Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

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Aodh Lazuli
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Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am

Okay, so... I just spent a little while (read, half an hour) working out everything that is needed to craft this item.

Code: Select all

TOTAL MATERIALS:
4x sand
24x coal
8x charcoal (a byproduct of crafting of the sub-ingredients))

5x alchemist's fire

2x chunks addy
3x chunks arjale
3x chunks mithril

32x Hardwood
10x Softwood
20x Nuts
20x Malyss root
12x Yarrow leaf               
8x Harnak seeds
6x Sassone leaf
6x Strideleaf
2x fruit  
1x salt
1x large animal hide



TOTAL CRAFT POINTS/MAX DC
Alchemy: 300 points/max DC 35

Art: 60 points/max DC 3

Carpentry: 336 points/max DC 45

Herbalism: 121 points/max DC 12

Tailoring: 1 point/max DC 5


TOTAL POINTS: 818
I think this is... Probably a little excessive in terms of crafting requirements. This item is not alone in being an absurd mission to craft. The ashwood bows and enchanted quarterstaff are really much the same.

Y'know... if you simply required that all these items are gathered and shoved raw into a carpentry workstation before hitting the craft button, with TRIPLE the point requirement, but something that meant a carpenter, artist, herbalist, and tailor needed to each invest a minimum of X points into the project... It would almost be more reasonable than all these different sub-crafts and so on, with the risks of rolling a one on any single craft of any of the ingredients.

Lets just consider the end result. Essentially a lighter (all the dex characters breathe a sigh of collective relief, and reduce their spending on STR wands) version of an addy tower shield that can be used by small races, at the cost of the peircing reduction. It really doesn't seem right that you should need to go to this absurd degree of effort for such a thing.

Perhaps the crafting requirement could be dialed back juuuust a little.


For reference... Below is the entire process for crafting one of these.

Code: Select all

Enchanted shield

 - 2x ashwood stabiliser.
    - 4x charcoal (byproduct of pine tar)
    - 2x chunks addy
    - 2x natural gums
        - 8x Nuts
        - 10x Glass Vial
        - 4x Hardwood
        - 4x Softwood
        - 8x Malyss Root
    - 2x pine tar 
        - 4x glass bottle 
        - 8x hardwood
        - 2x alchemist's fire

 - 1x dragon oil 
    - 1x dragonhide
    - 5x flask of oil
    - 1x dragon blood

 - 2x hardening finish
    - 2x Arjale chunk
    - 2x Mithril chunk
    - 2x natural gums 
        - 8x Nuts
        - 10x Glass Vial 
        - 4x Hardwood
        - 4x Softwood
        - 8x Malyss Root
    - 2x pine tar 
        - 4x glass bottle 
        - 8x hardwood
        - 2x alchemist's fire

 - 1x Hardened shield 
     - 1x Emulsified oil
        - 4x Harnak Seeds
        - 2x Charcoal (byproduct of pine tar)
        - 1x Iron chunk
        - 1x Small seed balm
            - 3x Strideleaf
            - 6x Nuts
            - 3x Sassone Leaves
            - 6x Yarrow Leaves

     - 1x hardening finish
        - 1x Arjale chunk
        - 1x Mithril chunk
        - 1x natural gums 
           - 4x Nuts
           - 5x Glass Vial
           - 2x Hardwood
           - 2x Softwood
           - 4x Malyss Root
        - 1x pine tar
           - 2x glass bottle 
           - 4x hardwood
           - 1x alchemist's fire
  
     - 1x Sturdy Wood Shield 
       - 1x Emulsified oil 
         - 4x Harnak Seeds
         - 2x Charcoal (byproduct of pine tar)
         - 1x Iron chunk
         - 1x Small seed balm 
            - 3x Strideleaf
            - 6x Nuts
            - 3x Sassone Leaves
            - 6x Yarrow Leaves
       - 1x leather (large) 
          - 1x tanning acid 
            - 1x glass vial 
            - 1x Salt
            - 2x Fruit 
          - 1x animal hide (large)  
       - 1x Large Shield (wood) 
          - 2x hardwood   
Sofawiel wrote:
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TimeAdept
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:06 am

Pretty much all the high end carpentry stuff is absurdly complex for what appears to be no real reason. Dragon Oil, Pine Tar, Natural Gums, Hardened Finishes, and all that, seem to have been created solely to add complex middle steps to making the Ashwood things, and the Enchanted wooden items and weapons.

