Chests.

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Reallylongunneededplayername
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Chests.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:02 pm

Hurray for chests!
Their little bundles of suprises and loved by the seasoned rogue all the way to the hobby lockpicking paladin!

Though there is a certain trend going on around Arelith, Folk lockpicking chests, Then bash them or bashing unlocked chest
I have seen it happen quite often.

I understand chest respawn faster when bashed locked and longer unlocked or so.

But I see no reason why folk have to be this much of a dragon turd and bash unlocked chest. Maybe there is a reason? I don't know.

I'm going to suggest the same thing I suggested a few times over the past ten years: Make chests unbashable.

You can open them:

-As Ranger.
-Rogue (most builds dipped into that class already anyway.)
-Wizard
-Sorcerer
-Bard

-with scroll
-Wand
-gear, if you invest 1 point

I see no reason, Whatsoever that they have to be obliterated.

Alternative, Bash lock? If that is mechanical possible.
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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Chests.

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 pm

I think this would make more sense if chests actually had something of worth within them for once.

Sea Shanties
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Re: Chests.

Post by Sea Shanties » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:31 pm

People chest bash for a lot of reasons. For example if you're low level an electric trap on a chest can be difficult to detect and instant death if touched. You're wise to bash every chest with missiles or summons if you have low HP and can't reliably search or find traps. Trapped chests also can’t be opened until disabled and lockpicks dont help against that DC. Strong summons can also one-hit bash chests if you're not careful when trying to open one.

People bash for a lot of reasons, but it's a feature not a problem-- bashing allows the people who can't pick locks to at least get a pile of coins, that's something the devs specifically added for Arelith. If the person before had picked the lock the chest would be empty anyway when you found it next so it's not like you would get the treasure either way.

TimeAdept
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Re: Chests.

Post by TimeAdept » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:10 pm

People loot chests and then bash them because if they come back and the chest is respawned, they know loot is back in it, and if it's not there, no loot. Speeds up loot running when you don't need to unlock and recheck a chest that ends up being empty. If box -> pick up loot.

A looted chest being bashed harms no one because the person coming after them to no chest, would also have simply come upon an empty chest - so no one is being hurt here, because the chest will still respawn in the same amount of time.

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Reallylongunneededplayername
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Re: Chests.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:13 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:10 pm
People loot chests and then bash them because if they come back and the chest is respawned, they know loot is back in it, and if it's not there, no loot. Speeds up loot running when you don't need to unlock and recheck a chest that ends up being empty. If box -> pick up loot.

A looted chest being bashed harms no one because the person coming after them to no chest, would also have simply come upon an empty chest - so no one is being hurt here, because the chest will still respawn in the same amount of time.
Okay! Now I know the reason behind it.
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Kuma
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Re: Chests.

Post by Kuma » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:24 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 pm
I think this would make more sense if chests actually had something of worth within them for once.
having found spell components, time stop scrolls, raise scrolls, +2 [stat] gear, and heaps of other neat stuff in chests, i think this argument is a little outdated
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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Chests.

Post by Tarkus the dog » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am

It's not outdated at all. There are plenty of chests that have empty shields, armor, or +1 gear in it. Sure, I also found a time-stop scroll in the the barbs dungeon, but when was the last time the second chest in the duergar dungeon had anything but trash in it?

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Reallylongunneededplayername
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Re: Chests.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Kuma wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:24 am
having found spell components, time stop scrolls, raise scrolls, +2 [stat] gear, and heaps of other neat stuff in chests, i think this argument is a little outdated
Ayin here has a point, You can find awesome stuff in chest! I have gone through my pre-epics with a few characters on the coin I get from finding Mithril dust, Rare gems and EPIC weapons and other gear in low level dungeons.
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
It's not outdated at all. There are plenty of chests that have empty shields, armor, or +1 gear in it. Sure, I also found a time-stop scroll in the the barbs dungeon, but when was the last time the second chest in the duergar dungeon had anything but trash in it?
Also a really good point, A lot of boss chest have "Junk" in it. Stuff you'd expect in the Cordor sewer, Stuff a Druegar wouldn't even bother putting it in a box.

