PG-13 and what it actually means based on definition

[Dagonlives]

I've had concerns lately with how the perceptions of Arelith have come to inhibit mature or interesting roleplay. I've observed players and Dungeon Masters leaning towards the more "PG' side of things, which does not fit the Dungeons and Dragons setting as an ethos.

I would like a mature discussion on this, because in a setting with drow, murder, misandry, in-built racism, undead corpses, monster cannibalism, depicted torture racks, and severed heads, it's pretty obvious that Arelith leans more towards the more permissible side of PG-13 then the lesser permissible PG side. (And this is by no means an exhaustive list.)

If arelith does not lean towards the more permissble side of PG-13, I would like to see the following removed:

-Slavery

-Severed heads

- Reference to drinking, drugs, poisons, or seedy Baator taverns that allow you to go spend time with the Hell-wenches upstairs.

- Any reference to torture or body mutilation

-The entire monster list of races as player characters

I am getting tired of having to skirt the line with what appears to be a very grey area definition of how to roleplay 'In an appropriate manner.' with what, from my perspective has been a misinterpretation of an american rating system that has already been grey-area to begin with. (Marvel Movies scoring PG ratings for the kiddies despite being nothing close to that comes to mind)


So here's a definition of what's allowed, for player reference, according to our favorite encyclopedia:


Rated G: General Audiences – all ages admitted
Rated PG: Parental Guidance Suggested – some material may not be suitable for children
Rated PG-13: Parents Strongly Cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under 13
Rated R: Restricted – under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian
Rated NC-17: No one 17 and under admitted



What is permitted under the PG-13 Rating:

Profanity may be present in PG rated films, and use of one of the harsher "sexually-derived words" as an expletive will initially incur at least a PG-13 rating.

Depictions of intense violence are permitted under the PG-13 rating, but violence that is both realistic and extreme or persistent will generally require at least an R rating.

Drug use content is restricted to PG-13 and above.

Nudity is restricted to PG and above, and anything that constitutes more than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating. Nudity that is sexually oriented will generally require an R rating.

Conclusion:

It's easy to conclude from this list that aside the most graphic depictions of violence (Read, gore, disgusting descriptions) and depicted, explicit sexual content, that PG-13 is actually a pretty flexible rating.

Feedback is appreciated.

[TimeAdept]

before this conversation can go anywhere you first need to say what RP you need to be able to do on server that you currently aren't allowed to do

[strong yeet]

NAE ERPIN

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

I always found Arelith and PG-13 rating extreemly difficult,

Cause every country has it's different rule set on it.

From what I understand is that Areliths PG-13 is American style " We can't handle bad words and nudity" but everything else for RP and setting sake is allowed, Unless you go so far into detail that it is gore.

Sample:

PG-Arelith: Jim cuts of Jacks finger.

To far: Jim slowly presses the dull blade into Jacks finger, Crushing it's bone till the finger finally falls off.

Correct me if wrong.

[The Rambling Midget]

It's based on the US PG-13 rating, so yeah, sex is less acceptable, violence, if not gratuitous, is more acceptable, and language is in kind of a gray area of perceived appropriateness.

The thing is that you can actually do a lot of story telling through implication, without having to go into anything more than minor detail. The story still happens, and players can still respond to it, but without having to be dragged through every potentially uncomfortable detail.

Since the Marvel movies were brought up, there's a ton of death and killing in those, but you'll notice that there's never blood spray or bloodsoaked, mutilated human corpses all over the ground, or gory wounds. The bodies are there, but in low detail, and only as a backdrop and context for what's happening in the foreground. The focus always remains on continuing the narrative. You'll never see an up close Saving Private Ryan shot of a terrified boy screaming for "momma" while he desperately tries to push his intestines back into his profusely bleeding abdomen next to a pile of severed limbs and twisted dead faces in a Marvel movie.

[ReverentBlade]

Aint nothing PG-13 about Lower Cordor, I'll say that much.

[DM Atropos]

It's based on the US PG-13 rating, so yeah, sex is less acceptable, violence, if not gratuitous, is more acceptable, and language is in kind of a gray area of perceived appropriateness.

The thing is that you can actually do a lot of story telling through implication, without having to go into anything more than minor detail. The story still happens, and players can still respond to it, but without having to be dragged through every potentially uncomfortable detail.