Compare to a smith putting in coal and a bit of adamantine and some mithril, and you're pretty much done. There's no intermediary steps and everything you need comes from your discipline. Or tailoring, which is much the same way for its large item payoffs.

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Rigela
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Rigela » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:10 am

I do have to agree.

After making the ashwood crossbow and now trying to make the enchanted shield and quarterstaff it feels absolutely awful and time consuming. There is just so much to make, to even begin the crafting of the actual product. Each which has its own costs and risks of failure and doesn't requires "just a few" of these irksome pre products, but a giant sum of them.

Now, they are very nice things to have once you've made them, but they each seem to vastly outclass anything else in resource requirement. Very few things (if any?) seem to have just so many steps, to get what you want.

If it was one or two steps? Sure, I wouldn't be bothered, but when it's near a dozen it just becomes a massive annoyance. Especially when you have the risk of having to start all over again at any point.
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Aodh Lazuli
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:17 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:06 am
Or tailoring, which is much the same way for its large item payoffs.
Tailoring can be a bit fiddly, in all honesty. The rogue leathers, for example... But nothing like the scale of the enchanted shield, and carpentry stuff.
Sofawiel wrote:
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three wolf moon
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by three wolf moon » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:27 am

Hard agree. The shield, the new bow/xbow, are nothing short of torture to make. These recipes are like a Russian nesting doll, except instead of symbolizing familial bonds and safety, they make you want to plunge yourself into the depths of Hell to escape this pain.

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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:23 am

For sure. It's an unnecessarily convoluted process.

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Kreydis
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Kreydis » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:21 pm

Ashwood equipment is pain and suffering.

That being said, would we be complaining if everything was as complex as ashwood? Because I believe the the DM team wants to make crafting components more interchangeable and thus making crafting fare more lucrative of a commodity where you can sell the base components rather then the final product, because everything is bundled in a little package known as hardwood finish or whatever.

Maybe I'm full of it. I often am, I just think the DM team has a bigger picture other then making carpenters suffer.
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Aodh Lazuli
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:53 pm

Kreydis wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:21 pm
That being said, would we be complaining if everything was as complex as ashwood?

Yes. Except everyone would be complaining.
Sofawiel wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Dont text eggplants.

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Kreydis
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Kreydis » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:00 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:53 pm
Kreydis wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:21 pm
That being said, would we be complaining if everything was as complex as ashwood?

Yes. Except everyone would be complaining.
Yes, spread the suffering!
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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Sartain » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:03 pm

Without having much practical experience with the crafting system, other than forging a few steel items, I'd say that if the plan is build a multi-layered crafting material economy crafting needs to be overhauled so ALL of the branches are more or less equally resource demanding and some trade skills might need to be designed to be less useless. For example, herbalism seems to more or less unnecessary and not worth the time or resources (judging from reading the recipes).

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Re: Enchanted Shield (carpentry craft)

Post by Durvayas » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:22 am

Kreydis wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:21 pm
Ashwood equipment is pain and suffering.

That being said, would we be complaining if everything was as complex as ashwood? Because I believe the the DM team wants to make crafting components more interchangeable and thus making crafting fare more lucrative of a commodity where you can sell the base components rather then the final product, because everything is bundled in a little package known as hardwood finish or whatever.
The system is already like that. You'll make FAR more money per craft point spent simply selling ingots en masse than you ever will smithing.

The point being made here is that ashwood crafting is just plan arduous. Every single step of the way, for every single component, you have a 5% chance of losing all your materials. Those materials translate directly into time invested, either in grinding gold to buy them, or time spent harvesting.

The more steps and crafted components an item has, the lower the profit margin is going to be, because the chance of catastrophic failure is always there. There comes a point where crafting isn't worth doing unless the price is astronomical. I would be seriously dissapointed if the dev team's intentions were to push the price of certain crafted items into well beyond the 700000gp + range.

I'm also personally overall not happy with the introduction of the ashwood crossbow into the game. Its contributing directly to power creep on the server(again), which I have little doubt will eventually lead to various creatures getting a buff down the line once enough of these items exist in the game (because items this hard to make and this expensive to make tend to be the sort of thing that gets passed down from character to character to character rather than rolled with.)
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