No idea if chests can be set to drop a certain value of loot? I think it should :/
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Durvayas
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Re: Chests.

Post by Durvayas » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:58 pm

Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:43 pm
Kuma wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:24 am
having found spell components, time stop scrolls, raise scrolls, +2 [stat] gear, and heaps of other neat stuff in chests, i think this argument is a little outdated
Ayin here has a point, You can find awesome stuff in chest! I have gone through my pre-epics with a few characters on the coin I get from finding Mithril dust, Rare gems and EPIC weapons and other gear in low level dungeons.
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
It's not outdated at all. There are plenty of chests that have empty shields, armor, or +1 gear in it. Sure, I also found a time-stop scroll in the the barbs dungeon, but when was the last time the second chest in the duergar dungeon had anything but trash in it?
Also a really good point, A lot of boss chest have "Junk" in it. Stuff you'd expect in the Cordor sewer, Stuff a Druegar wouldn't even bother putting it in a box.

No idea if chests can be set to drop a certain value of loot? I think it should :/
I'm in agreement. I found a glove with +1 spellcraft and 30 gp in the bottom of the shadow asylum in one of the chests yesterday.
Also found Zinc next to the Phaerimm.


Harder dungeons need sufficient loot in their chests, otherwise there really isn't any point in not circle grinding much lower level dungeons for more gold and more chests.

Additionally, resource nodes next to bosses should have arjale at MINIMUM, if not mithril and adamantine. There is still almost nothing more demoralizing than fighting the juggernaught, or the Phaerimm, or Paush, and seeing that the metal node next to them is utterly worthless. Its the same feeling with finding a chest with 20gp or loot that you wouldn't even hand off to a lowbie.

If the chest is not going to give decent equipment, please at least have it give decent gold and gems, so that running high epic content doesn't feel like a waste of time half the time.
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Hazard
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Re: Chests.

Post by Hazard » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:49 pm

I would absolutely hate unbashable chests. Maybe a few rare ones with lore reasons as to why, but they would have to be rare. Sometimes you just don't have a rogue (or pixie) with you. It really sucks when you get to the end of the dungeon and don't even get a chance at loot. No loot? That's fine, you got a chance. No chance? Boo.

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Re: Chests.

Post by Griefmaker » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:31 pm

Hazard wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:49 pm
I would absolutely hate unbashable chests. Maybe a few rare ones with lore reasons as to why, but they would have to be rare. Sometimes you just don't have a rogue (or pixie) with you. It really sucks when you get to the end of the dungeon and don't even get a chance at loot. No loot? That's fine, you got a chance. No chance? Boo.
I have to agree with this. But that is why I like the gold piles and chests. Gold piles are loot for those who do not have the skills to open chests. Chests have (or should have) precious items of value that reward those who can open them.

JubJub
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Re: Chests.

Post by JubJub » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:04 am

It would be nice if it would be possible to break a lock instead of the whole chest. Since smashing the chest is something few would wish to do since it tends to destroy most the items in a chest. So seems like more would wish to smash the lock.

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Flashish
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Re: Chests.

Post by Flashish » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am

Making knock scrolls useable by any class would go a long way towards stopping chest bashing. A lot of classes either don't get lockpick skills until very late in the game or at all, and cross-classing removes your ability to pick up other things you need.

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Re: Chests.

Post by Volograd » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:23 am

Flashish wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am
Making knock scrolls useable by any class would go a long way towards stopping chest bashing. A lot of classes either don't get lockpick skills until very late in the game or at all, and cross-classing removes your ability to pick up other things you need.
Wouldn’t be a point to having locks at all then. Locks are easily bypassed by any class. Even a daisy-fresh fighter right off the boat can drink a potion of Knock and crack a lock.

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Flashish
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Re: Chests.