Since the Marvel movies were brought up, there's a ton of death and killing in those, but you'll notice that there's never blood spray or bloodsoaked, mutilated human corpses all over the ground, or gory wounds. The bodies are there, but in low detail, and only as a backdrop and context for what's happening in the foreground. The focus always remains on continuing the narrative. You'll never see an up close Saving Private Ryan shot of a terrified boy screaming for "momma" while he desperately tries to push his intestines back into his profusely bleeding abdomen next to a pile of severed limbs and twisted dead faces in a Marvel movie.

This is, imo, the PERFECT explanation.

Also, so far as sex goes, I look at it as, if it's not appropriate in a grocery store, it's not appropriate here. Kissing, hugging, handholding, professing love? Sure! Full on making out/sexy elven fun times in the freezer section? Nope.

[ReverentBlade]

Hate to be sassy, but are you often killing bandits and summoning demons in grocery stores? That would freak me out a heck of a lot more than two people making out by the turkeys.

[xanrael]

I've always felt the main thing is no E.R.P. The worst situation is to have a minor behind the PC and be flagged as a site that endorses pedophiles and them preying on minors using Arelith as a medium to start.

Going a bit too far on the violence or harsh language end is something that can be discussed as generally we don't worry about people actually using Arelith as a method to pursue those practices in real life.

[Cortex]

Because if the parents of a minor find out about something naughty in the online game he's playing. Things get weird, or something. There was a fiasco about it years ago.

Lots of teenagers play the game, and are pretty capable roleplayers (even if the base game itself has a 18 age req? I don't honestly remember). I started playing Arelith when I was 14 or 15 ten years ago, and I know of other players in the same boat from back then, and I'm sure there's at least a few now.

As far as storytelling goes, you can use extremes as a mean of storytelling, but usually extremes don't add to a story more than what something more basic would (other than perhaps impact). If sexy elven fun times was ever allowed, things would get stupid, people have ERPed on Arelith since the dawn of time even when the rules strictly forbid it.

[The Rambling Midget]

Full on making out/sexy elven fun times in the freezer section? Nope.

Which grocery store is this? I need to know, so I can... avoid it.

[-XXX-]

It is strongly advised to abstain from incorporating any strong language or explicit sexual content into a character's storyline as they are beating the heck out of all the homeless people who are struggling with mental health issues in the sewers of Cordor

[Halibutthead]

so far as sex goes,

Hate to be sassy, but are you often killing bandits and summoning demons in grocery stores? That would freak me out a heck of a lot more than two people making out by the turkeys.

i don't know if i should poke fun at your reading comprehension or worry about you consider foreplay

[Vincent]

No monster races? wut

[Berried]

It's weird to see this thread coming from this specific player, who I recognize as the mind behind one of the most memorable, established, intimidating antagonists on the server. I'm sorry to hear that you're growing tired of skirting the line between what themes are and aren't too dark for Arelith, but AFAIK you're one of the players who have a unique talent for doing exactly that.

Anyway in addition to not being excessively graphic, it probably helps to read the room and adjust accordingly. Robbing, enslaving, and tormenting characters is generally allowed in the macrocosm of the server, but if things are going in that direction and it seems like no one is having fun, I can always just find someone else to pursue that narrative with. Some people want to play more Discworld-esque plotlines, and that's fine.

Likewise, if you put out a particularly gritty, ASOIAF/Warhammer toned narrative hook, and the other players really pursue it, it's probably safe to indulge them further. I think (though I'm not sure?) that if the DMs see you're genuinely trying to build something memorable and compelling for everyone around you, they aren't going to instantly permaban you for exploring those themes.

[MorallyGrey]

[Ebonstar]

I have had a character literally skin another during a torture session, and in another injected acid into a heretics head for a chemical lobotomy

removed limbs during interogations, and so forth.

the line drawn is this, you are playing within a group you play with alot, be it friend or foe so you can get to feel how far things can go without breaking the line.

the skinned half orc was released after being healed and returned to the surface, the lobotomy toon is still alive and kicking as an antagonist, and the removed limbs were regrown with magic etc

I was told about this years ago by the DM team at the time, always make sure whatever will happen that might ride the line, is consented by the other player and make sure it still creates fun for both sides.

I think the PG13 movie system is not what should be used more like lets do a PG13 Arelith Rating system that can be put in the wiki in clean and precise terms for perfect clarity.

why is that my thought, because this isnt a movie being judged by a panel of critics who have nothing better to do than rate movies

but besides keeping adult sexual content far far away which it needs to be and those who play for such reasons, we are doing just fine here as is

besides who hasnt at least once yelled in a settlement "Holy Crap a naked Half Orc" that isnt really naked

[Let Love In]

My personal benchmark is Doctor Who. Massive bisexual flirting? Fine, thanks Captain jack. Captive rp, discussing being dissected whilst still awake? Fine, Amy Pond. Slavery? Fine, Ood. Kidnapping children and raising them to be assassins? Fine, River Song. Drugs? Fine, weird cat planet. Skinning people and wearing their hides as flesh suits? Fine, Raxacoricofallapatorians.

