Myon Overhaul?

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Myon Overhaul?

Post by Memelord » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:59 pm

So, I've come to realize that Myon is pretty much the only settlement that hasn't really received anything resembling a major overhaul since its inception - the Myon of today is the Myon of 10 years ago, with the only real change of note being the shifting of one PC-owned estate into an only semi-functional inn and two new shops being added to the outside of the Mythal. It's really lacking in some of the features and quality of life changes that've been made to the server these last few years, and I was wondering - is an overhaul or update of Myon on the docket at all?

A few notes I'd like to make:

1) Lack of Guildhalls: so far as I'm aware, with the update to the Hawk's Nest in Bendir, Myon is now the only settlement that doesn't have at least one guildhall inside of it. This means that the obligatory Military/Militia group needs to occupy a regular quarter instead, which is often a point of annoyance for either the leader of the faction or one of its members (since they no longer have the option to have a personal quarter for storage.)

2) Semifunctional Inn: Myon has the House of the Reverie, which is supposedly an inn. It has some nice features, like a water source inside of it, several quarters, a balcony/ledge, and a public storage chest for giving gifts to lowbies/random people, but it lacks some of the other features common in every other inn, e.g., an actual innkeeper. Myon has an NPC that sells wine, water, and food - but he's off wandering around in another area of the city altogether, bumping into you as you try to walk and breathing down your neck as you craft.

3) Awful NPC Merchants: All of Myon's NPC merchants are really spread out - most of the other settlements either have a centralized area for selling things or they at least have closer clusters of merchants (Cordor has its tradehall + the peddler & scroll purchaser right next to each other; Bendir-Brog have their respective tradehalls + easy access to each other's peddler & scroll vendor through the Earthkin Portal; Guldorand is pretty much just as sorely lacking as Myon in this regard.) Myon's merchants are all spread out across a couple areas, and they don't really buy the things you'd expect them to buy (the smith won't buy a lot of weapons you bring to him, the carpenter a lot of woodwork, etc.) - it also lacks any form of Peddler merchant or scroll vendor (Bendir has an Elf who buys scrolls, but the Elven city does not) or immediate access to these merchants via portals or boats.

4) Restricted Access to PC Shops: Myon is the single worst place to own a shop as a PC, because 6 out of its 8 shops can largely only be accessed by Neutral & Good-aligned Elves. This cuts down harshly on the opportunities for you to sell things, and encourages decent elf-merchant PCs to really not come to Myon.

5) Mythal Nuke When: Most elf-players really hate this thing, and would greatly prefer to see it replaced by something more akin to the Gondolin-style of hidden city from Tolkien's mythos, or even the Veil of Melian (which reshaped the forests leading into Doriath into a difficult to navigate maze of trees and hedges unless you were an Elf or the elves of Doriath wanted to grant you passage through it - something that could be pretty easily managed with a sort of Lost Desert/Abyss set of areas - allowing non-elves the chance to find Myon, but also allowing elves and their guests to come and go more freely.)

Most of these things, except for the Mythal, have some "relatively" easy fixes - just shifting the water & food vendor into the House of Reverie (and updating his stock to include some of the new randomized alcohol options) would turn it into an actual inn (just remove his constant yelling about how nice his breads and cheeses are.)

Changing the quarter that has been used for RL years as the barracks for the Sentinels/Akh'aravae would put Myon on equal footing with every other settlement in this regard now.

Creating a sort of "trade hall" area outside of the Mythal and shifting the player shops from the bank to this new and more easily accessible location would make these shops far more desirable and give elven merchants an actual reason to set up shop in Myon; it'd also create an excellent centralized location to put NPC merchants in - even if Myon doesn't get a peddler NPC, even just adding a scroll merchant would be a great help (and it's a bit silly that Bendir has an elven scroll vendor when Myon has - well. None.)

Thoughts, comments, concerns, ideas to be spitballed?

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Ebonstar » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:10 pm

like the idea of the forest changing to be the new mythal type guardian
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Queen Titania » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm

Myon will see changes when the Nation of Guldorand content is finished and released.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Memelord » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm

It's been suggested to me, by some of the patrons, that Myon will just be turned into a racial enclave inside of Guldorand. Can this be confirmed or denied? It seems a little bit of an off-key merger, when you consider that Myon and Guldorand (as player groups) have rarely had terribly well-meshing philosophical approaches.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by TimeAdept » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:14 pm

Memelord wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm
It's been suggested to me, by some of the patrons, that Myon will just be turned into a racial enclave inside of Guldorand. Can this be confirmed or denied? It seems a little bit of an off-key merger, when you consider that Myon and Guldorand (as player groups) have rarely had terribly well-meshing philosophical approaches.
What, like Myon is being removed, and the only elf settlement is the little elf quarter Irongron mentioned?

