MEGATHREAD - DWEOMERCRAFTING REWORK ON PGCC

[Sincra]

Please keep this civil and explain your reasonings for any feedback as best you can, I will be endeavouring to read anything posted regarding concerns and problem factors people have.
I may not respond depending on the severity or need but I will read everything in here.

[Curve]

Hello. I'm excited to dive in and learn what the new system is like but I wanted to ask about the removal of hard 5%. This will be healthy for the server, standardizing what is possible and making getting that standardized gear easier to achieve. With that said I have two concerns:

1) Gold sink. What will people do with their endlessly available gold.
2) Grandfathered items. There are so many hard 5%'d items on the server and without something like what was done with artifacts, I don't see how it is fair for people without access to those items.

Thoughts?

[Old Lies Die Harder]

Watching the development of this update, I think it's a great start to a necessary change in getting away from slot-machine mechanics on the server.

I do have one concern, however.

As far as I can tell, the new enchanting system will allow for much more powerful items to be created via enchanting, but at a higher cost, including the cost of runic items. What I'm worried about is currently maxed characters with access to 5-10 million or more in coinage immediately maxing out their gear to the new power ceilings using liquid capital and hoarded runics, then farming runic dungeons on repeat and forcing out less geared characters with the new mechanical power afforded by the suddenly widened power gap.

What plans, if any, are in place to mitigate this?

[-XXX-]

People with characters that had over 10 mill in their bank accounts were routinely doing double hard 5% enchantments already.
The new system adds up to hard 5% with a T3 rune items at similar costs. I think it's representative of what could be reasonably expected as endgame gear ATM.

For Example:
+1 stat
+1 stat
+1 stat
+1 UNI
+2 skill

Was possible as a hard 5% with a T3 rune slapped onto it.
With the new system:

+1 stat [8]
+1 stat [8]
+1 stat [8]
+1 UNI [6]
+2 skill [2]
= [32]

So a cap item requiring a T3 rune and a T3 dweomercrafter

The result isn't better. It's not even cheaper. The QoL of getting there might see a noticable improvement though.

[Ad Astra]

So, I'm curious about blade runes and the expectations in this change. While I have never had to deal with this, a lot of players pretty much universally agree that 5%'ing a blade that needs a t3 rune found or purchased for keen is equal in odds and sometimes, 5%ing even seen as less of a time sink including the gold grinding.

Will there be some more variety provided in crafting, like for scimitars, rapiers, and factions, to potentially fill the space for one's desperate hunt to keen their weapon? I expect that the cost of blade runes is also going to rise explosively alongside this. Is it possible the rate at which pure chunks of zardizak spawn will be increased? Or will every new character either have to commit themselves to the katana or save up an unarguably massive amount of gold to purchase the goods for a blade rune, or run runic dungeons for months?

[AllPizzasArePersonal]

I don't really mind either way and am mainly interested in what kind of discussion and reasoning went into this as insight into the overall development philosophy .

I assume it at least crossed your mind to do something about legacy items that are presently over the 32 point cap. Why did you decide against doing something for legacy items, and are you concerned about these existing as hand-me-downs for years to come?

This is a really cool change and I'm super appreciative for all the work you clearly put into this.

[Tikin]

Hi there!

I must say this overhaul seems like very good news from what I understand, kudos for the work!

I've wondered about a few point values that I haven't found in the chart ... I took time to check but I apologize if I missed something.
To make things clear, I understand those won't be possible to be enchanted via the system, but it'd be a help to evaluate what will be possible to do from crafted or looted items:

_skill+3, skill+4, skill+5, skill+6, skill+8 (I don't think there is any higher?)
_unisave +2
_specific save +2, +3, +4, +5 (I think that's the max but I'm not sure?)
_Spell Resistance +10, +12, +26 (that's the only values that come to me, but perhaps there are others?)
_ is there a codification concerning the ability to cast x times a specific spell?
_attribute +2, +3
_Mighty +3, +4, +5 (maximum here?)
_bonus feat
Perhaps I forget things?

About existing crafted items that already come with a rune, what is the plan? Like does it stay the same and the rune allow for 8 points? Or just one enchantment freely chosen? Or is it still debated perhaps?

Thanks a lot!

[Sincra]

Hey, appreciate the questions so far.

1) Gold sink. What will people do with their endlessly available gold.
2) Grandfathered items. There are so many hard 5%'d items on the server and without something like what was done with artifacts, I don't see how it is fair for people without access to those items.

