Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Fri May 10, 2019 10:22 pm

Beard Master Flex wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:46 pm
Regardless of the mechanical benefits; I will say that I found the crowds and drama surrounding the cage fighting (even if most were just drawn because of the money) to be one of the coolest encounters during my time in the UD.

I mean all characters end up with hundreds of thousands of gold anyway just from writs during their levelling career it seems like a worthy trade on the odd chance some cool RP develops vs some people making a few hundred thousand off bets (which can only be done once a character)

I’d rather see a dispel cast on the fighter and a more unpredictable/evolving roster so there is always an element of risk or a gimmick to be discovered to defeat the foe. Even for level 30s.

And I never felt like participating in the cage fights was anywhere near approaching an evil act. Anecdotally my Outcast character was forced to fight and earn money for some thugs/powerful figures or die. Not any different then the slaves themselves... that’d be like saying Russel Crow’s Maximus Aurelius was an evil dude simply because he didn’t roll over and did once he was captured.
You either die righteous or become the monster yourself. While it might not be enough to immediately flip the switch to evil, it is unarguably some cosmic notches towards it.

The dispel idea is cool. Maybe a breach.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Za-Lord~s Guard » Fri May 10, 2019 11:07 pm

CosmicOrderV wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:22 pm
Beard Master Flex wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:46 pm
. . .And I never felt like participating in the cage fights was anywhere near approaching an evil act. Anecdotally my Outcast character was forced to fight and earn money for some thugs/powerful figures or die. Not any different then the slaves themselves... that’d be like saying Russel Crow’s Maximus Aurelius was an evil dude simply because he didn’t roll over and did once he was captured.
You either die righteous or become the monster yourself. While it might not be enough to immediately flip the switch to evil, it is unarguably some cosmic notches towards it.
Killing slaves for money, fame, and glory is decidedly evil as an act. Killing slaves when you are also a slave because your masters are going to kill you if you don't participate is just self preservation; which is about as neutral as you can get.

A slave character with a sense of good morality who is forced to participate in the fights and win the belt should likely see it as a mark of shame, because it represents something terrible and the "fame" of it perpetuates a system they were subject to themselves.

A chaotic character of any alignment might look at it with disgust as a reminder for their lack of agency and freedom in the matter.

Ultimately, there is room for a non-evil character to find themselves forced to fight in the cage. It's a hard argument to sell for anyone but an evil character to wear the belt though, which is the real issue as I see it.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sat May 11, 2019 12:02 am

Za-Lord~s Guard wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:07 pm
CosmicOrderV wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:22 pm
Beard Master Flex wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:46 pm
. . .And I never felt like participating in the cage fights was anywhere near approaching an evil act. Anecdotally my Outcast character was forced to fight and earn money for some thugs/powerful figures or die. Not any different then the slaves themselves... that’d be like saying Russel Crow’s Maximus Aurelius was an evil dude simply because he didn’t roll over and did once he was captured.
You either die righteous or become the monster yourself. While it might not be enough to immediately flip the switch to evil, it is unarguably some cosmic notches towards it.
Killing slaves for money, fame, and glory is decidedly evil as an act. Killing slaves when you are also a slave because your masters are going to kill you if you don't participate is just self preservation; which is about as neutral as you can get.

A slave character with a sense of good morality who is forced to participate in the fights and win the belt should likely see it as a mark of shame, because it represents something terrible and the "fame" of it perpetuates a system they were subject to themselves.

A chaotic character of any alignment might look at it with disgust as a reminder for their lack of agency and freedom in the matter.

