RE: Scheduled Server Wide Meeting

[Ork]

First, I want to say thank the developers and DM team for organizing the meeting. Communication between the developers and the player-base will always be an ongoing investment, and I appreciate the opening lines of communication this meeting's intent fostered. I regret that I was unable to attend, but I did read through the logs extensively. However, while doing so I think the meeting created more questions in my mind than answered. I hope it is appropriate here to ask a few follow-up questions to the developers and the player-base.

There were a number of events that lead up to the community-wide meeting that I want to touch on before delving deeper. I think one of the precipitating events involved the change to the Outcasts. A long discussion and feedback allowed the community to digest the change, and overall good or bad, we were able to (for the most part) engage in the discussion with civility. Another discussion sparked around PvP rules, and a concise wording by Scurvy helped ground us all (hopefully) in a better understanding of that particular rule. And last, there was mention of growing conflict in "Hubs" of roleplay that came out specifically through Irongron's comments at the meeting.

My questions are as follows:

• Did the server-wide meeting answer the concerns of both the developer-team and the player-base efficiently?
• What other events, besides the ones I've listed, led the team to decide on a sever-wide meeting?
• Have we answered the underlying issues that prompted this meeting in the first place?
• What are our next steps?

My goal in this is to really understand the heart of the issue that prompted the dev-team to hold this server-wide meeting, to gather information that may be pertinent to the player-base, and to wonder if we should expect this form of communication from the team in the future.

Let's keep it civil, yeah?

[Nitro]

Personally I'm a bit disappointed how shafted Europeans got for both the meeting times. First late at night before a workday and then mid-morning on a workday. There's no way I'd have been able to attend either without taking a day of work for it, which would have been a bit absurd.

[CosmicOrderV]

While I think the intent was well-meant, I don't think you missed out on much, Nitro, nor anyone in other time-zones. Like Ork said, I think the meeting made more questions than it answered. Alas, a big part of this was due to the rushed nature of it all. Many questions weren't really given their due course, simply because it would have taken a ridiculous amount of time to answer everything. At the very least, it was a good starting place, and I definitely look forward to better organized meetings in the future.

One of those questions in particular, that I would have been curious to see answered, was in regards to what appears as a long standing double standard of conduct for the surface versus the underdark. Talk of not wanting to see mass pvp in "hub" areas, despite that being an accepted norm of the UD, really just feels like the surface issue surrounding the Tower is being coddled, and is a non-issue. Had it happened in the UD, we would have been fine with it, and us players would have dealt with it ourselves.

[Kreydis]

I honestly suggest people read a transcript of the Q&A. Some very important topics were covered. Not all answered completely. But honest discussion is a very valuable thing.

[Royal Blood]

I think the Staff has -always- expressed that they do not want mass PVP in hubs. Especially in Andunor. I remember when I was playing my drow there was a huge event regarding the merchants in the Hub getting tired of fights breaking out. So they have gone to some lengths to prevent it. I think that PVP happens more often in the Hub isn't because the UD is more PVP hungry but because there is like -only- the Hub for people to meet. On the surface there are a lot of other settlements for people to PVP each other at. For example, street slaughters in Cordor are semi regular. My current character has seen them happen three times.

I do agree the step in to force PVP away from the Tower was a mistake though. And honestly it changes absolutely nothing. War does not = rage PVP fights constantly. It never has. The Arcane Tower sees plenty of PVP as is -without- war declarations just because it happens to be a place where people with different ideals bump into each other often.

I think it the Staff wants to enforce areas of no mass PVP then they should create a solid IC reason why that is the case. Like if the Arcane Tower had a self defense field that paralyzes people if they begin fighting. I think injecting NPC's that declare anyone who declares war on the tower gets removed from office was a -really really- bad move.

