Law in the underdark.
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Law in the underdark.
Is it equally a crime for people to just run about killing eachother willy-nilly in Andunor? What's the offical position on the role the city and its peace-keepers play?
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Re: Law in the underdark.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Why wouldn't this principle hold true in Cordor, then?MoreThanThree wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:55 amLaw is a projection of power from the powerful upon the powerless, especially in the Underdark. Nobody who holds more power than the enforcers of law in Andunor is beholden to the laws of Andunor.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Because the Surface is crawling with those of Good alignments, something the UD lacks. Typically, people are unable to exert their power to an extent where they don't suffer consequences for it.Invader_Nym wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:03 amWhy wouldn't this principle hold true in Cordor, then?MoreThanThree wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:55 amLaw is a projection of power from the powerful upon the powerless, especially in the Underdark. Nobody who holds more power than the enforcers of law in Andunor is beholden to the laws of Andunor.
Re: Law in the underdark.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Once you're out of their sight, however...
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Peacekeepers aren't actually there for player related incidents. They're there for the protection of the city from outside threats, at least, the last time I rp'd with a dm controlling one, that was what they said. Any issues between players should be dealt with between the players and ruling factions.PinataPlethora wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:34 amThe Peacekeepers are there to prevent violence within the wheel. Starting a fight in front of them should be considered no wiser than doing so in front of a Cordorian Elite or the shadow mages at the Trade Post, and ignoring the ramifications of their presence is metagaming.
Once you're out of their sight, however...
Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
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Re: Law in the underdark.
What makes Andunor any different? As I illustrated earlier, even drow culture, the most vile, evil, and chaotic of all cultures, has a set of rules that people have to abide by. What distinguishes Andunor as intrinsically worse culturally speaking than drow culture?
I'm most interested in feedback from the staff on what the established lore and laws of Andunor are. If it's the case that there is no lore or law, maybe the Peacekeepers should be removed, and maybe the fact that the city is 100% lawless should be codified in some way.
Re: Law in the underdark.
Re: Law in the underdark.
You seem to have an agenda in what you want to hear. You won't get that here. PM the Devs & Admins.Invader_Nym wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:38 amOkay, so, on the surface, powerful evil people can't subvert the law, because the general populace would take steps to prevent that from taking place.
What makes Andunor any different? As I illustrated earlier, even drow culture, the most vile, evil, and chaotic of all cultures, has a set of rules that people have to abide by. What distinguishes Andunor as intrinsically worse culturally speaking than drow culture?
I'm most interested in feedback from the staff on what the established lore and laws of Andunor are. If it's the case that there is no lore or law, maybe the Peacekeepers should be removed, and maybe the fact that the city is 100% lawless should be codified in some way.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
IF you talk to the peacekeepers you will see that they are NOT there to settle fights in the city or to uphold laws. They are there to defend the city from outside forces, like a city invasion from the illithids. And that's it. They are not the equivalent of the Cordor guards or any guards at all in the usual sense. SO no starting a fight i front of the peacekeepers (whom one should note are ironically named) is NOT the same as starting one in front of the Cordor guard. it isnt metagaming to do so, is playing within the setting and actually staying in char to do so .
THE UD is full for warped, dark creatures and even the ones that could be comparable to a civilized race, such as the drow, are nothing of the sort. SO law is whatever the powerful people say it is. Ther is no "established" laws that the server is (or should be enforcing. That is for the Pcs to do; And to break if they feel it necessary.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)
Re: Law in the underdark.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.
So we're very much on track.
Re: Law in the underdark.
I don't know. I don't think that's up to players to discern that - broken record but, message a DM. Andunor is a seat of conflicting ideologies & players often find themselves in uncompromising positions where their adversary won't relent even after crippling defeat. A player that roleplays loss just as fervently as victory often find themselves lauded by player & DM alike.BattleDrake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:02 amJust as an input, since it seems people are avoiding a crucial point here. Despite the laws/rules of Andunor, there are Rules of the Server that supercede any laws you choose to impose. Just because your character is a big bad level 30 that wants to run around telling everyone what to do, or you'll kill them, and it perfectly fits your RP, that doesn't fit the intentions of the Server, nor is it really RP. Keep in mind, everyone is here to RP and have fun. If you want to make laws that aren't fun for anyone and ruin the RP of the server as a whole, go for it, just don't expect to get off scott free.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Yes, I absolutely have an agenda. Why should that surprise you in any way? You obviously have an agenda too by the way you tried to reflexively shut this discussion down. I'm not sure how observing that we both have agendas is in any way useful.