That sounds, uh... like a really bad idea.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by BegoneThoth » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:16 pm

Memelord wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm
It's been suggested to me, by some of the patrons, that Myon will just be turned into a racial enclave inside of Guldorand. Can this be confirmed or denied? It seems a little bit of an off-key merger, when you consider that Myon and Guldorand (as player groups) have rarely had terribly well-meshing philosophical approaches.
Taking an entire settlement and making them relocate to, lets be real here, an actual ghetto, seems like very poor form.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Vrass » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:20 pm

I hope Myon's merger with Guldorand wont make Guldorand unvisitable... i rather like Guldorand and my current character cannot visit Myon due to IC strife.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Dragonfyre » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:28 pm



Myon isn't being removed.

Myon isn't "merging" with Guldorand.

Myon is - (...I think? ...maybe?) - getting its own overhaul, with haks, around the same time Guldorand is "updated".

There's going to be an elven quarter in "new Guldorand", administrated by Myon.

It's been... pretty publicly talked about, plus the "administered by Myon" bit was explicitly stated both here on the forums, on Twitter, and on Discord.

Taken from this Feedback thread.
Irongron wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:50 pm
I have been reluctant to add much to Gulorand, for much the same reason as I'm cautious of adding much more housing to the surface.

The reason being that I still expect Beamdog to introduce an automated HAK downloader/updater. I still believe that the lack of HAKs on Arelith is a big reason for its success, especially now. An automated downloader I believe would suddenly make a lot of the other servers out there more attractive, so I'm kind of suprised the larger NwN isn't clamouring for it.

I've raised this Beamdog multiple times, and I do believe it is something definitely on the horizon. When that happens we are going to see Arelith change significantly, and the introduction of HAKs becoming the primary focus of development.

Thankfully I have already started, with many months work having been done on a new mid-high level nation & city, which greatly expands the NE of the Arelith isle. The keen eyed will have noticed a broken bridge along Minmir's coast which will approach it (also by travelling north of the Logging Camp)

That nation is 'Guldorand', built around a city of the same name. At its southern border lies the logging camp, which will revert to being just that.

I am very much enthused about getting back into that project, and have recently spoken with the maker of many new tilsets we'll be using - only a couple of weeks did he kindly fix one of the outstanding bugs I've encountered. It's already such a beautiful place, and from the development side building it will feel like working with a whole new game.

When making it I planned on having this on a different HAK gated server (so players could still play on the regular ones without them), but this wasn't an ideal solution. It was also really done as a 'contingency planning' project - ready to be deployed should we ever found ourselves with significantly more players. I recall ruling it out until we were hitting 200 online.

Well, we're hitting it now, and with a HAK downloader right around the corner some very big things are on the horizon, not only for Guldorand, but also for the other settlement that's been lacking development, Myon.

Patrons who have been given the tour may recall that the new city has an extensive Elven Quarter, and this is to be administered by Myon, effectively enlarging the settlement 5 fold. Myon itself would remain; the ancenstral capital of the Elven Nation of Arelith, and the lore surrounding that ancient history is being worked heavily into what is to be discovered as work begins upon that corner of the isle.

None of this rules out adding a few guards to Guldorand, should I find the time of course, but it is worth knowing that the next big narrative may be happening there as we enter the second half of the year. I'm still not entirely certain though, as I'd like to see us with stable numbers in excess of 200 (preferably 300 at peak), and I don't yet have an ETA on automated HAK downloader.
And this (original link to the Twitter post below the image):
Image
https://twitter.com/AArelith/status/1042734478588870657

Other than that, you can likely expect whatever laws, exiles, and what-have-you that apply in current Guldorand to apply in the updated Guldorand whenever it comes out, and for Myon's to apply in the elven quarter. Might be some overlap between the two, might not.

(Edit): ...sorry for the derail, but seriously. No more fear-ranting about "nuuh, they're removing Myon!"
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by BegoneThoth » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:40 pm

Will evles have exile power or a government in their new quarter
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Hazard » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:42 pm

A haircut sounds good.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:50 pm

I really hope it doesn't become Cordor 2.0 with all the lag and crash issues that EE has been having.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by The Kriv » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 am

Memelord wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:59 pm

5) Mythal Nuke When: Most elf-players really hate this thing
you mean MOST ELF PLAYERS THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY TALKED TO ON THIS SUBJECT. Unless you've polled the entire elven community, don't make assumptions based on the personal preference of yourself and the small % of total players of elves on the server.