I wasn't able to make it to the meeting, but my question would be about PVP too. Except that I think they should remove death from PVP on the first subdue.. If you lose all your HP to PVP the first phase should be a subdued phase where you're weakened in place for X amount of time just like laying there on the ground. They can choose to 'bash you' which would just kill you like normal.

I think it is paramount to RP and IC interactions that people don't die everytime a fight breaks out. I think being Subdued first as a result of pvp makes -much- more sense then straight up killing and returning to life.

[xanrael]

I wasn't able to make it to the meeting, but my question would be about PVP too. Except that I think they should remove death from PVP on the first subdue.. If you lose all your HP to PVP the first phase should be a subdued phase where you're weakened in place for X amount of time just like laying there on the ground. They can choose to 'bash you' which would just kill you like normal.

I think it is paramount to RP and IC interactions that people don't die everytime a fight breaks out. I think being Subdued first as a result of pvp makes -much- more sense then straight up killing and returning to life.

I always liked how another server did it where you had a subdue mode that worked with everything (swords, spells, etc) without being any more difficult than normal. I get that it isn't too "realistic", but then again being back 5 minutes later from a self rez isn't any more realistic. Subdue mode was also toggled on by default and so you needed to toggle it off on a server restart/login, which helped with accidental TKs from misclicks.

At the end of the day though the loser is in control of what the PvP means. Subdue, kill, kill + bash, none of it really matters if the loser doesn't incorporate it into their RP. And you can say "well they should do so" but on the other hand if the instigator/winner of the PvP just did the bare minimum of RP before PvP, not even thinking of making it an engaging experience, they shouldn't expect the loser to put in more effort than them.

[Royal Blood]

I wasn't able to make it to the meeting, but my question would be about PVP too. Except that I think they should remove death from PVP on the first subdue.. If you lose all your HP to PVP the first phase should be a subdued phase where you're weakened in place for X amount of time just like laying there on the ground. They can choose to 'bash you' which would just kill you like normal.

I think it is paramount to RP and IC interactions that people don't die everytime a fight breaks out. I think being Subdued first as a result of pvp makes -much- more sense then straight up killing and returning to life.

I always liked how another server did it where you had a subdue mode that worked with everything (swords, spells, etc) without being any more difficult than normal. I get that it isn't too "realistic", but then again being back 5 minutes later from a self rez isn't any more realistic. Subdue mode was also toggled on by default and so you needed to toggle it off on a server restart/login, which helped with accidental TKs from misclicks.

At the end of the day though the loser is in control of what the PvP means. Subdue, kill, kill + bash, none of it really matters if the loser doesn't incorporate it into their RP. And you can say "well they should do so" but on the other hand if the instigator/winner of the PvP just did the bare minimum of RP before PvP, not even thinking of making it an engaging experience, they shouldn't expect the loser to put in more effort than them.

I think not dying like full on death would make it easier for consequences to be had. Maybe the fugue could even just be repurposed where in you don't... Die, but you become unconcious or black out and when you 'return to life' it's just you waking up. Then instead of having your body beam back to like a tomb stone you wake up in a respawn point.

[Sartain]

I attended part of the first meeting and while insular, in the sense the several of the issues being addressed to a server wide population apparently needs to be found out in game, it was nice to see people showing and generally maintaining their chill composure.

I agree that the Euro-time made absolutely no sense except for people who work nights shifts or are unemployed but I guess somebody misread a time-consuming table somewhere

I also agree that it probably raised more questions than it answered, by virtue of so few questions actually being answered and those being answered not being answered in much detail, due to constraints.
I definitely felt like there was some community bonding, at the start of the first meeting at least. Laughs were had and everybody was kinda reminded that the other players are people too, it seemed.
Honestly I think it would be great if, instead of one big crisis-adressing server meeting, there would be smaller meetings maybe once a month or every quarter or what have you, where players get to meet some of the team and all parties can address and discuss some of the important things happening on the server, talking about good/bad approaches to the game, plans for the future and such

[Durvayas]

I think the Staff has -always- expressed that they do not want mass PVP in hubs. Especially in Andunor. I remember when I was playing my drow there was a huge event regarding the merchants in the Hub getting tired of fights breaking out. So they have gone to some lengths to prevent it. I think that PVP happens more often in the Hub isn't because the UD is more PVP hungry but because there is like -only- the Hub for people to meet. On the surface there are a lot of other settlements for people to PVP each other at. For example, street slaughters in Cordor are semi regular. My current character has seen them happen three times.

