The gate spell.

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Frykenstein
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The gate spell.

Post by Frykenstein » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 pm

I feel this spell could do with a boost in duration. It's about as strong as the warlock's final summon but it shows up and says hi and then leaves.... I just feel Clerics should have access to more celestials (or demons or loths or devils) It fits way more than elementals imo.

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Mr_Rieper
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Mr_Rieper » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:34 pm

How does that nerf clerics though?
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Frykenstein
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Frykenstein » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:47 pm

It doesn't It buffs this particular spell :P

Sea Shanties
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Sea Shanties » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:50 pm

Could stick around turns instead of rounds if the summoned creature's alignment is the same as your deity?

Frykenstein
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Frykenstein » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:53 pm

Turns seems like a perfectly balanced option. I was dreaming of hours/level but in the en I only think in PvE.

Orian_666
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Orian_666 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:00 pm

It's too strong to get a longer duration to be honest.

The Elementals from Summon Creature IX are more than strong enough for leveling and farming (Especially for Conjurers) and even though Gate summons are basically just as strong as a warlocks summons a wizard/sorc/cleric has a different and more varied toolset than a warlock does, which makes up for the "weaker" longer lasting Elementals in a lot of ways.

On top of this the Warlocks one is on a cooldown if it gets killed or dismissed, Word of Faith for example is a guarantee to get rid of the summon for a decent amount of time. Plus mages and clerics get access to EDK, an equally short summon but easily the strongest in the game.

Gate is a panic button for mages and clerics to use in dicey situations, one they can recast multiple times if needs be, the Deva alone is strong enough to almost solo kill most PC's in PvP situations and dish out substantial damage to even the toughest PvE bosses.

It's on such a short duration for a very specific reason and if it was increased, even to turns, then it would be far too OP.

Keep in mind I almost exclusively play mages so this isn't coming from a biased standpoint at all, the opposite in fact.

Frykenstein
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Frykenstein » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:11 pm

More outsiders for Clerics would be preferable though. In hindsight maybe that should have been my main point XD Clerics should do outsiders instead of elementalst imo.

Orian_666
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Orian_666 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:13 pm

I wouldn't be against a simple reskin (small skill/ability variation) to the elementals to be outsiders for Clerics, instead of being elementals. Thematically it'd make more sense.

Frykenstein
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Frykenstein » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:29 pm

This would also greatly reduce the ammount of elementals you see :)

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Cortex
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Cortex » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:31 pm

Balance wise, the spell is fine.

Beard Master Flex
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Beard Master Flex » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:33 am

I'm not entirely sure the role Gate even serves.

A fully warded Ancient Elemental kind of packs all the punch you need, and if you were to need more, then the far longer duration and power of Epic Dragon Knight seems like better use for spellslots.

The only use I can think of for Gate is just as a last ditch attempt to recover from a wipe. I'd rather play in a way to ensure that wasn't an option, but maybe I'm too conservative of a player to find a use for it.

Orian_666
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Orian_666 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:57 am

Beard Master Flex wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:33 am
I'm not entirely sure the role Gate even serves.

A fully warded Ancient Elemental kind of packs all the punch you need, and if you were to need more, then the far longer duration and power of Epic Dragon Knight seems like better use for spellslots.

The only use I can think of for Gate is just as a last ditch attempt to recover from a wipe. I'd rather play in a way to ensure that wasn't an option, but maybe I'm too conservative of a player to find a use for it.
I always keep at least 1 gate slotted.

It doesn't last as long as EDK that's for sure, half the duration in fact, (note EDK doesn't actually take a spell slot, it's simply a 1/day epic spell) but EDK can be quite situational too, indoors for example it's a mess and can be easily countered.

Gate summons are extremely strong, even compared to a fully warded elemental, in fact I would even go so far as to bet on the gate summon vs a full warded elemental if all you put on the gate was a imp invis for the concealment.

I find it's best used in situations where the elemental was 1 shot or dismissed and you find yourself a squishy mage alone against a bunch of monsters, the gate summon can generally very quickly clear up any trash monsters still alive before it's duration is up and get you a chance to recover without wasting the stronger EDK.

It's also a very solid summon in sudden PvP, without the time to fully ward an elemental and if EDK isn't an option it's by far superior to an elemental. A gate summon with only Imp Invis (again for the conceal) can very quickly kill a lot of player builds.
Popping GSanc, summoning a Deva, and slapping Imp Invis on it is a very very solid opening tactic while you buff yourself in GSanc.

It is situational like you said, but as Cortex also said Balance wise it's perfectly fine. It has its uses and is in a really good spot as it is.

Vrass
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Vrass » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:47 am

Maybe make it last 1 turn for every 5 or 8 character levels. That would give it a decent duration which is not too long. Maybe also make it so the summon gets no bonuses from spellfocus feats as well.

Hazard
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Hazard » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:29 am

Vrass wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:47 am
Maybe make it last 1 turn for every 5 or 8 character levels. That would give it a decent duration which is not too long. Maybe also make it so the summon gets no bonuses from spellfocus feats as well.
Pretty sure gate gets no bonus from conjuration feats already, and I wish it did.

xanrael
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by xanrael » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:42 am

In my mind it is in a spot between elementals and EDK with the ability to have a stack of them in scroll form. As others have pointed out its ready to fight out of the box unlike an elemental and spammable unlike EDK. The shorter duration matters less when a summon's Time To Live can be measured in a few rounds anyway due to the threat of a tough encounter.

Sea Shanties
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Re: The gate spell.

Post by Sea Shanties » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:57 am

Orian_666 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:13 pm
I wouldn't be against a simple reskin (small skill/ability variation) to the elementals to be outsiders for Clerics, instead of being elementals. Thematically it'd make more sense.
Not only would I not be against it I would actually be for it. Mechanics aside it would be much more interesting RP wise if cleric summons were outsiders. Even if that was only cosmetic (like totem animals.)

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