Piety and Spell Components

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How do you feel about piety and spell components?

Hate it! Let me rp it. You take your froo froo items somewhere else.
21
64%
Love it! It helps shape the setting and my rp.
9
27%
Spell components? Piety? WM for life.
3
9%
 
Total votes: 33

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Emotionaloverload
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Piety and Spell Components

Post by Emotionaloverload » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:46 am

Hi!

So I love both of these systems but I wanted to know how everyone else felt. Please keep in mind that this is about rp and not a discussion on mechanics.


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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Thanatosis » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:51 am

My least favourite mechanics in the game are Piety (not just for clerics) and Deity domains.
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:53 am

Who the hell actually likes those systems?
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Cybernet21
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Cybernet21 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:07 am

I do!It also helps on balancing (but yes i like the RP tied to it too)
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by PinataPlethora » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:18 am

I like the idea of high level casting being more difficult, but in practice, by the time you get access to L7+ casting, acquiring spell components and recovering piety becomes a non-issue. It's like food and drink. You're never going to run out of either, (and if you do, you deserve to die) so it's just a few extra clicks that don't add anything more than a very occasional hassle.

Anything short of a cap on high level spells per RL time period quickly becomes a meaningless hurtle.

If spells required specific components and Arelith was turned into an ultra-low magic setting where level 9 spells don't feel like an errant fart compared to a weapon master's sword, then a component system would be a fun and interesting power limiter.

On the divine side, back when deities had power and presence, spell access recovery could be turned into interesting group RP, but it also meant that those worshiping less popular gods were SOL, so I wouldn't like that, either.
Last edited by PinataPlethora on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Cybernet21 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:20 am

I mean,it makes sense,if your powers depend on your god and you dont utter a single prayer to them or follow their dogma why should the god let you draw power from him.

As for spell components,my idea of arcane casters is that they channel magic through them not create it,so it makes sense they might need something more to chanmel powerful spells unless they wish to spend all their energy to cast that one thing and then be exhausted to do anything magic related for the day.
Last edited by Cybernet21 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by TimeAdept » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:22 am

Spell components are a moneysink that moves gold from the hands of mages to alchemist PCs. It's a literal moneysink in the most transparent way. I don't get why mages don't just always take alchemy enough to make their own spell components. I'd never leave myself to market whims.

Piety could be a cool system but instead just serves as a way to make clerics and druids worse than mages when it comes to spellcasting, since you can have 80000000 components but only 100 piety that constantly drains and is used for spells and godsaves.

I don't like either - but if they must stay, I would rather see spell components used by both arcane and divine casters, and piety kept for specific Divine feats and uses, like Ressing, Divine Shield/Might/Wrath, god/prayer uses, and the like, kept separate from the spellcasting entirely.

I would rather see a system where unique spell components can be used and consumed to get bonus effects to the next spell cast, or some such like that, though obviously that's a lot more work.

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Cybernet21 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:25 am

Yes the system of piety could have some reworking.But remember that OP asked for opinions of this focused on RP not mechanics ;)
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by TimeAdept » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:26 am

Then no, I do not like them, I find them restrictive and boring, the flair of unqiue and colorful spell components turned into mindless pouches of dust to sell for gold, and piety being some obscure meter IC that works or doesn't.

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Emotionaloverload » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:02 am

Cybernet21 wrote:But remember that OP asked for opinions of this focused on RP not mechanics ;)
*Thumbs up!*

I love both systems because they inspire me. On my last Wizard; Oliver, I would use all sorts of spell specific components (gather them, rp making them and so on) and then I would have the item to fall back on. Even if it was just the generic glass component, I liked to have the item with me just in case there was a barter or a theft or whatever.

For piety, I use it religiously (ba-dum tsk!....*Hides*) on all my clerics even if it is a bit slack (to me) when I am doing some crazed ritual but then I generally ask the dm to dock me piety/exp. It also helps that characters of that faith often would come by asking for a group prayer to raise their piety. Yus, this could have been done just because but it provoked them to come by and made some great rp.

So my question was more, rp wise, if you like it, why? And if you hate it, why?

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by The_Queen~s_Rebuke » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:17 pm

I've been around since piety was a communal effort and also was what let mages cast epic spells. The spell component/piety thing is better now, but it's still kind of a tired relic from days gone by. There's no way for mages to get the roleplay feel of foraging for their own materials or the requirement of more powerful components for metamagic casting.

It limits creativity on what people can use for their spell components because all spell components are glass and greenstone, and it's hard to justify enjoying it in-character because it's such an out-of-character bother that it takes me right out of my immersion and enjoyment of the game.