Ultimately, there is room for a non-evil character to find themselves forced to fight in the cage. It's a hard argument to sell for anyone but an evil character to wear the belt though, which is the real issue as I see it.
There's a logical fallacy here that would require more patience than I posses, to fully demonstrate. Instead I'll opt to suggest that you find one of those people who are "supporting it in-game with badass roleplay" as I'm fond of borrowing from Ork. In fact I made a Kudos thread regarding some of those people.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Lunargent » Sat May 11, 2019 6:20 am

CosmicOrderV wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:02 am


There's a logical fallacy here that would require more patience than I posses, to fully demonstrate. Instead I'll opt to suggest that you find one of those people who are "supporting it in-game with badass roleplay" as I'm fond of borrowing from Ork. In fact I made a Kudos thread regarding some of those people.
your avatar is really appropriate for this post

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by magistrasa » Sat May 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Za-Lord~s Guard wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:07 pm
Killing slaves for money, fame, and glory is decidedly evil as an act. Killing slaves when you are also a slave because your masters are going to kill you if you don't participate is just self preservation; which is about as neutral as you can get.
I'll pick this one up.

Morality in the forgotten realms is decided my more than one's intentions, as evidenced by the fact that some things - like necromancy, or the conjuring of fiends - are going to leave that "evil" imprint on you simply by doing them. You can raise an undead army to beat back some orc invasion that's going to destroy your village, a reasonably heroic purpose for a heinous thing, but the thing being done in the name of one's good intentions is still Evil, and there's only so many times one can do it before it begins to be reflected in their alignment. Likewise, a well-intentioned monarch who unwittingly or unwillingly facilitates the deaths of thousands under his rule. How would the cosmos treat someone responsible for so much suffering? And that's what morality is: You're either a positive influence on the universe, or you're a negative influence.

Evil is more than what you ARE. It's also what you PRODUCE.

In the case of the cage fights, you're producing evil through the pain and suffering of those slaves trapped in an endless cycle of torture, death, and rebirth. Ever read Boojah's description? Little guy's been in there for longer than you probably want to think about, and he doesn't wanna die either (or maybe he does, only this time for good).

COV's earlier statement really seems like the perfect summary of the cage fight's effects on one's alignment: "While it might not be enough to immediately flip the switch to evil, it is unarguably some cosmic notches towards it."

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sat May 11, 2019 3:34 pm

A++
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:22 pm
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Ork » Sat May 11, 2019 4:05 pm

I feel like Za really touched on that however.
A slave character with a sense of good morality who is forced to participate in the fights and win the belt should likely see it as a mark of shame, because it represents something terrible and the "fame" of it perpetuates a system they were subject to themselves.
Spells such as summoning demons/devils and raising the dead don't hinge on the ambiguity of choice. Your character literally cast those spells. He might believe he had no other option, but ultimately it was a choice to use those spells, to memorize those spells, to prepare those spells, etc. Killing something isn't evil. Killing something for pleasure is evil, killing something out of necessity is neutral, and killing something to defend is good. The act of killing really has no alignment or cosmic weight beyond the intention.

A slave can choose to die by the master's hand or fight for survival in the pit - a markedly evil, but probably deserving of less points than a demon summoner. In the end, I agree with his assessment that a neutral or good slave performing the slave pits out of necessity wouldn't deserve an alignment shift but would leave lasting psychological effects on their person.

The fluidity of alignment isn't really represented on arelith. Actions happen and alignments fluctuate constantly, but because alignment changes require DM permission, for the most part alignments are static. I don't think labeling "good characters would never do this" is a viable argument. Arelith and D&D allow such a broad spectrum of events and encounters. Honestly, it shouldn't be "good characters should never fight in the arena", but it should be good characters would be more effect by the ramifications of that act than a neutral or evil. Those ramifications should come out in roleplay. Does your paladin wear the belt with pride? Why? What's the justification? If it's convincing (and certainly there are some events or avenues in which it could be), then play on.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sat May 11, 2019 4:21 pm

You're right. That wasnt the argument. The fluidity of it all isn't well demonstrated. The focus was on it the cage fight simply being negative marks. Not a character's overall alignment economy.

If one lives out the rest of their life in an upstanding way, it can work to counter such things. It's all about that total sum effect on the universe. I think the main point here is to be careful and not abuse our imperefect system. How is one going to draw that line? If you leave that up to players to draw it, cheese will abound. That sort of cheese is what inspires this thread.
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Ork » Sat May 11, 2019 4:47 pm

I think the move to make the belt be obvious in the description was the right play. Cheese will happen, but that's really not our job to manage. We, the players, interact with what the world presents and the change will help the players react and keep accountability to players that might use the arena to gain a specific item, and not pay attention to the consequences.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sat May 11, 2019 4:55 pm

I'll end by saying I respectfully disagree. Peer pressure and social constraints are fantastic tools at shaping character behavior. If there was a more IC cultural understanding that these things were 'evil' to participate in? You'd see less people of specific alignments engaging, as a natural, immersive consequence.