On 1.
This is something that needs a wider approach of many systems so I'm hoping it is an eventually solved thing rather than something I am able to address alone.

On 2.
Kalo and I are in the process of discussing exactly what we want any limitations/restrictions on existing 5% items to be.

As far as I can tell, the new enchanting system will allow for much more powerful items to be created via enchanting, but at a higher cost, including the cost of runic items. What I'm worried about is currently maxed characters with access to 5-10 million or more in coinage immediately maxing out their gear to the new power ceilings using liquid capital and hoarded runics, then farming runic dungeons on repeat and forcing out less geared characters with the new mechanical power afforded by the suddenly widened power gap.

What plans, if any, are in place to mitigate this?

As it stands I have no plans to mitigate this, the anti-grind script for Runics should adequately give everyone a fair chance to attempt Runic dungeons, but it may be worth considering those you wouldn't normally do for a time if it becomes hotly contested, as was always the case with these dungeons.

So, I'm curious about blade runes and the expectations in this change. While I have never had to deal with this, a lot of players pretty much universally agree that 5%'ing a blade that needs a t3 rune found or purchased for keen is equal in odds and sometimes, 5%ing even seen as less of a time sink including the gold grinding.

Will there be some more variety provided in crafting, like for scimitars, rapiers, and factions, to potentially fill the space for one's desperate hunt to keen their weapon? I expect that the cost of blade runes is also going to rise explosively alongside this. Is it possible the rate at which pure chunks of zardizak spawn will be increased? Or will every new character either have to commit themselves to the katana or save up an unarguably massive amount of gold to purchase the goods for a blade rune, or run runic dungeons for months?

I don't personally like working with item design, this is more of a Kalo topic as well. The reason those weapons are conventionally not empowered the same way is their power curve being so much higher for every additional benefit on them.

As with other items weapons will eventually be added to the tailored loot systems and thus will be able to have the NON-PLAYER PLACED rune properties which means a higher cap.
Any increase in chances is beyond my control and sits solely with Irongron.
As for the grind, I am in technical terms actually adding a second way to reach the 32 cap via generated items dropping with a T2 Rune (32) or even better a T3 (34) points.

I don't really mind either way and am mainly interested in what kind of discussion and reasoning went into this as insight into the overall development philosophy .

I assume it at least crossed your mind to do something about legacy items that are presently over the 32 point cap. Why did you decide against doing something for legacy items, and are you concerned about these existing as hand-me-downs for years to come?

This is a really cool change and I'm super appreciative for all the work you clearly put into this.

The document actually should include the rationale but it roughly comes out as two reasons:

• The same opportunities for everyone
• Stopping infinite power growth

As stated earlier, legacy items are in discussion!

I've wondered about a few point values that I haven't found in the chart ... I took time to check but I apologize if I missed something.
To make things clear, I understand those won't be possible to be enchanted via the system, but it'd be a help to evaluate what will be possible to do from crafted or looted items:

_skill+3, skill+4, skill+5, skill+6, skill+8 (I don't think there is any higher?)
_unisave +2
_specific save +2, +3, +4, +5 (I think that's the max but I'm not sure?)
_Spell Resistance +10, +12, +26 (that's the only values that come to me, but perhaps there are others?)
_ is there a codification concerning the ability to cast x times a specific spell?
_attribute +2, +3
_Mighty +3, +4, +5 (maximum here?)
_bonus feat
Perhaps I forget things?

About existing crafted items that already come with a rune, what is the plan? Like does it stay the same and the rune allow for 8 points? Or just one enchantment freely chosen? Or is it still debated perhaps?

For version 1 it currently stands as:
Skill points are 1 point per point, players will be able to enchant up to +2.
Unisaves are 6 points per 1, players will be able to enchant up to +1.
Specific saves are 2 points per 1, players will be able to enchant up to +1.
Spell resistance is I believe not accounted for at the moment.
Cast spells is possibly a v2 feature.
Attributes are 8 points per point, players will be able to enchant up to +1.
Mighty is 2 points per point, players can enchant +2 mighty.
Bonus feats are not currently accounted for.

As for existing items, if you attached the rune it is 2/4/6 points, if the module attached the rune then it's 4/6/8 per tier.