I am a geek.

[Lady Astray]

If you're making Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs look tame, I think you need to take a step back and chill. Pretty sure that movie was rated R and it wasn't even that graphic. This thread has done nothing but remind me why I do not partake in any form of capture/torture RP.

[Opustus]

If I could have something changed, I'd really like to broaden the swear word vocabulary. Swearing comes off as vulgar, coarse, sometimes threatening, and losing that expression often makes my thuggish characters kind of toothless. Swearing euphemestically makes one sound like a cartoon character. Swearing too liberately grates on people's sensibilities OOC but that's a part of its likable effect to me. Piss and shite are the farthest I've dared to tread, but so far no-one has scolded me.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Swearing comes off as vulgar, coarse, sometimes threatening, and losing that expression often makes my thuggish characters kind of toothless.

While I agree that we should be a little more liberal with profanity on this server, I'd like to say that swearing only rarely comes over as threatening in online roleplaying environments. It usually comes across as trying to hard.

Much like the fountains-of-blood-and-ultraviolence combat emotes, or basically any description of torture... Or ee-arr-pee... It's mostly just boring.

Violence, swearing, sex, drug use and so on, when being placed in environments like this, are subject to diminishing returns. The occasional "F--", or boob, or inhalation of mordayn vapour, or passing act of violence are useful atmosphere building tools. They evoke something - And that's really useful. But if any of those things or overdone, or too much emphasis is placed on them, or they're used to try to be "shocking", the writer comes over as infantile, fixated, tasteless and stupid.

This isn't a "oh won't someone think of the children" statement, but rather... "Won't someone think of the adults who have to put up with the horseshit the children write" statement.

[Kuma]

Swearing comes off as vulgar, coarse, sometimes threatening, and losing that expression often makes my thuggish characters kind of toothless.

While I agree that we should be a little more liberal with profanity on this server, I'd like to say that swearing does rarely comes over as threatening in online roleplaying environments. It usually comes across as trying to hard.

Much like the fountains-of-blood-and-ultraviolence combat emotes, or basically any description of torture... Or ee-arr-pee... It's mostly just boring.

Violence, swearing, sex, drug use and so on, when being placed in environments like this, are subject to diminishing returns. The occasional "F--", or boob, or inhalation of mordayn vapour, or passing act of violence are useful atmosphere building tools. They evoke something - And that's really useful. But if any of those things or overdone, or too much emphasis is placed on them, or they're used to try to be "shocking", the writer comes over as infantile, fixated, tasteless and stupid.

This isn't a "oh won't someone think of the children" statement, but rather... "Won't someone think of the adults who have to put up with the horseshit the children write" statement.

i agree with this post very strongly

a well-placed f-bomb can have a very, very satisfying effect if done right. it's just that a lot of people can't be trusted to do it right, hey.

[Opustus]

Meh, I'd be less concerned policing the proper form of swearing and more concerned letting people be tasteless in your opinion and edgy in their own. My post was short, but swearing has a range of applications aside from seeming or attempting to seem threatening. A lot of the bad sides of swearing you listed sound appealing to me, like embarrassing oneself, seeming stupid or "trying too hard". They sound like exquisite literary devices.

[Aodh Lazuli]

A lot of the bad sides of swearing you listed sound appealing to me, like embarrassing oneself, seeming stupid or "trying too hard". They sound like exquisite literary devices.

They are exquisite literary devices, provided the intention is to make a character that is trying too hard or embarrassing themselves within the bounds of the fiction.

But lets be perfectly fair here, not many professional writers have control over that sort of nuance. An embarrassing and cringe-inducing character is different from an embarrassing and cringe-inducing writer. It is all about the level of (self)awareness the writer possesses.

The internet isn't exactly known for its abundance of that.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

My personal benchmark is Doctor Who. Massive bisexual flirting? Fine, thanks Captain jack. Captive rp, discussing being dissected whilst still awake? Fine, Amy Pond. Slavery? Fine, Ood. Kidnapping children and raising them to be assassins? Fine, River Song. Drugs? Fine, weird cat planet. Skinning people and wearing their hides as flesh suits? Fine, Raxacoricofallapatorians.

I am a geek.

As fellow geek, I like this one.