Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

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Adam Antium
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Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Adam Antium » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:25 pm

Marble is what specifically made me want to ask you guys for your thoughts - marble is harder to find deposits of, and it seems to be about a third as often to mine from a deposit compared to granite.

Yet they are worth the same gold and resource points when selling/donating to a settlement.

This feels sort of lame, and I'm thinking that multiplying marble's value by 2 or 2.5 would be appropriate, or just making it less insanely annoying to mine.

Are there other resources you guys think should be adjusted like this? Do you think I'm wrong with marble?

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Memelord
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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Memelord » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 pm

Except granite is infinitely more useful as a building material, which should logically make it be valued higher (and thus give more resources per block to the settlement) than marble. Settlements can already manually opt to pay more for marble in the expanded warehouse, which can reflect its value to crafters. Changing the base price doesn't make a lot of sense.

As for other resources: Bricks. Bricks are a worthless item. The recipe either needs to give significantly more bricks - or the bricks need to be worth more, to make crafting them worth the time and energy it takes to gather coal and clay for this purpose (especially with the massive nerf to coalmining we've had.)

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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Sea Shanties » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:05 pm

Earthkin have marble in a starting area. Difficulty to mine isn't a universal experience with the different races and settlements.

Plus for what it's worth, sometimes you think something is impossible to find then it turns out to be in a very easy to access place (though maybe out of the way, like a dungeon with no writs involved so everyone ignores it.)

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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Durvayas » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:43 pm

Memelord wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Except granite is infinitely more useful as a building material, which should logically make it be valued higher (and thus give more resources per block to the settlement) than marble. Settlements can already manually opt to pay more for marble in the expanded warehouse, which can reflect its value to crafters. Changing the base price doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'm of the inverse opinion. Gemstones are utterly useless in general construction, but they are very expensive by comparison to normal stones. Marble has historically always been less plentiful than general stone, and is used for high end construction, in tiles, columns, and the like. It features heavily in sculpting.

Additionally, granite is everywhere, and is collected twice as efficiently, besides having more nodes across the module. If anything, the law of supply and demand should dictate that granite's price should be half that of marble, as demand for both mechanically is flat, but supply is skewed.

As for the second part of your arguement, the base price needs to be changed, rather than settlement price, otherwise, a settlement is immediately victimized by economic warfare, as everyone and their mother dumps tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of units of stone into the target settlement, wiping out its bank account.

There is a very good reason almost every single settlement on the server is set at minumum pricing for all resources across the board. For a change like this to be effective, it would need to be applied 'blanket' to the entire server by altering the material's base value. Anything less will be not only ineffective, but also actively detrimental.
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Adam Antium
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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Adam Antium » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:21 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:43 pm
Memelord wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Except granite is infinitely more useful as a building material, which should logically make it be valued higher (and thus give more resources per block to the settlement) than marble. Settlements can already manually opt to pay more for marble in the expanded warehouse, which can reflect its value to crafters. Changing the base price doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'm of the inverse opinion. Gemstones are utterly useless in general construction, but they are very expensive by comparison to normal stones. Marble has historically always been less plentiful than general stone, and is used for high end construction, in tiles, columns, and the like. It features heavily in sculpting.

Additionally, granite is everywhere, and is collected twice as efficiently, besides having more nodes across the module. If anything, the law of supply and demand should dictate that granite's price should be half that of marble, as demand for both mechanically is flat, but supply is skewed.

As for the second part of your arguement, the base price needs to be changed, rather than settlement price, otherwise, a settlement is immediately victimized by economic warfare, as everyone and their mother dumps tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of units of stone into the target settlement, wiping out its bank account.

There is a very good reason almost every single settlement on the server is set at minumum pricing for all resources across the board. For a change like this to be effective, it would need to be applied 'blanket' to the entire server by altering the material's base value. Anything less will be not only ineffective, but also actively detrimental.
I *THINK* that this manner of economic warfare is no longer possible. That's what I've been told for over a year, anyway. I was informed that people used to make bronze ingots en masse and shit them into a settlement to force an election (which sounds hilarious and fun to me) but that is no longer possible.

