Monk: Eyes

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs, Contributors

User avatar
Red Ropes
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:42 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Red Ropes » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:06 pm

Monks don't get glowy eyes in PnP.

They become native outsiders who are still mortal.

It's meant to emulate LOL BUDDHA status.

I don't think the glowy eyes add anything to the game and if it can be done away with, I think it's a good idea.

You can already tell what monks are by watching monks perform in battle.

DUN DUN DUN.

this message is brought to you by reasonable discourse gang
🤡

User avatar
Arise_Gargantua
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:57 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Arise_Gargantua » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:17 pm

I think they should be removed on the grounds that they look awful and stupid.
Song of my soul, my voice is dead, die thou, unsung, as tears unshed shall dry and die in Lost Carcosa

User avatar
Richørd
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:25 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Richørd » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:04 pm

Dunno. I like them and think they look cool. It has a real OOMPH factor to it when a dark figure reveals itself out of a dark corner with red glowing eyes. Or when your trusty neighbourhood-supernice monk Amadeo Pneuma runs across the town like a blue hedgehog with his blue glowy-eyes.

User avatar
Marla McGivers
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Marla McGivers » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:07 am

Richørd wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:04 pm
Dunno. I like them and think they look cool. It has a real OOMPH factor to it when a dark figure reveals itself out of a dark corner with red glowing eyes.
The reality i found was sadly nothing like that. It was almost comical in that the reaction was *Sighs* "Really?"

If what people say is true, that it is impossible to remove, then it's all academical, but if it can be toggled then surely that's the best of both worlds?

Those who wish to show their glow eyes can and those who don't can turn them off, like Warlocks and helmets and cloaks.
To feel the thrill of victory, there has to be the possibility of failure. - Katherine Pulaski

Sea Shanties
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:45 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Sea Shanties » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:00 am

Marla McGivers wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:07 am
Richørd wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:04 pm
Dunno. I like them and think they look cool. It has a real OOMPH factor to it when a dark figure reveals itself out of a dark corner with red glowing eyes.
The reality i found was sadly nothing like that. It was almost comical in that the reaction was *Sighs* "Really?"
https://youtu.be/lcOxhH8N3Bo?t=296

Its_a_jelly
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Its_a_jelly » Fri May 17, 2019 11:22 pm

Marla McGivers wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:04 pm
As soon as my Monk reached level 20 people's reactions to her changed. What had once been serious interactions became finger pointing, sighs and being taken less seriously by others.

I'm well aware of the reasons behind the eye Colour change, but I believe it affects role play and not for the better.

Yes I can use a helmet that covers the glow but once removed the problem returns.

We already change things to benefit enjoyment over reason, for example we can wear helmets and cloaks that are made invisible, so can we not remove the glowing eyes or at least make them optional?

If it's not mechanically possible then I find myself at a crossroads with my character and would appreciate any advice my fellow players may have.
Hi, I'm a newish player who has a monk character who is approaching level 20.

Is this still an issue? Can glowing eyes be toggled off in Arelith, yet? If not, will it ever?

Archnon
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Archnon » Sat May 18, 2019 4:19 am

I don't think it can as of yet. In reality, a level 20 monk should be treated differently and with a little suspicion as an oddity. The problem on this server is that glowing eyes is also the main signal of warlocks and that class was previously way more prevalent than monks which most people only dipped for. The surface reaction to Warlocks tends to be get out the pitch forks.

Ideally it would be nice if monk and warlock eye colors were distinct. Maybe all monks got green or gold eyes or something, independent of alignment while warlocks kept the red.

Beard Master Flex
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:50 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Beard Master Flex » Sat May 18, 2019 4:21 am

I always thought the eyes were cool and it has lent itself to some absolutely powerful and stunning emotes and descriptions fitting of a Monk in my experience throughout the years.

