll get some small passive bonuses to damage as well if you have a decent CON score as well. If you have the skillpoints, taunt is also a very useful skill

Animal empathy is a fun skill, and there are some VERY powerful creatures you can EE, but if you have the skillpoints to dump into discipline and another skill, there are better options.

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flower
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by flower » Fri May 25, 2018 11:48 am

You will need least also epic skill focus discipline. Especially if dex based, if your discipline is 50 and lower chance to get kded, disarmed, called shot is rather high.

Keep in mind there are true strike potions.

And melee characters can get often up to 50 ab.
Also ED may be triggered on AOO and other stuff leaving you vulnerable to other attacker.

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Astegard
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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Astegard » Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 pm

Decided to counter it in another way, being a duergar i'll be standing in a cloud of pure rogue DC chocking gas and caltrops.
Currently already permanently dazing stuff with 29DC daze check every second and still only lvl 17, starting lvl 24 para caltraps will be added to that.
So .. come try to KD me :P

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Re: Multiple KD per round? And KD vs Epic dodge

Post by Dr. B » Tue May 29, 2018 4:11 am

Astegard wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 pm
Decided to counter it in another way, being a duergar i'll be standing in a cloud of pure rogue DC chocking gas and caltrops.
Currently already permanently dazing stuff with 29DC daze check every second and still only lvl 17, starting lvl 24 para caltraps will be added to that.
So .. come try to KD me :P
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