Here are the documents so others can more easily access it.
Word Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iek ... Uzuf0sBK34

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 4nTjcktZyA

[Coolguy McMagic]

First off, very happy we are getting a new system without RNG and with a nice UI as well! I hate hard 5s with a burning passion, both because of how frustrating it is to gamble and how annoying it is to have to go through that old menu every single time. So all in all, very glad we get something new and that I never have to put up with the old enchanting system again.

Now here comes the feedback.

The new system is waaaaay too expensive right now. I'll talk about soft 5 / 26 point items first, i.e. items that would not have been soft 5s under the old system and require 26 points under the new, and would not require runes.

As it sits right now at the PGCC, a 5 skill 2 stat item costs about 36k. This is about 4 times as expensive as an old soft 5 item (i.e. an item that has been enchanted to still be doable with a godsave) with the EXACT same properties. Some people have pointed out the cost of failure, but the cost of failure is actually 0, since the godsave allows you to always save the item no matter what. Of note is that the above item requires 2 godsaves at most. Meaning you only have to regain your piety and switch servers ONCE. This is not a great deal of effort, and even if it is, just wait for the cooldown to expire naturally. The minimal amount of effort that was involved with the old system (regaining 25% piety and switching servers OR simply waiting 72 minutes) does NOT justify a 4 times increase in price.

For old hard 5s, things become more complicated. I will use blank base items as a template because those are less complicated here. The cost of a current soft 5 is about 9k, the actual hard 5 enchantment costs about 6k. Assuming you will take about 20 times on average to successfully complete an item, we arrive at an expected cost of about 300k per successful hard 5. Sometimes it will be much more, sometimes it will be much less, but over time, we would expect the price to average out at this value.
Under the new system, a similar item (5 skills, 1 unisaves, 2 stats would be 32 points, for example) will be about 110k PLUS the price of a masterwork rune. T3 runes range between 300k and 600k, with the exception of carpentry runes which are barely worth 80k. Woven runes are about 300k (last time I checked) and jewelled runes are about 600k. It's very important to note here that this additional use for runes will increase the demand for it, but not the supply. So it's plausible to assume that these prices will only go up from there.
So even for hard 5s, you will pay either a decent amount more or a LOT more.
Granted, doing hard 5s is awful and involves a great deal of effort that is separate from the mere gold cost. So a moderate increase in price is reasonable, in my opinion. Paying twice the amount in the case of jewelry is not a moderate increase in price.

Since the new system is both a) intrinsically tied to runes and b) not changing anything about supply of runes, the only thing we can adjust to reduce this massive cost bloat is to radically decrease the costs of this new system.

I propose lowering the cost of a 26 point item to be about 10k, and lowering the cost of a 32 point item to be about 20k. I currently see no reason why gear needs to be made so much more expensive. There's been plenty of feedback about repeated nerfs to gold income and the ever widening gap between old, established characters and new ones, so I won't get into that here right now. Suffice to say, increasing the cost of regular gear by 4 times the amount would radically exacerbate these issues.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

okay here's my bits.

1. regeneration needs a property cost. we discussed this on discord already. looks like a range of 4-6 would be ideal, leaning towards 4 to match uni-save.
2. there is no real way to determine what type of rune has already been applied to an item. i know this is probably already in your list, but what i mean is shown below. it just says other runes cannot be applied. this is a lesser blade rune i used, by the way
   
3. and lastly, masterwork runes don't give us a lot to work with on some items. for this example i will use a sickle of holy mourning, which you could maybe have previously runed for a +1 charisma bonus or something silly. now, if you masterwork rune it, you're only getting 6 points. that's enough to add a couple of things, but it doesn't open access to all properties. if this is the intent, that's ok, but just wanted to bring it up:
   

[Dachlatte]

I'm sure this update will be great.

But I will miss the 5% hard rolls.

[Beary Nice]

With regards to limitations on already hard 5%'d gear, do you mean that you're considering retroactively nerfing gear that was made before this change, or simply preventing them from being modified more with the new system? Do you mean gear that drastically exceeds the point limit, like double or triple 5%, or even those within the bounds of the old system?

Some builds are only functional as a result of the dweomer system that has been in place for many years, and I feel like it would be unnecessarily harsh to nerf/cripple those items.

I understand - and agree fully - that there should be parity with the new system, but it would be beyond unfair to those who worked for just one 5% on their items - like me! - and runing them with a T3 afterward.

Please consider the time and resources that players have already invested in the server, is all I would say.

[Yvesza]

Adding properties to items that come with runes already placed onto them costs a prohibitive amount of gold.

