Expanded Bank Vaults - No limit/player

[Subutai]

I've been considering the problem with quarters, quarterhogging, and the alleged practice of buying more than one copy of NWN in order to get more than one quarter. It seems like the current vault system is a good solution to this, but could use some expansion.

One current issue is that the most active players are often the ones both with enough need for storage, often having multiple active characters at once that participate in shops, crafting, etc. Right now, however, as soon as one of your characters owns any type of storage, be it a guild hall, house, or vault, they can no longer own any of those on any other character, meaning that if they have two active characters, one of those characters is forced to be almost completely without any form of storage whatsoever.

As the vaults in Andunor and Cordor (I'm not sure about elsewhere) already tend to be 50% empty anyway, they seem ripe as a workaround for this. If the vaults could be expanded (perhaps doubled in size?) and the one/player restriction lifted for them, it would really give players a lot more room to breathe without being tempted to cheat the system somehow.

For specific rules, it could be something like, 1 quarter or guildhall and 1 shop per player. 1 storage chest per character. This would mean that characters with a quarter/guildhall wouldn't be able to double up and get a vault chest, but players with multiple characters could have access to storage. If characters per player became an issue, a maximum could always be added (max 4 storage containers per player, or something).

Additional note: Extending this to slaves would help, as well. As slaves aren't able to own any kind of storage right now, they end up using their owner's storage for crafting supplies, etc., which severely cuts down on what their owner can store for themselves.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

[DM Axis]

A small point to point out that some folks forget. There is an individual storage box if your character has citizenship with either a district or settlement. There are no limits to these individual storage, however the size of the storage ranges from 3-12 items depending on how much the district/settlement leader commits in resources to it.

There is no limit to how many characters can have citizenship and their individual storage. So long as the one vote per player during election season is upheld, you can have as many characters as you want even in a single settlement.

[Subutai]

A small point to point out that some folks forget. There is an individual storage box if your character has citizenship with either a district or settlement. There are no limits to these individual storage, however the size of the storage ranges from 3-12 items depending on how much the district/settlement leader commits in resources to it.

There is no limit to how many characters can have citizenship and their individual storage. So long as the one vote per player during election season is upheld, you can have as many characters as you want even in a single settlement.

I think citizen storage is a good bonus, but I don't think it comes close to alleviating much of the problem. First, like you said, it ranges from 3-12 depending on how much the leader commits to it. So your character's storage is more or less dependent on the whims of a monthly-elected character who might downsize at any time. Additionally, even just 12 item storage is not much at all. A smith who makes mostly quick things for their shop (repair kits, jewelry boxes, etc.) is going to have copper, bronze, and brass ingots, copper, tin, and zinc ore, iron, and a couple stacks of coal at the very minimum, which is already 9 things. That leaves a paltry 3 spots for any kind of other items they want to store.

Not only that, but some places (Greyport) don't even have citizen storage, and many characters (such as druids) are probably not inclined towards becoming citizens of settlements in the first place.

Citizen storage is a nice little storage bonus, but I personally don't think it's a decent solution to the lack of storage space. I'd honestly label it as "better than nothing". It's great for stuff you don't want people to be able to steal, or for storage overflow, but it's much more a complement to primary storage, rather than a form of primary storage itself, in my opinion.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I don't know man, you are talking about stuff that's easy to get whenever you need it. Not to mention that if you have a store like your example implies you can always put that copper up for sale and make a little extra gold off the people that want it for baby catalysts. My elf is a smith, he had no personal storage when he was active thanks to his quarters essentially being sentinel hq, and between his shop and the bank storage he never lacked for room.

[Infinite Solutions]

One thing about 12 items for citizens, this means it's almost mandatory for an alt who can't have their own quarter to become a citizen somewhere whether they are invested in the settlement or not. I don't know whether this is good or not. I think could mean there are alts who are citizens only for storage who might be tempted to vote.

Might just be nice if everyone had some storage for every character. Would probably remove some of the temptation to get a quarter only for the chest inside.