The piety system is better, but it's easier and makes sense for priest-types to be praying or meditating upon the lessons their deities give. And anyway, I heard it was on the list to be worked on.
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by ForgottenBhaal » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:19 pm

If anything, I'd like to see more variations on components, depending on the spell level. That would be cool. I kinda like that the mages has to use spell components as it is.

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by One Two Three Five » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:20 pm

Hate spell components from an rp standpoint. Been wanting a Blood Mage type caster that sacrifices HP/Takes Con Damage to cast high level stuff for basically ever.
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by -XXX- » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:39 pm

Any system that needlessly forces you to waste time by pointless inventory micromanaging deserves a special kind of loathing IMHO.

We do have items designed to improve the "quality of life" in that regards like gem pouches, ore bags, jewelry boxes etc. The spell component/piety/food/drink system does the exact opposite. I personally wouldn't be shedding any tears if it were to go away TBH.

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by triaddraykin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:12 pm

My personal thoughts are that it's a good thing, at least for infinicasters like my flameborn. If it wasn't for spell components, every spell would be Thunderclap, Prismatic Spray, Incendiary Cloud, Meteor storm, Bigby Hands... Why use the lesser spells? It adds a limitation to an otherwise (mostly) powerful class.
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Iceborn » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:30 pm

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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by BegoneThoth » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:00 pm

triaddraykin wrote:My personal thoughts are that it's a good thing, at least for infinicasters like my flameborn. If it wasn't for spell components, every spell would be Thunderclap, Prismatic Spray, Incendiary Cloud, Meteor storm, Bigby Hands... Why use the lesser spells? It adds a limitation to an otherwise (mostly) powerful class.
On my wizard I carried 4 full spell component bags and two stacks of 99 components each.

It's in no way a limiting factor to spell-casting, it is nothing but annoyance.

I guess spell components give you something to do, and a new item to buy/sell in the market that's consumed en masse, so due to that I like it, and think we need more consumables.

Piety however is horrid, as you can't over-stock and each spell you cast weakens your -pray
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:49 pm

So... I like the RP and the trade opportunities spell components open up, but I dislike the mechanical execution.

My biggest gripe is that a 3gp spell component pouch in the PnP game covers the components for about 3/4's of all your spells from levels 1-9, whereas specific spells have more expensive material components that aren't covered (anything with a documented gold cost in the components section of the spell).

Components are considered such an essential part of the kit that it's cheaper than a longsword. Timestop and several other high level spells only require a verbal component and that 3gp pouch.

There is, of course, always the argument that this isn't tabletop, and that's true, but Vanilla NWN doesn't require components either.

I realize it would be a lot of work and is probably low on the priorities list, but I would much rather see spell components for the spells that actually require them, with appropriate costs. It would create much more diverse trade opportunities and increase the variety of goods to trade (at a time when we are looking at a potentially large influx of players, more things to create and sell is better so that more people can cover different aspects of the market).

Resurrection, for example, normally costs a pile of diamonds(they don't have to be great diamonds, it can be a bunch of flawed ones) and a sprinkle of holy water that cost 10,000 gp. True seeing costs an ointment for the eyes valued at 250 gp and is made from mushroom powder, saffron, and fat. Mordenkainen's Sword costs a non-expendable Focus- a miniature platinum sword with a grip and pommel of copper and zinc. It costs 250 gp to construct.


I love the fact that a spell component pouch is a thing here. I just wish it was more thorough than it is, although I understand that's a LOT of work, both to spell scripts and to more of the crafting/trade system.


Piety

My biggest gripe about the piety system is that it places divine casters in an awkward position of RP; a divine caster prays for spells upon waking from rest, and has them granted for the day. During Lloth's silence, spells that were already granted to each priestess remained with them, but could no longer be refreshed.

The fact that you can pray for the spells, have them granted, go into a fight (presumably for a cause your deity somewhat approves of, if any of your spells work in the first place), and because your deity intervenes to save you suddenly your god turns their attention away from you and forsakes you (your god is ignoring you -.- ) is somewhat irrational in terms of RP execution.

I would much rather that when a cleric rests to refresh their spells, they spend a fixed percentage of their Piety right then, rather than on each spell-cast. It, like the rest meter, would limit how many times a priest could rest/refresh their spells in a single dungeon (unless they got someone to plop down an altar and hold a ritual).
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Re: Piety and Spell Components

Post by DM Spyre » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:19 am

Seeing as this is trending down the path of: Fix it, Devs! I shall be closing it.

Reminders:
1. They are not be used to directly influence developers or the direction of the server

Questions such as 'What should be worked on next?' or 'Which settlement would you liked removed?' are not okay. It's fine to have things like 'favourite race/settlement/class'

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