Astral
Posts: 1229
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Astral » Sat May 18, 2019 8:20 am

I think the eyes are an IC consequence ascended monks need to live with. Monk's eyes glow because of years of training how to channel their Ki energy in magnified ways to a point where they are able to violate basic laws of nature and physics. "giving up" your alignment seems like a good perk that adds a twist to the story and there are many ways to deal with it IC or OOC. My first idea is not to take seriously all those people who dont take you seriously. If people look at your glowing eyes and their immediate reaction is to *sigh* and be on the "we've seen this before" train, just ignore them and play with people who take the setting more seriously. in a more IC manner you can talk with those people and convince them not to regard your eyes and just trust you for your actions and not some visual traits about you. I'm sorry about your disappointing encounters with people regarding your glowing eyes but that's just a flaw in the player perception.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Shadowy Reality » Sat May 18, 2019 11:11 am

They shouldn't be removed, but they should be toggable. As has been mentioned, Monks are complete control of their body, and Ki, hence they should be able to turn the glowing Ki eyes off, if they so desire.

User avatar
Ork
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Ork » Sat May 18, 2019 2:50 pm

Glowy eyes are a dumb feature and need to go!

Basementfellow
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:19 am
Location: See username.

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Basementfellow » Sat May 18, 2019 6:15 pm

I'd love to see 'em made toggleable, but even with that I foresee dumb situations in which people demand "why won't you show us your glowy ascendant eyes? you must be evil!"
Iceborn wrote:I shall very inefficiently murder with a spoon the next individual that mentions Shrek.

JubJub
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by JubJub » Sat May 18, 2019 6:19 pm

I have yet to see a person get booted out of town simply for their eyes being red.

Nitro
Posts: 2800
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Nitro » Sat May 18, 2019 6:59 pm

Let monks switch the colour of their glow at will. One less meta-mechanic for figuring out peoples alignment would be nice.

yellowcateyes
Project Lead
Project Lead
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by yellowcateyes » Sat May 18, 2019 7:07 pm

The glowing eyes visual effect for Monk is hard-coded to occur at class level 20.

From what I understand, this can be remedied with null versions of the vfx mdl files for monk eyes. (And possibly scripted replacements that the monk character has more control over.) But, as this requires client-side files, that solution will have to wait until haks.

Archnon
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Archnon » Sat May 18, 2019 9:45 pm

JubJub wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:19 pm
I have yet to see a person get booted out of town simply for their eyes being red.
You my friend must have never played on Skal. Find the warlock is a favorite newb pvp scenario.

User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Durvayas » Sun May 19, 2019 3:10 pm

I get that the glow itself is hardcoded to exist, but is it not possible to simply give them a menu to choose what color? Warlocks can change eye color at will, as its associated with what blast type they're using. Surely it should be possible to make coding that detects what glow is active, and swaps it out right?
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

yellowcateyes
Project Lead
Project Lead
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by yellowcateyes » Sun May 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:10 pm
I get that the glow itself is hardcoded to exist, but is it not possible to simply give them a menu to choose what color? Warlocks can change eye color at will, as its associated with what blast type they're using. Surely it should be possible to make coding that detects what glow is active, and swaps it out right?
No, it's not possible without client-side files.

Warlock eyes are a scripted effect. Monk eyes are generated by the game engine without any tie-in to NWN script.

Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sun May 19, 2019 4:54 pm

Is there a way of randomizing the alignment of a monk when they hit level 20 so you don't know what eyes you're going to get? Can monks get a menu to re-select their alignment or something?

I think the real problem with monk eyes is how they're tied to alignment. It would be way more fun if LG monks had red eyes, neutral had blue, evil had purple, etc. Nothing was predictable.

Like how Amadeo is Lawful Evil but still has blue eyes. Imagine if that could be more widespread.
Previous:
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil

User avatar
CosmicOrderV
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by CosmicOrderV » Sun May 19, 2019 5:57 pm

Some points of consideration:
  • In normal D&D, spells to detect one's alignment are common. Eyes betraying alignment wouldn't be a huge deal normally, especially for someone who has lived a very principled life.
  • The glowing eyes occur at level 20, representative of their transforming into an outsider. Notice for all outsiders, they don't look like a perfectly normal human being. Even if humanoid, they tend to gain animalistic features (wings, horns, hooves, tails, ect).
  • Normally in D&D, a monk's eyes don't glow.
I really don't think the glow should be random, because of the above points. I used to think it would be fine if it stayed, but after talking to some folks, it's probably best to just use standard D&D mechanics for this kind of stuff (when mechanics allow, of course). Monks eyes were never supposed to glow, why bother keeping it. Same goes for warlocks. Once warlocks get a more customized spellbook, maybe some exclusive spells no other class gets, we won't have to rely on seeing glowy eyes. A player-character can judge it by what spells they use, as would normally be done, in standard D&D.
Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:22 pm
I, too, struggle to know what is written in books without first reading them.