I do agree the step in to force PVP away from the Tower was a mistake though. And honestly it changes absolutely nothing. War does not = rage PVP fights constantly. It never has. The Arcane Tower sees plenty of PVP as is -without- war declarations just because it happens to be a place where people with different ideals bump into each other often.

I feel the need to point out that the treadstone district of andunor has all of the amenities that it has specifically so it can serve as a place people can go to avoid getting PvPed if they are persona non grata in the hub (or if a war is on and the hub is currently effectively garrisoned by large numbers of PCs that want to kill them.)

Thats not to say the treadstone district is safe, as there is nothing preventing a war party from the other side from actively hunting said PC there, but it does allow a PC to be able to function. To be able to use a bank, buy kits, sell stuff, and there is a portal. It doesn't immunize a PC from getting killed, but it makes it so that they don't have to risk being in the hub and getting killed in the hub in the meantime.

[Ebonstar]

i was at the sunday afternoon meeting but having 200 players on distant shores was a lot, and i know a few of us missed much after irongron left for his birthday, Happy late birthday btw.

is there a way to have the code logs formatted into normal text so it can be read much easier?

[Kreydis]

i was at the sunday afternoon meeting but having 200 players on distant shores was a lot, and i know a few of us missed much after irongron left for his birthday, Happy late birthday btw.

is there a way to have the code logs formatted into normal text so it can be read much easier?

You can select all of the text and copy paste it into a word file. I.E. Microsoft word / any freeware office program.

[Dirac]

I think the Staff has -always- expressed that they do not want mass PVP in hubs. Especially in Andunor.

How can this be the case when you have two settlements on either side of the hub with mechanics specifically designed for faction war? I mean, some staff may not like it, but the design intent is there.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Meetings like this are always hard, so I don't want to get nitpicky about anything, but I really think if something like this ever happens again it should be done on Discord. The Benefits of easy to read text if you weren't there combined with the ability to mute the channel except for dms/devs and whoever's question it is far outweigh the possibility of missing someone who doesn't want to log into discord imo.

[Sartain]

Meetings like this are always hard, so I don't want to get nitpicky about anything, but I really think if something like this ever happens again it should be done on Discord. The Benefits of easy to read text if you weren't there combined with the ability to mute the channel except for dms/devs and whoever's question it is far outweigh the possibility of missing someone who doesn't want to log into discord imo.

If you want to be all practical about it, this is definitely true. But there's something very wholesome about everyone showing up with their various characters and being able to get along, it's almost like a 'behind the scenes' moment

[MalKalz]

Meetings like this are always hard, so I don't want to get nitpicky about anything, but I really think if something like this ever happens again it should be done on Discord. The Benefits of easy to read text if you weren't there combined with the ability to mute the channel except for dms/devs and whoever's question it is far outweigh the possibility of missing someone who doesn't want to log into discord imo.

The issues with using Discord:

- Setting the precedence of needing a third party application to communicate with the team.
- Not everyone uses Discord, but everyone who plays Arelith uses NWN.
- Some staff keep their usernames concealed or don’t even use Discord.

While it is a nice tool, and can probably do what was suggested, the best way would be in game. We can only hope that we can schedule some more appropriate times for EU people. But we based the scheduling around what time worked for admins.

[monkeywithstick]

Try a livestream to twitch?
Those who turn up in game turn up in game, just requires someone to be monitoring the twitch comments and relaying where needed to the NWN side meeting.