The staff and the players pay lip service to the idea that roleplay is paramount, but the reality is that the UD is a rp-lite deathmatch server, and not only is it allowed, but encouraged by the staff and players. I'm getting private PMs from players who feel exactly the same as me, but they're too cowed to speak up because of players like Ork here who basically tell dissenters to STFU.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Ork wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:15 amI don't know. I don't think that's up to players to discern that - broken record but, message a DM. Andunor is a seat of conflicting ideologies & players often find themselves in uncompromising positions where their adversary won't relent even after crippling defeat. A player that roleplays loss just as fervently as victory often find themselves lauded by player & DM alike.BattleDrake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:02 amJust as an input, since it seems people are avoiding a crucial point here. Despite the laws/rules of Andunor, there are Rules of the Server that supercede any laws you choose to impose. Just because your character is a big bad level 30 that wants to run around telling everyone what to do, or you'll kill them, and it perfectly fits your RP, that doesn't fit the intentions of the Server, nor is it really RP. Keep in mind, everyone is here to RP and have fun. If you want to make laws that aren't fun for anyone and ruin the RP of the server as a whole, go for it, just don't expect to get off scott free.
Not specifying any particular event, bud. Just going over the rules of the server. You know, the Be Nice Rule. There's no reason to message a DM since this isn't about anything in particular. This is just a general rule of thumb.
Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)
Re: Law in the underdark.
PCs who threaten PCs get dealt with by PCs, unless their actions somehow threaten NPCs. [Like, dropping hellballs in the Nomad.]
That's the summary. We're playing a game here people. The NPC guards forfill a game function.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Player 1: "Obey."
Player 2: "No."
Player 1: "Okay die."
Player 1 kills player 2.
Okay, great, rules of engagement satisfied, the interaction is totally IC. No story told, no actual roleplay has taken place, or will arise as a consequence, and it's frankly a totally rotten thing for a player to do to another player.
So, what can player 2 do? Send a PM to a DM and say "This player was mean to me."
A) No player wants to send that PM, because they end up feeling like a whiner, even though the offending player was behaving like a total prick.
B) No DM wants to micromanage on this level.
C) Even if a player did contact a DM, very little, if anything, will come of it. Maybe a warning or something, to be nice in the future, and then the player will be nice for a little while until the heat dies down, and then it's back to normal.
Everyone has their finger on the trigger in the hub and they're looking for a reason, any reason, to pull it. One of the ways we can circumvent this is to at least require players to show some cunning and actually have to use their brain and think about how they can commit a crime and get away with it. Better still, why not develop ways to be mean IC, and nice OOC, so that we can actually tell compelling stories? Or maybe I was right in my original observation, and we secretly do like that the UD is a rp-lite deathmatch server.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Hella wrong. read the commanders dialogPinataPlethora wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:34 amThe Peacekeepers are there to prevent violence within the wheel. Starting a fight in front of them should be considered no wiser than doing so in front of a Cordorian Elite or the shadow mages at the Trade Post, and ignoring the ramifications of their presence is metagaming.
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Re: Law in the underdark.
Yes. Every single time. The Underdark is what it is, because some players have made it so, and others have allowed it to happen.Invader_Nym wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:42 amSo, what can player 2 do? Send a PM to a DM and say "This player was mean to me."
A) No player wants to send that PM, because they end up feeling like a whiner, even though the offending player was behaving like a total prick.
B) No DM wants to micromanage on this level.
C) Even if a player did contact a DM, very little, if anything, will come of it. Maybe a warning or something, to be nice in the future, and then the player will be nice for a little while until the heat dies down, and then it's back to normal.
It may be that nothing comes of your report the first time, or the second time, or maybe even the third time, but when enough reports are filed about a particular problem player, they will begin to lose the benefit of the doubt when DMs investigate incidents.
Re: Law in the underdark.
I'm shutting this down on the account of poor attitude. This should have been addressed privately. Please do not take it publicly if you do not want feedback from the community and only staff.Invader_Nym wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 amYes, I absolutely have an agenda. Why should that surprise you in any way? You obviously have an agenda too by the way you tried to reflexively shut this discussion down. I'm not sure how observing that we both have agendas is in any way useful.
The staff and the players pay lip service to the idea that roleplay is paramount, but the reality is that the UD is a rp-lite deathmatch server, and not only is it allowed, but encouraged by the staff and players. I'm getting private PMs from players who feel exactly the same as me, but they're too cowed to speak up because of players like Ork here who basically tell dissenters to STFU.
Thank you.
Note: Also assuming the DMs do not take note of this and address things accordingly is bad practice as a player. We handle things on a case by case basis, and if there is any punishment, it is between us and the offending player.
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