[Kalopsia]

What could be interesting is adding a feature akin to district storage mechanics to existing bank buildings. Essentially, what I’m suggesting is that by talking to a banker NPC, a character could lease X storage slots at the bank vault for a price of X*100gp per ingame month.

[Zeskay]

What could be interesting is adding a feature akin to district storage mechanics to existing bank buildings. Essentially, what I’m suggesting is that by talking to a banker NPC, a character could lease X storage slots at the bank vault for a price of X*100gp per ingame month.

I like this idea more than having it tied to citizenship, especially since storage amount can drop on a whim, depending on the settlement leader. Or maybe the PC doesn't care, or it's not in character for them to buy into being a citizen of a settlement.

What about ex-slaves? They can't get citizenship, even after they earn their freedom, become productive members of society, and adapt to a new life. If your PC is a slave, or ex-slave, they are SOL and depend on others for storage. Laurick still flips them the bird, too... but I digress.

[monkeywithstick]

Have the cost increase by how much is in it, like the stone tax increases per exile a settlement lists.

[BobTheSkull]

I think the key is role play. More specifically, what RP does any given idea generate or detract from.

1) Sherpa: I think we can all agree we have never once had our RP experience increased for having to leave around 2.5k lb of gear, or having your inventory completely cluttered. So there is no RP positive reason for keeping items on a player.

2) Quarters: I think we can all agree there is a strong RP connection with property ownership. However I do not think anyone can identify a positive benefit to RP experience in limiting storage in a quarter.

3) Citizenship: there is a strong, positive, RP connection with citizenship. It motivates more interactions, an avenue into more diverse RP plot lines than your character may otherwise be exposed. I strongly advocate people getting involved and active in their faction of choice. That said, I think citizenship in a faction that is ooc (I want storage) or (I want to manipulate this election) is negative to sever RP.

4) Citizen storage: I would like to see the the storage size increased. I like the idea of being able to buy more storage. Though I think that this should be more token than a method of inflation control. Let's encourage people to store their items and have a "home base" where they ate known to be found and develope a community. And if encourage that increase in size to be virtually unlimited. This seems to serve the best interest of generating RP.

5) non citizen bank storage: Banks, on arelith, are run by the factions. Luckily they seem to honor other factions deposits! However they are a service provided for citizens first, and others second. But I very much want to discourage people joining as a citizen just to use a bank storage. However I think non citizens could still rent bank space at a double the cost rate. Let's say you are a carpenter out of symbiad, you may rent space in gulderan bank to store wood instead of doing a bunch of small trips across the seas.

Again the goal is facilitating an environment most suited to fostering positive IC RP.

[A1RMAN]

I am all for increasing the storage available to player. Of course, many players could fill even 500 units of storage and demand more, but I think current storage is way too small.

The good amount that you're currently receiving is 20 + 12 = 32 units. I have played trade-centric character for 6 months now and storage space by far had the biggest challenge rating in game. If you are serious about building your character as a tradesman you need big stock of materials, many of which are very expensive.

If you don't hate yourself you only have the maximum of 12 units to store these expensive materials, because your quarter can be robbed. I don't know why something like that is even allowed on server when someone can build a character with a sole purpose to annoy people and steal stuff that took days or weeks to gather and produce. I was robbed three times and after the third time I ragequit from the server and didn't play for two months. No wonder people use their players shops for storage - items can't be stolen from there.

The only relative workaround is to keep relatively cheap stuff in your storage chest. In my case it includes secondary weapon, brass, bronze, steel, silver, permanent essences, T1 runic materials, dwarven incantations and some other stuff like wood, glass and coal. It doesn't mean that I would be happy to lose 100 brass or steel. It's just more bearable.

For settlement storage: Most expensive ingots, T2+ runic materials, mining and gem bag.

Everything else I had to carry on my character, which currently consists of 26 crafting material names (not units) plus 5 greater mining bags. So, my character is literally a walking storage. Thankfully, it can carry 2600 lbs without buffs. As the time gone by I started to ignore most of the loot. If it's an item that takes a lot of space in inventory I just leave it where it is, although it could be sold for a good price. I stopped picking up good items that could be put in the donation chests too. I can't even imagine playing a not STR-based merchant smith. I've heard that some players roll only STR-based characters for that reason. Needless to mention that finding free space in my inventory is every-day struggle, including things dropping on the floor.

