Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
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Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Is this ever a good idea if you have the respective skill maxed out and you don't want to get caught off-guard by stealth?
(Assuming True Seeing is not an option.)
(Assuming True Seeing is not an option.)
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Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
If spotting is your thing, definitely. Hide scores can go over 100, so you need a lot to be reliable. If it's just one in an array, though, there are more useful feats to take.
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Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
True seeing is less an option now, given it really is only reliable during the first 6 seconds and even then, only if the stealthed one is in line of sight.
I think now, more than ever, ESF in either Listen or Spot are viable. I will argue that Listen should be superior, given that Amplify lasts turns per level and offers a +20 bonus. Hide is also much easier to boost than Move Silently, but someone will correct me if I am wrong.
I think now, more than ever, ESF in either Listen or Spot are viable. I will argue that Listen should be superior, given that Amplify lasts turns per level and offers a +20 bonus. Hide is also much easier to boost than Move Silently, but someone will correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Listen has so many semi-hidden variables based on distance, amount of tileset between you and the target, and other factors, that I would almost always recommend spot.
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Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Spot has hidden variables as well, though, based on light, distance, if they're behind you, etc.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Fortunately in my particular case only Listen is a class skill so I don't have to think about the decision.
Thanks for the input, everyone. In this particular case there aren't actually much better feats for me to take (trueflame sorc) ; the competition's, like, Greater Spell Penetration, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy going in on Listen checks.
Thanks for the input, everyone. In this particular case there aren't actually much better feats for me to take (trueflame sorc) ; the competition's, like, Greater Spell Penetration, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy going in on Listen checks.
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Spot is great in that they have to break line of sight again before they disappear. With listen they can disappear again 6 seconds later. And I also think that targeting something with spot is easier.
Listen is great because it is harder to boost move silently, so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.
Listen is great because it is harder to boost move silently, so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Wrong. Stop spreading this.With listen they can disappear again 6 seconds later.
Wrong. Don't spread this. You will function fine at 55+, and noly get more effective the higher you go., so unless you are able to get crazy spot values near 80-100 you should probably go listen.
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
This is actually true. You have to continuously make a listen check vs. a listen target to continue hearing them, and if you fail it they disappear again. This usually happens, iirc, with hearing around corners.
Agreed.
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Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
I played a Listen character for 8 RL years and never once had that 'functionality' occur.
Corners are a LoS deal and often have people disappear in different ways due to tilesets, but in open ground, they won't fade out.
Corners are a LoS deal and often have people disappear in different ways due to tilesets, but in open ground, they won't fade out.
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
You can get great Listen scores thanks to Amplify(which lasts 5 MINUTES now), which lasts turns/level, and 5 minutes from a scroll or misc item.
33 ranks
12 gear (if you can afford it)
5 from Boots of Listening/Elven Boots
20 Amplify
That's 70 listen with a hefty focus on Listen, but no ESF, racials, etc.
With Spot...
33 ranks
12 gear
5 from cloak(I think it was cloak?)
15 True Seeing
For 65, 15 of which will last rounds unlike Amplify.
Noteworthy, if you detect people via Listen, you're still flat footed to them if they sneak attack you. If you detect them with Spot, this is not the case. You can also cast Clairaudience/clairvoyance for a bonus +10 to both spot/listen but again that's rounds only.
Lastly but not least, there's two loot items about that give +5/+5 spot listen which can boost your skills even higher when not in active combat.
tldr ESF spot/listen is worth if you have a feat to spare, or allows you to get enough detection to spot stealthers in combat (usually their hide/MS isn't astronomic unless they're using exclusively stealth gear which makes them weaker in combat).
Edit: Fixed something about Amplify
33 ranks
12 gear (if you can afford it)
5 from Boots of Listening/Elven Boots
20 Amplify
That's 70 listen with a hefty focus on Listen, but no ESF, racials, etc.
With Spot...
33 ranks
12 gear
5 from cloak(I think it was cloak?)
15 True Seeing
For 65, 15 of which will last rounds unlike Amplify.
Noteworthy, if you detect people via Listen, you're still flat footed to them if they sneak attack you. If you detect them with Spot, this is not the case. You can also cast Clairaudience/clairvoyance for a bonus +10 to both spot/listen but again that's rounds only.
Lastly but not least, there's two loot items about that give +5/+5 spot listen which can boost your skills even higher when not in active combat.
tldr ESF spot/listen is worth if you have a feat to spare, or allows you to get enough detection to spot stealthers in combat (usually their hide/MS isn't astronomic unless they're using exclusively stealth gear which makes them weaker in combat).
Edit: Fixed something about Amplify
Re: Viability of Epic Skill Focus (Listen/Spot)
Gear listen
Take 10 wisdom
Take ESF listen
Drink amplify (turns per level here)
And drink claircouyance (10 rounds)
You now have 91 listen. Enjoy radar detection that you can use to meme on shadowdancers trying to spam you. You _can_ get bigger numbers but anyone higher Tran this is not a threat to you as they literally only gear stealth.
Take 10 wisdom
Take ESF listen
Drink amplify (turns per level here)
And drink claircouyance (10 rounds)
You now have 91 listen. Enjoy radar detection that you can use to meme on shadowdancers trying to spam you. You _can_ get bigger numbers but anyone higher Tran this is not a threat to you as they literally only gear stealth.