Pirates, adamantine, and the issues that are slowly arising around these two

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

Sees mention about Adamantine: " Oh, This intrests me "

Comments: Pirate! pirate-pirate.. PIRATE! pirate. (also: Lol " Pie-Rate" )

Don't get me wrong, #me2 has seen the dangers by pirate attacks (and bravely hid below decks to portal out as the hero that I am)

But.. Adamantine~ (Correct me if I am wrong)

Finding/mining: Hard to go places with a chance of not finding it (Vein being something else/Somebody recently mined it) and if you do, You find 3 chunks?

Buying: about 20k a chunk. (if for sale at all)

That is pretty hard stuff for an ore so hardly needed, I mean, Let's dress up an epic fighter:

We count a 50% chance of a trip delivering 3 chunks of ore.

full plate: 8 chunks
helmet: 2
weapon: 2
shield: 6? ( idunno, lol, We take 6)
Bracer: 2

20 chunks: 14 trips

Not counting random PvP, Unfortunate deaths etc. And the fact all your friends want a cool weapon aswell.

Also, Translate to average cost in shop: 400 000k on Ore.

It isn't " That" bad, Is it?

[Mr_Rieper]

I will speak some on adamantine veins deteriorating in the second half of the post, but first I want to focus on what I was able to test alone; Renting a boat and setting out to sea.

The Pirates
So as its against my nature to present problems unless there is a potential solution, here are two suggestions;

1) A setting through the navigator to actually try to avoid pirates that would make boat on boat encounters far less frequent. It shouldn't guarantee that there will be no pirate encounters, but it will actually happen at a bit more realistic level then just being a guarantee if pirates are on.

2) Boarding a pc ship triggers a high chance of a super powered spawn of Cordorians attacking the pirate ship, the more ships you board in a reset period the higher the chances are, making them decide if its actually worth the risk. This one would be a bit more tricky as you would need to figure out how to stop them from just hiding below, but it might be interesting if done right.

Adamantine Veins

Getting back on topic, as this is clearly not a thread criticizing pirates.

I think the first thing has merit, second thing not so much. It might be nice if there as a dinky little boat that wasn't subjected to pirates, as most pirates would realistically ignore it. The setting on the navigator? Not so much. The thing with the boats is that it's all 100% automated "movement" across the water. You can't actually see where you are on the Isle. Are you sailing near Wharftown or Guldorand? They are on opposite sides of the Isle. But you don't know this because the system can't reflect it. Which is both good and bad. Good because it's a theatre of the mind thing, and bad because there are no exact locations. If there were exact locations, you could realistically avoid pirates, but instead they are searching for everything on any location around the Isle, all at once. Being able to circumvent that by just choosing an option seems a little cheap.

Having NPCs spawn on top of grappled pirate ships seems like a recipe for disaster. I don't like the idea of some automated protection system engaging because the ship has been grappled, especially if it's a player vs player thing. Plus, you could accidentally be killed by the npcs that spawn, if you do something that causes them to hostile. Not much protection going on there. The pirates may also be hostile to all of their friendly NPCs when they arrive back in port.

I think the adamantine vein thing has already been answered multiple times in the thread.

For commentary on the pirates? I don't see anything majorly wrong with what is happening. Once again, a bunch of players has flocked to a location because of mechanical rewards and potential for fresh RP. While it gets tiring watching the landslide of players move from one side of the server to the other, there is actually nothing wrong with it. They are interacting with their environment and behaving like pirates would. And if the seas are really that dangerous, the rest of the settlements need to react or respond to it. The OP mentioned he doesn't really have a problem with this, and that's okay. I don't think anybody should. IC issues should be resolved IC.

[Baseili]

Babylon is not critizising pirates, no, instead Babylon is asking to marginalize them instead. The short version of his original post can be summed up as:

"I have no trouble with pirates, I want to get adamantine but the surface stuff is being camped by other players and the sea has pirates, here are my ideas to avoid/protect again them. Also stop people circle grinding it."

As proof, if we remove the mention of pirates and the respective systems from the suggestions we get:

1. A setting so evil/bandit characters have a harder time seeing/detecting non evil.
2. Add a chance to spawn powerful knights when attacked by evil/bandits.

Does the first idea still have merit once applied to the server as a whole?

[Mr_Rieper]

Babylon is not critizising pirates, no, instead Babylon is asking to marginalize them instead. The short version of his original post can be summed up as:
1. A setting so evil/bandit characters have a harder time seeing/detecting non evil.
2. Add a chance to spawn powerful knights when attacked by evil/bandits.

Well yes, but actually no. He's asking for a way for small-fry to head under the radar. This isn't about good vs evil. And if you think about it, it actually makes sense. Why would bandits go after tiny targets when there are bigger fish to hunt down? Aren't you trying to get a better payout for your time? What's the point in wasting time locking down targets that have such a minimal amount of money that you can't leave until you've either enslaved or ransomed them? Clearly the pirates in his example were a bit disappointed with the amount of money they got as well.

Second point, same as the first. What is the point of hunting down small fry when they have nothing valuable to offer you? The suggestion, albeit misguided, was a way to equalize the encounter. What if killing those npcs earned you a reward of 100 000g? Would you be as indignant he even dared suggest a way to even the scales? Would we be complaining of unfairness then?

If you come into these threads with a chip on your shoulder, that is EXACTLY what everybody else will see reflected in your words. This isn't a team good vs team evil situation, this is a "Surely this must be boring for everybody involved?" situation. If you have no issue with it, that's fine. Express that and why, maybe people will agree with you.