Don't think LG folks should participate? Play a fellow righteous brand and challenge their honor. Call them out.

Think people RP some aspect of their race poorly? Serve as a model IC example.

Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable. I would think you of all people would appreciate that notion, Ork.

Which brings us full circle, discussing how best to do so, as it regards the Andunorian Cage Fights :ugeek:
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Ork » Sat May 11, 2019 5:53 pm

I'll just say that I agree with societal pressures, but my definition of "cheese" tends to be rulebreakers, specifically our first one with roleplay. I control my character, and I control no others.

I do caution that sometimes our visions for the future isn't perfect. DMs have a better ability to perceive that on a macro level.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Chair » Sat May 11, 2019 7:08 pm

I really dont know why people care so much about other people's roleplay in regards to the Arena, but all i'll say on the subject is that if you find it out IC, deal with it IC. Also please bring back the Arena Gold, it was such a nice incentive to make these fights public spectacles.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sun May 12, 2019 1:29 pm

Roleplay and the mechanics are already so ridiculously intertwined that there's absolutely nothing you could do to make it even worse.

If you're not a shadow mage, why can't you cast an isaac's storm mister wizard?

Hey warlock buddy, I am a monk and I can tell that you are not a monk because I saw you use mind-fog/darkness twice and that is concrete proof that you're a warlock, for this is not something I can replicate. You're a bard, you say? Sing me a song then *smerks*

What is that belt that you are wearing? I recognize it easily. I may only have ever existed inside Nomad during my entire history as a character on Arelith for my only goal here is to do perform illicit activities with my other fellow nobodies, but you sir are an immoral tyrant and I will have nothing to do with you and make sure that everybody else treats you the same way.

10.000 dennari for the terminator vision! Get your own at your local settlement register!

Aha! I knew it. You are indeed evil. My unwavering faith in God and the souls of 300 orcs I've slain this morning grant me this knowledge.

Clearly, these are vampire tracks. You can tell by the lack of logic surrounding them.

What's one more crooked mechanic for a crooked playerbase?

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Za-Lord~s Guard » Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:29 pm
Roleplay and the mechanics are already so ridiculously intertwined that there's absolutely nothing you could do to make it even worse.

. . .

What is that belt that you are wearing? I recognize it easily. I may only have ever existed inside Nomad during my entire history as a character on Arelith for my only goal here is to do perform illicit activities with my other fellow nobodies, but you sir are an immoral tyrant and I will have nothing to do with you and make sure that everybody else treats you the same way.

. . .

What's one more crooked mechanic for a crooked playerbase?
There are a lot of problematic mechanics to the server, and I've had troubles with several of the mechanics named across a few characters I played previously; so I definitely sympathize with the apparent frustration.

The belt mechanic seems like a good idea, considering the intent of the arena. The winners of the cage get the epic reputation feat, because defeating the beast is something that is meant to be noteworthy and spread by word of mouth quickly. I personally see the belt itself as an acknowledgement/means of conveying the epic reputation.
The fact that cage winners can take the belt off to hide the fame/notoriety they picked up is also a good move away from the other mechanics that show regardless (pirate tattoos spring to mind immediately).

There is definitely mingling between the Underdark and the surface on Arelith. It's a small island, where people and news can get around fast. It's not surprising that people from the surface would at least have an idea of what the championship belt looks like, even if they aren't personally in the loop of who just managed the feat as an UD person listening to the criers would be.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Might-N-Magic » Mon May 13, 2019 4:32 am

Dagonlives wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:24 am
The belt having a player's name on it was a good idea. How about we also make sure that when players fight the matches, they have to do so undisguised so it goes on the heralds.. How else would they get a belt with their name on it in the first place.
Masked fighters, men of mystery, luchadores, men with no name... have always been part of arena and gladiatorial fighting.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Petrifictus » Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 am

I think the idea to put some rebel slaves or captured paladin would be perfect in the pits, as well replace the Beast with some captured Celestial Angel. Killing slaves for profit and fame, no matter if most of them are monsters or raised back in each fight, is certainly an evil act. No hero would go all the way to the Underdark to please devil worshipping dark elves or monsters by killing captured and collared innocents.