Is that actually still theoretically possible?

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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Royal Blood » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:29 pm

Sabotaging a settlements gold reserves via market warfare isn't feasible unless the gold value in their treasury us significantly low. Like sub 1 million

When you donate resources the guy only buys them at full value until the warehouse is full. Then the price is reduced until someone moves them out if the ware house via the menus.

Even then you'd need a stupid amount of resources to drain millions of coin out of a treasury. I guess if you just sat there and made ingots everyday for weeks you could do it. But assuming like 1 ingot sold for 12 gold and then the price is reduced by half when the ware house is full. Then you only get 6 gold. Assuming the settlement has 2 million gold you'd need Thousand and thousands of ingots
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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Bibliophile » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:28 pm

That is entirely dependent on what the settlement has its warehouse buy numbers set at as well as how much it will accept, and then also what the settlement itself offers for stone.

I /thought/ marble was paid more for from the settlement. I wonder when you sold it, did it go to the city or to the expanded warehouse?

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Re: Which resources should be adjusted in terms of value?

Post by Memelord » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:34 am

Durvayas wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:43 pm
Memelord wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Except granite is infinitely more useful as a building material, which should logically make it be valued higher (and thus give more resources per block to the settlement) than marble. Settlements can already manually opt to pay more for marble in the expanded warehouse, which can reflect its value to crafters. Changing the base price doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'm of the inverse opinion. Gemstones are utterly useless in general construction, but they are very expensive by comparison to normal stones. Marble has historically always been less plentiful than general stone, and is used for high end construction, in tiles, columns, and the like. It features heavily in sculpting.

Additionally, granite is everywhere, and is collected twice as efficiently, besides having more nodes across the module. If anything, the law of supply and demand should dictate that granite's price should be half that of marble, as demand for both mechanically is flat, but supply is skewed.

As for the second part of your arguement, the base price needs to be changed, rather than settlement price, otherwise, a settlement is immediately victimized by economic warfare, as everyone and their mother dumps tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of units of stone into the target settlement, wiping out its bank account.
Marble is used as a high-end construction material - as a veneer. It's almost always been used historically in very small amounts, almost only ever as a finishing layer over cheaper materials (like granite, concrete, limestone or wood.) When a 'nice' white stone has been needed to be used en masse, it's traditionally the far cheaper limestone (source: I'm a classical archaeologist and I've personally dug up a hell of a lot of basalt, granite and limestone but we get a little excited whenever we dig up a thin slate of marble.) Since base price directly influences, i.e. is, the amount of unit resources generated by any single item, then base price should logically reflect which resources are of most use to a settlement while allowing for the warehouse prices to determine luxury items like marble - which is used in the crafting of high end decorations like statues and columns (again, at a 1:3 ratio with granite, suggesting that even in the crafting system it's still used like its real-world counterpart, as a veneer.)

Royal Blood wrote:When you donate resources the guy only buys them at full value until the warehouse is full. Then the price is reduced until someone moves them out if the ware house via the menus.

Even then you'd need a stupid amount of resources to drain millions of coin out of a treasury. I guess if you just sat there and made ingots everyday for weeks you could do it. But assuming like 1 ingot sold for 12 gold and then the price is reduced by half when the ware house is full. Then you only get 6 gold. Assuming the settlement has 2 million gold you'd need Thousand and thousands of ingots
Warehouses don't stock ingots, only raw ore, last I had known.

If a settlement's metal price is set at 50% (and most settlements have a 1-2 decade surplus of metal, so I'd be genuinely surprised if any were set above 50%) then it'll take 6,667 ingots of bronze or brass to drain just 1,000,000 gold out of their bank. It is, suffice it to say, fairly unfeasible.

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