My opinion on the matter is that if groups of players are doing a thing, it will require groups of players to interfere with it. Or perhaps everybody should just avoid sailing until the pirates aren't as enthusiastic about sailing. Either way works and makes sense IC. Get some protection, form a group of like-minded individuals who are willing to share the adamantine in exchange for mutual protection from the bandits. There is safety in numbers, if it's dangerous alone and you don't have a way to negotiate with the pirates, you need to get one. Maybe a badge or some special writ of protection from the Sencliff factions.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I didn't rent the boat to go get adamantine by myself, I rented the boat because already people are refusing to go out to sea because of pirates and I wanted to see how bad it actually was. As a level 24 character with no UMD yet, I couldn't solo the well known location if I wanted to and I have no idea where the other vein is yet oocly or what I would face. It was all really done on a whim after attempts to get a group of whoever to go out to sea failed due to fear of pirate interaction and I saw one of the islands rentals open for once. Getting a group of level 30s together ready to wtf pwn any pirates we come across is easy, I just think that if that's the only option for sea travel its going to be bad for everyone, including the pirates who only get to come across groups ready to slaughter them. But if they keep abusing the situations where they have a clear and overwhelming advantage, that's what it's going to come down too. I'm not saying all pirates do that, I'm just saying that's the rep its getting and within ten minutes was my experience as well.

And reading your post, you are right Mr Rieper, idea two was not well thought out. I was just trying to come up with a way to represent that pirates realistically should be trying to avoid the vastly more powerful naval forces out and about. That's not really represented unless something has changed since I played a pirate myself, and I was looking for a way to add that layer to the game. Rereading it does make it sound like its meant as a punishment for doing what pirates do, and that was not my intent.

Also, I could care less if people circle grind adamantine, save for the fact that the way the mines deteriorate (If what I was told how it works is correct)) it means that anyone who is not racing to the mines after a reset are SOL. Like I said, I get why the system was put in place, but its only really served to hurt the average player that wants to get a group together through ic means and go find one of the most important resources in the game. I figure finding a way to make it so a player could actually only get a particular vein once per reset would average out the amount available while opening it up to everyone as opposed to those who have the time and ability to bum rush it every reset.

[xanrael]

I don't know how the current detection system works, but maybe something like the following for rented boats:

Your chance of detection by pirates is inversely proportional to the time you have left on the rent. I'll just pretend it is a straight d20 roll so maybe the DC for finding a ship is 10+1/2 the hours left on the rental. So a ship that has 12 hours left would be a DC 16. Would make short excursions unlikely to encounter pirates while long ones would have a much higher chance both in more rolls made and in a lower DC over time. Also add the option to not be evasive for people that want to be found by pirates and their DC is set to 10. Please don't get caught up in the specifics of this example, just illustrating what I mean with this thought.

On the whole NPC defense thing, I'm not even sure that makes sense from an RP perspective. I'd picture NPC navies putting a priority on protecting merchant vessels between settlements instead of unclaimed islands out in open water. The imaginary NPC merchants probably need more protecting than what amount to elite strike teams whose gains go into their own pockets without the gov't getting a slice. Why would the navy risk their lives protecting these people going outside their sphere of influence when it gets nothing directly from their success?

[RedGiant]

I think one of the main problems here is the ship distribution on the Isle. Between Sencliff, the Crow's Nest, and Andunor, most of the ships are in the hands of ne'er-do-wells (or at least open to them). The largest city on the server has one official boat and a rental. Heck the naval power of the mine-dwelling Dwarves is on par with it. So, if you are a sea-faring "norm", your chances of a negative interaction around Arelith is quite high, to the point that the current distribution makes it seem more like Nelanthar than anything else.

Perhaps with Irongron's preview of hak-goodness the team has something in mind for this.

[Xarge VI]

I think it's good that there are many pc encounters at the sea. Everything else is a matter of player conduct in hostile situations.

Nothing forces pirates to engage in PvP or vice versa. From my days of Yarrrp I can advice planning the demands beforehand and using -subdual.

I've had great rp come from basic raiding of pc ships because I used -subdual that otherwise would've been just a PvP.

And I had a basic tax of 500-1000gp per person I demanded from the victims (unless they were Amnian scum.). You can make the big bucks by pvm. Raiding pc ships I always reserved to be about furthering a story regardless of characters intentions.

[Cerk Evermoore]

I think one of the main problems here is the ship distribution on the Isle. Between Sencliff, the Crow's Nest, and Andunor, most of the ships are in the hands of ne'er-do-wells (or at least open to them). The largest city on the server has one official boat and a rental. Heck the naval power of the mine-dwelling Dwarves is on par with it. So, if you are a sea-faring "norm", your chances of a negative interaction around Arelith is quite high, to the point that the current distribution makes it seem more like Nelanthar than anything else.

Perhaps with Irongron's preview of hak-goodness the team has something in mind for this.

Anyone who sails the seas and underestimates the Flagship is in for a bad surprise. It's the most dangerous ship on the seas.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I have read this thread, and I have only four words.

Cordor rules the seas!

[RedGiant]

Yes, we all love The Undaunted. However, ship distribution is a thing IMO. What if we had only six guild houses in the game, three of them were reserved for bandit PCs, and any time you used a road in the module...Bandit PCs had a flat chance to teleport in on you for shenanigans?

To the point of the OP, this is kind of the ship system on Arelith.