Free good guys should get some evil points or such for fighting in the pits in each match. Paladins should lose their lvls and powers.
Maybe the Champion Belt would work as mark of shame on the surface? NPCs like the merchants in Cordor, Myon, Guldorand, Dale and Brogendenstein would be disgusted, giving penalty for bartering for the example and frowns to the player.
Sibayad and Sencliff would not much care about it.

And before someone starts: "Oh, so Andunor need to get all the good things?"
Remind you that the surfacers have plenty of things to play with unlike the Underdarkers, like the freedom in other settlements, getting pirate ink to use ships, etc.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Petrifictus » Mon May 13, 2019 10:00 am

Pit Fights would be morally wrong and unethical to any good aligned characters. They should at least drop as neutral as nobody turn evil all the sudden.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon May 13, 2019 10:51 am

Petrifictus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:00 am
Pit Fights would be morally wrong and unethical to any good aligned characters. They should at least drop as neutral as nobody turn evil all the sudden.
As I said earlier, we don't go this rout due to abuses. It would lead to illegal characters (e.g. Evil Harper Scouts) or else would mean massive delevels and out right character deletions. The only way this would happen is if we as DMs started enforcing it.
If we wanted to go this rout, it would more likely be simply that Good Aligned characters CANNOT fight in the pit. Though as I laid out earlier, this too has it's drawbacks.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Mon May 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 1:29 pm
Roleplay and the mechanics are already so ridiculously intertwined that there's absolutely nothing you could do to make it even worse.

If you're not a shadow mage, why can't you cast an isaac's storm mister wizard?

Hey warlock buddy, I am a monk and I can tell that you are not a monk because I saw you use mind-fog/darkness twice and that is concrete proof that you're a warlock, for this is not something I can replicate. You're a bard, you say? Sing me a song then *smerks*

What is that belt that you are wearing? I recognize it easily. I may only have ever existed inside Nomad during my entire history as a character on Arelith for my only goal here is to do perform illicit activities with my other fellow nobodies, but you sir are an immoral tyrant and I will have nothing to do with you and make sure that everybody else treats you the same way.

10.000 dennari for the terminator vision! Get your own at your local settlement register!

Aha! I knew it. You are indeed evil. My unwavering faith in God and the souls of 300 orcs I've slain this morning grant me this knowledge.

Clearly, these are vampire tracks. You can tell by the lack of logic surrounding them.

What's one more crooked mechanic for a crooked playerbase?
This is off-topic, but this sense of resentment for people playing the game is something I'm on a bit of a crusade against lately.

I'm curious, why exactly, you get to decide that these mechanics are crooked, or that other players are for playing by them?

Warlock Glowy Eyes; you are meant to be playing an evil NOT GOOD character that people are able to recognize by the use of their fell powers and a mechanically enforced set of glowy eyes that trigger when you want to use said fell powers. You traded something important to some fell entity for power. The drawback is that when you use your fell power, people can tell. This was created into the character design. The Dev's clearly wanted you to not use your fell powers in front of others if you want to remain a secret.

So why isn't your use of fell power and another player calling you out for it your fault? All you have to do is not use your blast around people that care - calling them crooked players for using this is saying you want to play the warlock class with none of its inherent drawbacks.

Tracks; I could never do it, but there are people who could tell you a set of teenager's tracks from a grown man with a limp's tracks. They can differentiate grizzly bear from brown bear. This is a fantasy world, and some people are meant to be able to tell your human looking tracks are actually vampire tracks (how about the fact that you're a corpse and you smell like one?) You want to play an undead monster, you can be found out like this one. This is not the other player's fault.