Post by Flashish » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:50 am

Volograd wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:23 am
Wouldn’t be a point to having locks at all then. Locks are easily bypassed by any class. Even a daisy-fresh fighter right off the boat can drink a potion of Knock and crack a lock.
There isn't much of a point now. And the fighter has an even easier option of just bashing the chest. It's not realistic to expect an adventurer to not use whatever means are available to them to access the very loot they likely entered the dungeon for in the first place. At least remembering to pack a scroll requires forethought. It's actually really difficult to have this make sense from an IC / IG perspective any way you look at it. Knock scrolls being useable by any class is somewhat sensible, and a much easier change for the development team than most any other option.

pigman
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Re: Chests.

Post by pigman » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:53 am

OR... advertise that you are looking for a lockpick to join you in your hunt and party up with said friendly rogue. Instead of asking for mechanics to change to suit a solo playstyle- change your playstyle to include others.

sincerely, a lonely rogue.

Sea Shanties
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Re: Chests.

Post by Sea Shanties » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:29 am

Flashish wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am
Making knock scrolls useable by any class would go a long way towards stopping chest bashing. A lot of classes either don't get lockpick skills until very late in the game or at all, and cross-classing removes your ability to pick up other things you need.
This assumes chest bashing is somehow a problem needed a solution. I don't think that is the case. Chests here are specifically scripted to leave coins behind, that is not default NWN behavior and it is something we are expected to do. I assume they could also be scripted to be unbashable if that's what the devs wanted.

Whether chests are worthless is another topic. I know a rogue who hits dozens and dozens of low or mid level chests in a day can find some great stuff but the odds are it will be a +1 weapon or random skill item. But the odds have to be low because a rogue can hit dozens and dozens of chests and they can't all be Christmas. Epic chests and drops, that could certainly be more lucrative though.

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Flashish
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Re: Chests.

Post by Flashish » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:10 am

Sea Shanties wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:29 am
Flashish wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am
Making knock scrolls useable by any class would go a long way towards stopping chest bashing. A lot of classes either don't get lockpick skills until very late in the game or at all, and cross-classing removes your ability to pick up other things you need.
This assumes chest bashing is somehow a problem needed a solution. I don't think that is the case. Chests here are specifically scripted to leave coins behind, that is not default NWN behavior and it is something we are expected to do. I assume they could also be scripted to be unbashable if that's what the devs wanted.

Whether chests are worthless is another topic. I know a rogue who hits dozens and dozens of low or mid level chests in a day can find some great stuff but the odds are it will be a +1 weapon or random skill item. But the odds have to be low because a rogue can hit dozens and dozens of chests and they can't all be Christmas. Epic chests and drops, that could certainly be more lucrative though.
I think we are basically in full agreement. I bash chests when no other way to open them exists. If knock scrolls were usable by my druid or for the first 26 levels of my WM, I would use them as a courtesy. But I agree this isn't such a problem that it needs to be addressed immediately. If the chest is empty or bashed, I don't even think about it in game. I just move on.

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Re: Chests.

Post by Drak » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:47 am

Flashish wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:10 am
Sea Shanties wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:29 am
Flashish wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 am
Making knock scrolls useable by any class would go a long way towards stopping chest bashing. A lot of classes either don't get lockpick skills until very late in the game or at all, and cross-classing removes your ability to pick up other things you need.
This assumes chest bashing is somehow a problem needed a solution. I don't think that is the case. Chests here are specifically scripted to leave coins behind, that is not default NWN behavior and it is something we are expected to do. I assume they could also be scripted to be unbashable if that's what the devs wanted.

Whether chests are worthless is another topic. I know a rogue who hits dozens and dozens of low or mid level chests in a day can find some great stuff but the odds are it will be a +1 weapon or random skill item. But the odds have to be low because a rogue can hit dozens and dozens of chests and they can't all be Christmas. Epic chests and drops, that could certainly be more lucrative though.
I think we are basically in full agreement. I bash chests when no other way to open them exists. If knock scrolls were usable by my druid or for the first 26 levels of my WM, I would use them as a courtesy. But I agree this isn't such a problem that it needs to be addressed immediately. If the chest is empty or bashed, I don't even think about it in game. I just move on.
If we are speaking about runic chests, I deeply loathe anyone who breaks them as they are gone until a reset. I don't know why they can't just respawn like the others. :evil:

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Re: Chests.