My point is - at the moment the very limited storage controls which builds people choose to play and how they play them. It also makes character a walking storage chest, which can't be good for RP. Crafting requires a large variety of materials that you need to store somewhere. It's not about being stubborn and wanting to throw away semi-useless stuff, it's about what the game demands from you.

I suggest:

- Make storage chests unbreakable (or possibility to make them unbreakable through crafting better locks or paying more rent)
- Increase the overall available storage. IMO better to increase the capacity of quarter storage chests, because they are available everywhere. Increasing only settlement storage wouldn't help everyone. I think 40 for the chest and max 20 for the settlement storage should suffice.
- Maybe make more quarters with two chests.

[Sea Shanties]

3) Citizenship: there is a strong, positive, RP connection with citizenship. It motivates more interactions, an avenue into more diverse RP plot lines than your character may otherwise be exposed. I strongly advocate people getting involved and active in their faction of choice. That said, I think citizenship in a faction that is ooc (I want storage) or (I want to manipulate this election) is negative to sever RP.

I think this is a double edged sword. Most of us have alts some of which are played more than others. Alts can't have quarters so they usually become citizens somewhere just to have those 12 slots in the bank. I don't think it's a good thing for a settlement to have lots of citizens who are completely indifferent to the goings on. Definitely leads to voting shenanigans among other things.

Perks from citizenship are great and necessary but they should synergize with encouraging activity in the settlement, not getting every possible name on the roster you can.

I'd definitely like to see more storage, ideally in banks and separated from citizenship. Make it a gold sink with rapidly increasing cost to open more slots.

[Memelord]

My elf is a smith, he had no personal storage when he was active thanks to his quarters essentially being sentinel hq, and between his shop and the bank storage he never lacked for room.

I'm not accusing you of doing this but, I feel it should be pointed out that shops are intended to be used as shops - not storage. Using your shop as storage space is a big no-no and I've seen people have their shops snagged out from under them by DMs for doing it in the past.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

My elf is a smith, he had no personal storage when he was active thanks to his quarters essentially being sentinel hq, and between his shop and the bank storage he never lacked for room.

I'm not accusing you of doing this but, I feel it should be pointed out that shops are intended to be used as shops - not storage. Using your shop as storage space is a big no-no and I've seen people have their shops snagged out from under them by DMs for doing it in the past.

I know what you mean, but I put metal in there priced to sell. There was just a lot of it and it was easy enough to restock if someone did buy it. So I was using it as a shop, it just doubled as a storage since that stuff rarely moves save for the occasional alchemist or two. The point I was making is that by doing that I freed up a lot of storage spots, and provided a service to the local alchemists at the same time.

[kiljaedon]

Hell. People buying multiple accounts is the problem. Ip lock on quarters and if one house swaps between similar ips than house ban for real life year. Also the multi boxers is an issue. So many people following behind melee from follow.

[Arienette]

What is a "multi boxer"?

[Nitro]

What is a "multi boxer"?

Someone playing on multiple instances of the game simultaneously. The most common is a mobile edition healer on follow behind the main character to provide buffs, but people with more advanced setups can quite easily run 2-4 applications of NWN from their computer. This has become a lot more common after the mobile release of EE since Beamdog has had multiple 99cent sales of the mobile edition, the CD key of which works perfectly fine for connecting to Arelith with a new account.

[The GrumpyCat]

Just to comment on the /origional/ suggestion a little- I don't think that this would be possible. To fulfil demand we'd have to have literally thousands and thousands of vaults! And allowing it without limit - you know we'd get one player buying up all (or most) of the vaults, then trying to sell them on at outragious prices.

Other extra storage options? I'm not against that. But I think 'unlimited vaults per player' is something that wouldn't work out. The reason why some remain empty now is because vaults do count as quarters, and players would rather own a quarter than a vault, which is fair. I suppose I can see an argument for allowing vaults -Not- to count as quarters, but once more I think then demand would far, far outstretch supply.