You give up part of your soul/mind/sanity to Shar in exchange for more magical power in the magic that is themed around her domains, but give up the ability to produce force missiles of light. There are multiple methods in the world that are common occurrence for mages who don't use the shadow weave to communicate with each other, and an established history of Sharrans using corrupting Shadow Magics through enchanted items to do Awful Things.

That belt that you get down there in the underdark? It's not the WWE. It's not an entertainment sport where Luchadores are sacrificing their bodies for the honor of their mask, it's a slave sport where innocent people are slaughtered and most don't survive die painful deaths. That belt proclaiming you champion doesn't just mark you lucky- it marks you as a brutal, bloodthirsty villain who excelled in that environment. You want to wear it and tell everyone you didn't have a choice? Good luck, but no, they aren't bad people for refusing to believe you, they're smart.

I'm sorry for using your post, but I've literally seen these complaints from multiple people across the years. They all stem from one source- the player who doesn't want these things outed is gaining a mechanical power boost, and utilizing it- but when someone recognizes it, they want to cry foul. This is wrong- it is your personal choice to utilize these build choices/powers, and according to the Development Team who coded them and the theme of the world you're playing in, they have drawbacks that should be acted on by the people around them, which is why the mechanics exist.

TL;DR
For you to call these things "wrong" is to say that the Dev's and the Team are wrong to have put them in there, and that's not your call to make - it was theirs. The thing that is in the wrong is to judge these other people for doing so, rather than blaming yourself for utilizing the thing that got you found out in the first place rather than being secretive and not utilizing those things in public.

The fault lies nowhere else.

Edit: Again, Royal You's, not individual You's.
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by CosmicOrderV » Mon May 13, 2019 8:29 pm

*applause!*
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Disciprine Come From Within » Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:47 pm

Warlock Glowy Eyes; you are meant to be playing an evil NOT GOOD character that people are able to recognize by the use of their fell powers and a mechanically enforced set of glowy eyes that trigger when you want to use said fell powers. You traded something important to some fell entity for power. The drawback is that when you use your fell power, people can tell. This was created into the character design. The Dev's clearly wanted you to not use your fell powers in front of others if you want to remain a secret.

So why isn't your use of fell power and another player calling you out for it your fault? All you have to do is not use your blast around people that care - calling them crooked players for using this is saying you want to play the warlock class with none of its inherent drawbacks.

You give up part of your soul/mind/sanity to Shar in exchange for more magical power in the magic that is themed around her domains, but give up the ability to produce force missiles of light. There are multiple methods in the world that are common occurrence for mages who don't use the shadow weave to communicate with each other, and an established history of Sharrans using corrupting Shadow Magics through enchanted items to do Awful Things.

That belt that you get down there in the underdark? It's not the WWE. It's not an entertainment sport where Luchadores are sacrificing their bodies for the honor of their mask, it's a slave sport where innocent people are slaughtered and most don't survive die painful deaths. That belt proclaiming you champion doesn't just mark you lucky- it marks you as a brutal, bloodthirsty villain who excelled in that environment. You want to wear it and tell everyone you didn't have a choice? Good luck, but no, they aren't bad people for refusing to believe you, they're smart.
I don't fully agree with Tarkus and his point, however, there is a major issue with people knowing the mechanics too well. Prior to the -4 hit that allows you to carry every weapon, people could out you as a Warlock if you wore medium armor, a spear, and a large shield. Why? Because mechanically that isn't very optimized and Warlocks that hide would use that combination. And that's a really weird OOC way to out a Warlock. Question their magic, look for the glowy eyes, but really, knowing they made a fell pact based on their equipment load is a bit suspect.

Shadow Magi should be something people can find out. But again, this runs back into the issue that people get a little too knowledgeable about the mechanics in game which leads to 2 problems. 1. The Shadow Magi don't want to actually cast their spells as often since the meta revolves around evocation and missile storm, so if you don't ever cast it, people will do the shadow mage test on on. 2. It hurts the storytelling of something that's trying to be a bit more secretive and trying to play to the lore of the class. Sometimes some willful ignorance (Not saying you have to) can be very good for story development.

