Drow Nobility

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ChevroletElvis
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Drow Nobility

Post by ChevroletElvis » Tue May 21, 2019 1:38 pm

Nobility is listed as a minor gift on the wiki. This is an excellent framework for setting up drow role-play the way it should be. Drow nobles should be played by a player that has a minor gift, and drow commoners/slaves should be played by anyone that wants to. I humbly provide the feedback that this framework be enforced.
Last edited by ChevroletElvis on Tue May 21, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DM Atropos
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by DM Atropos » Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm

This is not feedback, this is a suggestion. Please use this forum for its intended purpose. Thank you!
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Durvayas » Tue May 21, 2019 2:39 pm

ChevroletElvis wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:38 pm
Nobility is listed as a minor gift on the wiki. This is an excellent framework for setting up drow role-play the way it should be. Drow nobles should be played by a player that has a minor gift, and drow commoners/slaves should be played by anyone that wants to. I humbly suggest that this framework be enforced.
Impractical. Drow social mobility is so drastic that the gift simply wouldn't work with the culture of the drow as played on arelith. You'll find that if you have a PC that claims to be noble, that goes up to someone and demands they bow, you're going to find your PC in the fugue very quickly. Nobility with Arelith drow is a mix of class(usually clergy, with some exceptions) and influence. Be influencial, have a cadre of minions, and people will recognise nobility.

Command respect, don't demand it.
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ChevroletElvis
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by ChevroletElvis » Tue May 21, 2019 2:46 pm

DM Atropos wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm
This is not feedback, this is a suggestion. Please use this forum for its intended purpose. Thank you!
Edited it to fit the forum. Thank you.

ChevroletElvis
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by ChevroletElvis » Tue May 21, 2019 4:12 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:39 pm
ChevroletElvis wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:38 pm
Nobility is listed as a minor gift on the wiki. This is an excellent framework for setting up drow role-play the way it should be. Drow nobles should be played by a player that has a minor gift, and drow commoners/slaves should be played by anyone that wants to. I humbly suggest that this framework be enforced.
Impractical. Drow social mobility is so drastic that the gift simply wouldn't work with the culture of the drow as played on arelith. You'll find that if you have a PC that claims to be noble, that goes up to someone and demands they bow, you're going to find your PC in the fugue very quickly. Nobility with Arelith drow is a mix of class(usually clergy, with some exceptions) and influence. Be influencial, have a cadre of minions, and people will recognise nobility.

Command respect, don't demand it.
The feedback was more a comment on an excellent game mechanic, that already exists, that could enhance noble AND commoner role-play for drow. I agree that it would be impractical to force all current noble drow to remake characters that have noble gifts. Having it hard coded so NPCs pay nobles different respect to nobles than to commoners would very much enhance the role-play.

I don't feel that my feedback is in any way a judgement on how people role-play their drow currently, or how people should role-play. I just feel that this amazing mechanical feature could, and should, be used to enhance drow role-play.

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Mr_Rieper
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Mr_Rieper » Wed May 22, 2019 12:03 pm

Nobility should never be something that other players are forced or coerced into acknowledging.

When your noble character starts, they start with nothing - just like everybody else. No influence, no experience, no ability to exert anything over anybody. The gift is there to influence YOUR roleplay, not everybody else's. The DMs should be the only ones who can see your character is actually noble, and possibly have the DM NPCs acknowledge it. Y'know, the kind of NPC that disappears after the event is done, and is not a persistent feature of the server.

If NPCs reacted differently to your noble character, it could be used to prove that your character is noble mechanically. Then you'll have noble characters taking people to see NPCs and demonstrating that they are noble by the dialogue options, then demanding that the other characters treat them as if they are noble - all without RPing anything noble at all. It's not a mechanical bonus you can beat people over the head with until they respond to you in the way that you want. And the moment that it becomes that is the moment that I have lost hope for noble RP on the server. From there it's just a slow descent into convenient noble gifts in order to be treated differently, and noble RP loses all of its charm.

If you want to be treated like a noble, you MUST act like one and people actually believe it. This is the basis of roleplay, a fundamental part of playing on this server. There are no shortcuts, no feel-good bonuses. If you cannot handle this and have no interest in playing the part, do not take the noble gift.

Power resides where men believe it resides. The NPCs should not help you prove you are a noble. Your RP should do that on its own.
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Gobbo Champion Inc » Sat May 25, 2019 11:33 pm

Only thats not how nobility works. It has little do with how one behaves, and everything to do with being born into privilege and prestige. There may be ideals attached, but that is not how it is in effect irl, or in the FR.

I can definitely see storytelling, and interesting and compelling story being born as a result of nobility either from the background, or those that take the feat, meaning more. Like having best houses or guildhalls reserved for them.

Players can claim to be nobles until the cows come home, but unless they actually are either by IC recognition by a legitimate source, or with mechanical backing its limited to what others will play along with. You can claim to be a swordsman of great power, but unless you have the feats, stats, and gear to back it up, it means nothing, and is blatantly false. Why should noble blood be any different.

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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sun May 26, 2019 1:06 am

It's a balance, but to some degree, but I have to agree with OP. Until it can be mechanically represented, it doesn't mean anything.

That's why it's already like that.

"Access to the Noble Award. This award currently grants Silver Palm as well as certain NPCs will recognize your nobility, sometimes granting you access to noble only perks." - Wiki

I don't know what those are, but I'm certain drow flavor could be added to make things more interesting.
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Royal Blood » Sun May 26, 2019 1:11 am

Being born a noble is a thing for sure. I think players should be cool about acknowledging it. I think we gotta be sure to not allow OOC noble perceptions to influence us to heavily.