I'm talking about nearly a million gold (800,000) to add properties onto certain pieces of armor.

Is there any way that the cost for enchanting these items could be reconsidered?

[Chloe123]

Most craftable weapons are way way more than the maxium 32 points, they usually have around 50 points and some has a T3 runic which used for keen the weapon, how would the new system handle this case?

One good example is Fiendish Reaver greataxe, it has T3 rune which is by default used for keen the weapon, now in new system this weapon is already exceeding 32 points and no longer be able to be keened.

[Restless Dragon]

Ill try playing about with it a little on PGCC and if anything comes to light add to this but from initial reading through. I like the concept and think there is a fair amount of promise. It will eventually lead to a much easier build experience in terms of simplicity at least, cost is another issue entirely as it seems for the most part costs for the same results in current methods are wildly different.

The main concern I have is the implementation of this 100% gives people who have 5% gear already or multiple 5%'ed gear a very clear advantage. I know you mention discussions are in the works on what to do here and in most cases choices you make are going to always annoy some people, but this feels like you have the choice of leaving them in, causing many to hold onto old characters that have their power spike well above others forever due to simply luck or removing them entirely which feels equally unfair to the ones that have invested their time and efforts into creating these 1 in 20, or 1 in 400 chance items, likely costing them multiple millions of gold if done over several characters and several items. There simply does not seem to be much of a middle ground either because implementing any middle ground leads to both the same problems and both sides are then annoyed.

There are many different playstyles on Arelith, it is part of what makes it wonderful. There is a large group of people that already struggle to find enough time to play, grind and make most end game level stuff, this feels like this will slow progression down a lot for people with lower times while possibly speeding it up for people that have more time investment, which ultimately if anything is likely to lead to price increases as resources become horded, runes become horded and there is little doubt this wont be the case either...just look at how the primordial language books where horded, it ultimately took a DM to log in and role play giving them out to people to stop people being able to horde and sell them at silly prices. The fact that runes and the materials needed to create them are basically a core mechanic to the game in that without acquiring them you can not progress to any greater strengths build wise makes it more of a concern when such items are likely the next to be the ones to undergo silly price spikes.

I saw that this introduces the concept of being able to see to your improvements of the same items over time, on that note how will this interact with defensive essence, if I get a maxed out item from the basin can I still add an essence. Or if i add an essence early on, will it hinder the potential caps I can then reach as it then becomes counted in the calculation?

[Curve]

The document actually should include the rationale but it roughly comes out as two reasons:

• The same opportunities for everyone
• Stopping infinite power growth

This is simple and positive goal. I appreciate the sentiment.

Kalo and I are in the process of discussing exactly what we want any limitations/restrictions on existing 5% items to be.

Cool. Do you want to hear ideas? Is this an appropriate place?

[Chloe123]

Another issue is the Radiant Heart Ring, this ring was designed for the old system where ring slot has lower max points. With new system the ring becomes even more crappy.

[AstralUniverse]

Nerfing a bunch of people's characters into oblivion is likely not the intent of this rework. There will be builds simply unavailable anymore after this and people who are playing them right now and have invested time to gear them shouldnt see it all just being taken away.

Legacy items have always been a part of Arelith, and likely forever will be. There are less and less of them as time goes and a bit of influx of new ones (like this update might result in) isnt necessarily terrible and hasnt been a major issue over the years. The builds who use these items will eventually phase away from relevance over time.

So I dont think we should be touching existing items.

[Shadowy Reality]

Agree that there is no need to nerf old items. If there are double and triple 5% out there they are too few, and honestly they don't majorly change things.

This is very different from old Artefacts, where you had people with regular +1 Boots and then people with +4 Boots, that was a big difference.

[Sincra]

To be upfront I will be posting my step by step todo notes here with 1 notable exception which I will explain further down.

Dweomercrafting todo:
- add darkvision (2)
- change addition of iprp to ignore existing
- add delay of 0.0# to additions so no two overlap
- add cost for regen (4)
- add cost for di (4)
- adjust cost evaluator to 4500 divisor
- adjust cost evaluate cap to 20k
- Begin moving over all existing item properties from giga system that were excluded.