Its_a_jelly
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Its_a_jelly » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:59 am

Since hitting level 20, my character has been accused of being a warlock several times. He would always calmly explain that warlocks have red eyes and his eye were clearly not red - end of discussion (with those who even bothered to discuss it).

I only recently found out IG (and now read in this thread) that warlocks can *change* their eye glow color? They can also turn them off, if they want? Seriously? As others have stated in this thread, this doesn't seem right.

Glowing eyes...

Give away my character's alignment (I don't really care about this one)
Give away my character's level (roughly)
Give away the fact that my character is immune to mind magic
Lump my character in with warlocks

Anyone, who looks at my character, gets all of this information at a glance with zero RP.

I would happily download any client-side haks to be rid of the glowing eyes. Do they exist? Where can I find them?

Thanks for any help!

Nevrus
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:18 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Nevrus » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:17 am

The good news is with the monk update you're about to see a lot more monks with glowing eyes and people will start accusing warlocks of being monks

and probably treat both the same
Ganus- Riding the Isle (Active)
Aura Bigstep - Got Out Ahead (Retired)
Egos Ironhide - Shelved
Consult a medical professional before believing anything Nevrus says.

User avatar
Ebonstar
Posts: 1471
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: you may not see me but i see you

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:30 am

Its_a_jelly wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:59 am
Since hitting level 20, my character has been accused of being a warlock several times. He would always calmly explain that warlocks have red eyes and his eye were clearly not red - end of discussion (with those who even bothered to discuss it).

I only recently found out IG (and now read in this thread) that warlocks can *change* their eye glow color? They can also turn them off, if they want? Seriously? As others have stated in this thread, this doesn't seem right.

Glowing eyes...

Give away my character's alignment (I don't really care about this one)
Give away my character's level (roughly)
Give away the fact that my character is immune to mind magic
Lump my character in with warlocks

Anyone, who looks at my character, gets all of this information at a glance with zero RP.

I would happily download any client-side haks to be rid of the glowing eyes. Do they exist? Where can I find them?

Thanks for any help!
I like my monks eyes, they actually go with my chosen outfit. But evil monks do have perm red eyes, so i can see why this is a thing.

Although i can see the time when it would be very cool, if the monk steps from the shadows and all you see is the glow to his eyes through the mist
Yes I can sign

Sea Shanties
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:45 pm

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Sea Shanties » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:41 am

Its_a_jelly wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:59 am

I would happily download any client-side haks to be rid of the glowing eyes. Do they exist? Where can I find them?
If you download an override it would just change the effect on your screen, no one else's. So everyone who plays the game would have to download them if you don't want fellow players to see the glow.

Fortunately with EE you can force everyone to auto-download additional files before they log in, don't know if or when Arelith will go that route (Haks are a big step.)

Its_a_jelly
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 am

Re: Monk: Eyes

Post by Its_a_jelly » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:02 am

Sea Shanties wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:41 am
Its_a_jelly wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:59 am

I would happily download any client-side haks to be rid of the glowing eyes. Do they exist? Where can I find them?
If you download an override it would just change the effect on your screen, no one else's. So everyone who plays the game would have to download them if you don't want fellow players to see the glow.

Fortunately with EE you can force everyone to auto-download additional files before they log in, don't know if or when Arelith will go that route (Haks are a big step.)
Ah, bummer...

Okay, thanks. Hopefully, it becomes an "option" soon. Though, I just did an 18 level monk redo of my character on the PGCC, and it seems okay (minus the fact that I lose mind immunity). So, I suppose it's an option if the "you're a warlock" RP becomes too annoying.

Post Reply