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:12 am

Durvayas wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:58 pm
Reallylongunneededplayername wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:43 pm
Kuma wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:24 am
having found spell components, time stop scrolls, raise scrolls, +2 [stat] gear, and heaps of other neat stuff in chests, i think this argument is a little outdated
Ayin here has a point, You can find awesome stuff in chest! I have gone through my pre-epics with a few characters on the coin I get from finding Mithril dust, Rare gems and EPIC weapons and other gear in low level dungeons.
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
It's not outdated at all. There are plenty of chests that have empty shields, armor, or +1 gear in it. Sure, I also found a time-stop scroll in the the barbs dungeon, but when was the last time the second chest in the duergar dungeon had anything but trash in it?
Also a really good point, A lot of boss chest have "Junk" in it. Stuff you'd expect in the Cordor sewer, Stuff a Druegar wouldn't even bother putting it in a box.

No idea if chests can be set to drop a certain value of loot? I think it should :/
I'm in agreement. I found a glove with +1 spellcraft and 30 gp in the bottom of the shadow asylum in one of the chests yesterday.
Also found Zinc next to the Phaerimm.


Harder dungeons need sufficient loot in their chests, otherwise there really isn't any point in not circle grinding much lower level dungeons for more gold and more chests.

Additionally, resource nodes next to bosses should have arjale at MINIMUM, if not mithril and adamantine. There is still almost nothing more demoralizing than fighting the juggernaught, or the Phaerimm, or Paush, and seeing that the metal node next to them is utterly worthless. Its the same feeling with finding a chest with 20gp or loot that you wouldn't even hand off to a lowbie.

If the chest is not going to give decent equipment, please at least have it give decent gold and gems, so that running high epic content doesn't feel like a waste of time half the time.
Don't mind me.. Just following up on a sub-conversation.

I honestly keep grinding the Cordor crypts atleast once a week with my epic, Cause: It has the best loot. I get masses and masses of +1 weaponry, There are 9-10 chests, Bunch of traps (I sell those too) and I very often find all sorts of gems, Mithril dust, " the good stuff" and weapons that I could get at average 20k for. I walk out of that Crypt a rich happy graverobber with on average 30k, I do not have to share it, I don't have to spend items to survive it.

I think that if you are doing RDI for sample with 4 people, They should ATLEAST walk out with that for each character. +"Something cool".
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Re: Chests.

Post by Subutai » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Are the chests in epic areas, like RDI, purposefully bad to discourage loot farmers and circle grinders? I'd share an opinion on it, but I'd prefer confirmation one way or another first.

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Re: Chests.

Post by magistrasa » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:18 pm

Chests in the shadow plane are notorously bad - well known to be the worst in their level brackets, consistently rewarding parties with garbage. Not sure if it's true, but I've heard that's because the shadow plane hasn't been updated in a long time, and while rewards have become more valuable in other areas of the server, the shadow plane remains a walkable relic of the past.

Makes my little Sharran soul cry. (#Loss)

Xarge VI
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Re: Chests.

Post by Xarge VI » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:43 pm

I have to disagree. I've found some pretty sweet things in the shadow and other chests as well. Even recently I've found such cool weapons I regret not playing a meleer.

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Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: Chests.

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:05 pm

The amount of times I see iron and zinc at a high-level boss spawn makes me want to rage.
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Re: Chests.

Post by Hazard » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:09 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:05 pm
The amount of times I see iron and zinc at a high-level boss spawn makes me want to rage.
At this point (and I'm being completely honest) if I want zinc, I will just go do a hard boss. I'm serious. It's quicker than running around the module and trying to find zinc. I know it will be behind the juggernaught, so just head right there.

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