Formal format which will change depending on the additions:
From Sincra:
==================
Ongoing PGCC Dweomercraft Adjustments:
Changes:
- Gold equation has been shifted down slightly to better fit in comparison to the existing costs. Divisor was X, is now 4500. Please see spreadsheet cost tab.
- Points now cap at 20,000 gold each max, was 100,000.
- DI now evaluates to 4 points per 5%, essences should not be counted, please let me know if they are.
- Regeneration now evaluates to 4 points per 1 regeneration.

Fixes:
- Mundane Dweomercrafting ranks should now count for point cap correctly.

Once implemented prices should come down some.
The public facing spreadsheet cost table has also been adjusted with the cap and 4500 divisor to better show the new curve of growth and once I get a chance I will expand it up to 100 points to show it now remains at 20k per point no matter the item.
I will be doing this in stages until we get values similar to the current system at 20 points equivalents.

As for how we're handling items:
On items with points > 32 with a rune, these are rune points and ignore the sum of all points, the NUI shows these points correctly but is slightly bugged at the moment and does not reduce remaining rune points, I will be addressing that asap.

On hard 5'd items, I cannot disclose the actual plan in any update notes as this would inevitably lead to people being alarmist or reactionary, both of which is counter to my intents.
We do not wish to take items, or properties on items, away from people and we have decided on a route forward that should impact players minimally.
We are open to hearing your ideas on how to approach this still as nothing is yet set in stone but bear in mind the above statements and the intent of minimising damage to anyone's playtime + efforts.

If I have missed anything in particular questions wise apologies, please let me know!

Edit: removing that darn markdown

[CptJonas]

Hi there!

First and foremoust I want to say that this change was needed, and is overall good for long term health of server and its playerbase.
Old/current enchanting system is little outdated and hard to approach for moust people.

From what it looks like it will increase usability of this system sooner, not ducking up items just bcs you you wanted to use them sooner, and giving peeps chance to enchant what they need now, and later add what will be needed later.

About gold price.....Well thats hard one, but goal should be in my oppinion, that its super easy and cheap to enchant basic stuff on the gear → Making +1 stat, +1 stat items for low level players just to have something in which they level up. While making it super costly to make high endgame min maxed gear. Eg...it should start super cheap and rise exponensialy with more points invested.

Current items should not be penalized or removed, but there should be some way how to minimize impact on the game and make them "dissapear" sooner. My idea is that any items over some point theashold, or just enchanted items made prior implementation of new system, should be made untreadable in simmilar way how you cant mull items between your own characters.
So the characters with them are stuck with them, and those which they need for their own build to work they keep, but they are not hoarding and reselling them to others for insane prices. Like that you would not duck up current peeps builds while making those items leave server sooner. (maybe even make it so peeps with those items get like extra 5% chance boost on epic sac roll, so they are more likely to remove those characters and keep them only for RP, not for reason of holding on to OP/unaccesable characters for FOMO sake)

On topic of runes.
Yes current system will make runes even more valuable. But...and its big but...I dont think people should cry out to DMs/server owners to change it or help it out.
All our current issues with runes are mainly player made. Hoarding runes, setting price for runes, etc are all player made. Nothing says that T3 rune should cost 500k gold. Its us players in this player driven economy who made it so.
So if you have issue with current rune "problem" use it for your RP, and fix it in character.
Just few examples:

• Dont buy runes from shops which are overpriced (I personaly allways look at first few items in shop, and if they sell stuff for insane price I just stop using that shop on principle). If noobody buys runes for 500k people might keep hoarding them but they will make little to no profit and some will loose their reason for hoarding them (or they will be forced to drop price) → Eg if you dont like something dont support it

• Make union. Run for city ruleship. Then make it so there is rule each rune had maximum price in shop those who sell overpriced crap lose their shop, or are outright exiled from town. Make rebelion, make unions, be hard on those peeps, make runes cheap again, make shops great again.

• Make bandit group. Check which people have insane number of runes in shops. Stalk those people, wait for them to go into rune dungeon and then ambush them. You can do it for revenge, for profit, or even do something like robin hood style, and punish those with full shops and let into dungeons only those who are not on your "blacklist of rich people".

This is player driven RP server → So if you have issues with something try to fix it in character. It might give you great RP oportunities as a bonus.

[Kuma]

Just few examples:

• Dont buy runes from shops which are overpriced (I personaly allways look at first few items in shop, and if they sell stuff for insane price I just stop using that shop on principle). If noobody buys runes for 500k people might keep hoarding them but they will make little to no profit and some will loose their reason for hoarding them (or they will be forced to drop price) → Eg if you dont like something dont support it

• Make union. Run for city ruleship. Then make it so there is rule each rune had maximum price in shop those who sell overpriced crap lose their shop, or are outright exiled from town. Make rebelion, make unions, be hard on those peeps, make runes cheap again, make shops great again.