I like the idea that nobility is something you ought to respect. I feel like a lot of characters are rebels but if someone is noble born someone in their family line dsererved it. I'd consider anyone who won settlement leadership to be a noble even after that has passed too.

As per the request here and Drow society the devs have said they plan better boons for noble rewards. As far as the UD goes? I play some Drow, I always assume another drow female is of noble rank unless I learn otherwise. It's better not to risk it! Ultimately UD is very much so a might makes right sort of place. So what if you're a noble, if you don't have support your status is empty. Still I think the idea if you have a reward for being a noble? You get some extra validation. But it is up to you to RP that validation.
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by xanrael » Sun May 26, 2019 2:41 am

In general Arelith drow Houses are self formed as opposed to any of the Houses from the lore. They're effectively self-made nobility as opposed to appointed nobility because that's how Arelith drow culture works. A "gift of drow nobility" would basically just be that your PC was someone of importance from a House from lore and very very far from their sphere of influence.

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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by RedGiant » Sun May 26, 2019 4:06 am

wiki.arelith.com wrote:Nobles:

Noble is a background that implies that the character belongs to a manner or another of aristocracy. Additionally, Noble characters receive the Silver Palm feat.

Certain NPCs will recognize Noble characters, sometimes granting you access to noble only perks. You can choose any other background , this operates separately from the background system, so if you see First Last (Background, Soldier) after picking noble, do not be alarmed.

A character may become a noble using a Minor Award or taking the Epic Reputation feat, although you do not get the silver palm feat the latter way. Noble is a background in name only; a character that becomes a noble, either taking the feat or at creation, can still take any other background that they normally qualify for.

Ergo, even "mechanical nobility" can be latter obtained. While I do admit that many amongst the Drow function as "rp nobility", I think ideally the two systems converge. Perhaps we could entertain some ways to make that happen? For example, I think that leaders of settlements may already count for certain intra-settlement perks. If they don't, perhaps this is a way to go. Moreover, perhaps this could be expanded to leaders of influential factions within a settlement.

I don't propose that we give them the feats permanently, since, as mentioned above, there are ways for them to obtain these already if players desire. But if you want noble power dependent on status, fine...earn it, then have it reflected in the settlement system.

We could then relegate the silly, self-proclaimed nobility with the regard we might those who trumpet themselves as "King/Queen of the Sewers".
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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Ork » Sun May 26, 2019 4:38 am

This is challenging because taking a feat or background does not automatically defer your character any laurels. You could take "Epic Reputation", but if your character hasn't done anything to be known of, then the majority of players could literally care less - and that's the way it should be with any sort of social status.

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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Mr_Rieper » Sun May 26, 2019 10:47 am

Gobbo Champion Inc wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 11:33 pm
Only thats not how nobility works. It has little do with how one behaves, and everything to do with being born into privilege and prestige. There may be ideals attached, but that is not how it is in effect irl, or in the FR.

I can definitely see storytelling, and interesting and compelling story being born as a result of nobility either from the background, or those that take the feat, meaning more. Like having best houses or guildhalls reserved for them.

Players can claim to be nobles until the cows come home, but unless they actually are either by IC recognition by a legitimate source, or with mechanical backing its limited to what others will play along with. You can claim to be a swordsman of great power, but unless you have the feats, stats, and gear to back it up, it means nothing, and is blatantly false. Why should noble blood be any different.

No, that is how it works in RL because there was some precedent for it. On a server with no RP precedent established (Which there really isn't), it's just another mechanical reward. You can go on and on about nobility in theory, but on Arelith, where your character starts as a nobody unless you have OOC contacts who will recognise him? That is not how nobility should work. Once again, there have been no noble systems established through RP. There is no framework in RP. Nobody cares, at this current point in time, that your character was born special. This is Forgotten Realms, there could be dozens of reasons why your character was born special in some form or another. The vast majority of those are not given any special attention either. Nobody really cares that you have sorcerer powers, so why should they care when you stamp your feet and demand attention or rewards for being a foreign noble? We don't even pay much attention to tieflings or aasimar with angel wings after the first encounter, and they were born that way too. You are not an exceptional character just because you took a gift.

Every single settlement uses a democratic system with elected leaders, with Brog arguably being the exception due to how their leaders are groomed into the role and stay there for a long time. Even the dwarves don't care that your character is a noble. You cannot just inject your ideas of what nobility should be into the server through ham-fisted mechanics and expect it to be compelling or worth paying attention to. It's up to players to build it up from the ground and have the admins support it with a framework, just like many of the things that we enjoy on the server.


TL:DR - You want more noble things? Do more noble things. Be noble. Create environments where nobility thrives or political factions that push for an aristocratic government system. Don't just take a gift and wait with your hand out for people to care about it.
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Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

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Re: Drow Nobility

Post by Jack Oat » Sun May 26, 2019 11:09 am

It'd be kind of neat to be able to attach something to your viewable description (e.g. when someone examines you) that says like "This person wears a signet ring, marking them as someone of nobility." Make it toggle-able somehow like -noble or w/e so you can "wear it" or not, but that way you can flex in RP with a backed mechanical claim.
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Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm
This is not feedback, this is a suggestion. Please use this forum for its intended purpose. Thank you!
As an aside, when can we expect to see the Suggestions forum opened back up?

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