Finally, the belt argument again. The only issue I have with it is the logical fallacy that participating in a bloody slave gladiatorial pit is somehow the most evil thing in the world. Yes, if you're the sort of character that wants to willingly walk into a battle pit with restrictions on combat style, and do battle with hardened gladiatorial slaves, then you're not a good person. You're encouraging more of the economy into these slave bouts and "feeding the beast" of Andunor's dark economic slave strategy. But again, the majority of the creatures in the pit, based on their behavior when they defeat a PC show that they enjoy the battles. They aren't good people either for the most part. They are hardened monsters, former slavers, sneak immune cheating Deep Imaskari (<3 you Hijo), and constructs. The conjecture about everything else is great for RP, but terrible for the forums, because the more of it I read, the more of it I see as a way to say "You're doing it wrong."

Yes, if you want to make the pit more despicable, that's a good suggestion. I'd be for it 100%. I personally think the fact the slaves get raised after battles mostly reduces the impact of the fact they should be worthless slaves, but I also understand making a system of 10 fight challenges, with random named slave NPCs is a harder undertaking even it would be thematically cooler that the slaves you kill get claimed by that dracolich as well. I've watched the pit fight reduce in it's general RP creation over the years, and I don't think it's the pit's fault. I think it's two things. 1. The players have decided that once a certain number over other PCs got the belt, that there is no challenge to it, thus the belt isn't a big deal. 2. To try to reduce the amount of people who have completed it and gotten the belt, to try to make it more valuable again, let's overhype the fact that you are fighting slaves to create shame on participants.

I'll go a bit of a step further. I've got a True Neutral troublemaking, womanizing, loves to fight for a show, Rogue duelist. I've had OOC tells and IC actions attempt to justify why he wouldn't participate in that fight, when he isn't a good person, and sees the black market shady nature as an opportunity to test his abilities. To take it a step further, he never sought outside help, apart from questions about the future combatants, and tactics were figured out to handle it with what he could find. I enjoyed that experience of the roleplay and my only regret is now that the Beast is defeated and the belt is acquired, that avenue of RP is over, and my character still doesn't have places to really participate in duels and arena battles in ways he would enjoy except for the rare opportunity with PCs. There is nothing like that pit fight when it comes to character archetypes like that.

I'd rather see more positive RP out of the experience rather than a blatant focus on ICly and OOCly trying to judge every character that has it if they are doing it right or wrong. That's for the DMs to decide.

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Yolrii
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Yolrii » Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm

Disciprine Come From Within wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm
I'd rather see more positive RP out of the experience rather than a blatant focus on ICly and OOCly trying to judge every character that has it if they are doing it right or wrong. That's for the DMs to decide.
This.
Elatha Nostalfay: *she furrows her brow* "So... you lie to... everyone?"
Raice Valaine: Out of necessity, but yes, that's an excellent summary.

chris a gogo
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by chris a gogo » Tue May 14, 2019 12:17 pm

I preferred it when if died against the final foe you got deleted.

You can guarantee that there would be a lot less characters wearing the belts if there was a real risk to the fight.


It's just to common place now IMO.

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Disciprine Come From Within
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by Disciprine Come From Within » Tue May 14, 2019 1:14 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:17 pm
I preferred it when if died against the final foe you got deleted.

You can guarantee that there would be a lot less characters wearing the belts if there was a real risk to the fight.


It's just to common place now IMO.
If you die against the Beast, your character is deleted. That mechanic is still in place.

monkeywithstick
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Re: Andunorian Cage Should create reprecussions for attending.

Post by monkeywithstick » Tue May 14, 2019 2:33 pm

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=23026&p=183513&hil ... on#p183513
irongron wrote:I'm also really concerned by this increasing tendency to use lame meta methods to out them. Glowing eyes, hide in plain sight, are NOT ground to insist someone is evil, in a world of endless wonder and magic there can be any number of reasons why this could happen. the world itself is not limited by the class restrictions and abilities of NWN or 3e D&D player rules.
Characters: Izzy, short for Isabel. Shaena Ash.

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