• Make bandit group. Check which people have insane number of runes in shops. Stalk those people, wait for them to go into rune dungeon and then ambush them. You can do it for revenge, for profit, or even do something like robin hood style, and punish those with full shops and let into dungeons only those who are not on your "blacklist of rich people".

This is player driven RP server → So if you have issues with something try to fix it in character. It might give you great RP oportunities as a bonus.

HELL YEAH

[Seekeepeek]

I wish the skill selection would start at +2 rather then +1, just to kill a few clicks when making items.

[Sincra]

I wish the skill selection would start at +2 rather then +1, just to kill a few clicks when making items.

I'll see about defaulting it to the largest allowed value by default in future.

[Tikin]

Thanks for the answers!

I've tested in PGCC,
The Nui interface is so great, such an improvement compared to what we have now, many thanks!!
A few things I have noted while testing:

_ Atm when I click "change item description" nothing comes

_ I haven't seen a button to change item name ... Have I missed something? Will it be in the same place as "change item description"?

I have difficulty to understand a few specifics here; I hope I’ll be able to express clearly my interrogations, hoping examples will help:
_ How do we know if an item can take a rune or not? Is it the same way as before, and using an Asayer lens will continue to tell “takes this or that rune”, like for example, the “Sergeant Cloak” (id 905 in craft system tailoring), right now can take any rune included lesser (tier 1). Will it still be possible to rune this item, or will the point rule will forbid it? I mean maximum is supposed to be 26 before a rune, and the sergeant cloak is already 37 … What of it?
_ Another example : “Displacer Beast Hide Armor” (id 886 , tailoring). Basin says item is currently 29 points. Will it be possible to add for example a Master Rune? If so, will it allow fr 6 points to be enchanted, or only 3 (like it stops when the item reaches 32 points)?

---

While I am very enthousiastic about this overhaul globally, I foresee high tension on tier 3 runes in Arelith economy (has already started, could get worst for a while after implementation).

Unless something eludes me I’m afraid tiers 1 and 2 pc imbued runes will have low to null interest in that system.

_Lesser Runed item : 26+2 = 28points = 65,6 K
Assuming 10 to 20K for the rune, that makes a total of 75 to 85 K gold
_ Greater Runed item : 26+4 = 30 points = 93,6 K
Assuming 60 to 120 K for the rune, that makes a total of 153 to 213 K gold

These coins are lost when you go to the last rune tier … And that was to have 2 bonus points each time, while one could just wait to use full points thanks to master rune on their items … Isn’t there a big risk to just see most tier 1 and 2 runic materials become as valueless as blueleaf already is?
I know that I for one probably will skip the tiers 1 and 2 for any gear that I plan to have a tier 3 rune on in the end, and this is very particularly true for tier 2 I believe …

A few things I thought could help with this:

_First idea that comes to me in that regard would be to change the curb of point value increase, to have the bottom and middle of the curb way lower than that, even if it means to raise a lot the high part. Something like 28 points cost 10-15K, 30 points cost 50K, all the rest of the total cost (same cost as now) on the 2 last points (80K over the 2 last points to reach the present total of 130K). While it can feel weird at first look, I’m almost certain it won’t change at all behavior toward tier 3. Would only make tiers 1 and 2 more attractive.

_I guess it would be difficult to implement, but the possibility to rune an item that has already been runed could be a solution if doable in term of code, and providing it's possible to respect the strict value the second or third rune is supposed to bring to the item (like you have runed tier 1 so you have 28 points, and if you add rune tier 3 then you have 32 points same as if you had started with rune tier 3)

_Other approach, perhaps more problematic for characters who are poors at begining, but more easy to implement, would be to change the part a rune plays in the total scheme … Like if each tier is worth 4 points of the maximum 32 to reach, it would clearly be more difficult to skip the tiers 1 and 2. That would be 14 points base (not sure about the interest to tie points and character level at all personnally btw), 6 points from dweomer ranks, then 4 / 8 / 12 points from runes depending on tier.

_Last way I can think of, clearly not the one I prefer though, would be to allow something that has already been suggested before: to combine lower tiers runic materials into higher tier.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the subject, and ideas to solve it if like me you believe it's an issue?