Because I can say the same: The Mythal is cool as it is.... and most players really dig it the way it is as well.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Nitro » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:09 am

The Kriv wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 am
don't make assumptions based on the personal preference of yourself and the small % of total players of elves on the server.
...
and most players really dig it the way it is as well.
:thinking:
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:50 pm
I really hope it doesn't become Cordor 2.0 with all the lag and crash issues that EE has been having.
Yeah, same. Andunor is probably my favourite settlement on the server right now design-wise because it's a lot of small areas instead of one or two large-ones that really tank performance.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Dragonfyre » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:48 am

Sure, the mythal is cool as is... when there's a big enough Myon-based elven population to support it. Otherwise, it just serves to stagnate RP in the city because of the restrictions on entry. I've personally never heard anyone actually defend the mythal, other than "well, it was a good idea, once upon a time", and that elven cities, historically, had similar mythals according to canon lore.

During the best of times, the mythal helps to create a really insular, tight-knit community. But that's only during the best of times. At all other times, it only serves to further segregate the elven community from the rest of the playerbase, ensures Myon's player-driven economy stagnates due to lack of visitation, and makes the city itself nigh-impregnable to hostile (and non-hostile) parties, which sows discord in the playerbase at large because no other settlement on the server has anything comparable to Myon's "ur ebil, ur not elf, lol go away" mythal mechanics. Myon's people can go on the offensive against just about anyone they want to, then retreat to their "safe place" and not have a care in the world because "lol, you can't get in".



^ You can't just talk to one set of players and assume "this is the prevailing opinion on X situation". And no, I don't play an elf, or an evil character, currently. But the above is the "prevailing" opinion I hear echoed, more often than not, from both sides.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by RedGiant » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:41 am

DM Titania wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm
Myon will see changes when the Nation of Guldorand content is finished and released.
Is this a joke? Please tell me this is a joke...
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Ork » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:38 am

This is good. Time to shake it up.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by BegoneThoth » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:12 am

Does an independent elf settlement not match the DM's vision of the island? Is that why it's being removed and why a race-ghetto is potentially being added?
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Memelord » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:27 am

Dragonfyre already linked a post to the original announcement of the elf-quarter; evidently, Myon remains independent and will have control/authority (in some fashion, perhaps directly?) over the elf-quarter. Initial concerns about Dragon Age-stye elf ghettos are potentially unfounded.

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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Petrifictus » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:47 am

I think Myon could use improvement by dropping their "No Bad Guys Shields" and make raiding its city possible like with the other settlements. I dont get it why the elves should get special treatment and be "Raid Free."
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by BegoneThoth » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:38 am

Memelord wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:27 am
Dragonfyre already linked a post to the original announcement of the elf-quarter; evidently, Myon remains independent and will have control/authority (in some fashion, perhaps directly?) over the elf-quarter. Initial concerns about Dragon Age-stye elf ghettos are potentially unfounded.
As described in the posts above, an 'elf' area inside a 'human' city will literally will be a ghetto.
a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Queen Titania » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:28 pm

Ghetto has certain modern connotations that don't really mesh, so I wouldn't use the word.

Plus this elf quarter has a portal to Myon directly, thus Myon is getting some change to it as well.

When HAKS come out too it will increase the possibilities of how Myon could be re-imagined.

Actually reading above Dragonfyre says everything better than I did. :)

Petrifictus wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:47 am
I think Myon could use improvement by dropping their "No Bad Guys Shields" and make raiding its city possible like with the other settlements. I dont get it why the elves should get special treatment and be "Raid Free."
The Mythal is not the only way into Myon. There is no Bad Guy Shield.

Such attacks have also taken place in the Temple of Silvanus, though I've not seen anyone in some time go over to the Baelnorn guarded crypt.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 pm

Petrifictus wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:47 am
I dont get it why the elves should get special treatment and be "Raid Free."

Once again for emphasis. A substantial number of people who have played invested and long term elf characters wish to see the mythal altered, changed, or removed entirely, because they do not wish to have this "protection".

The fact of the matter is that the, lets face it, ooc resentment it causes among other parts of the playerbase paints a target on Myon and elves in general. Additionally, funneling all traffic in and out of a settlement through one point makes it ludicrously easy to siege. Three guys can paralyze the entire damned city.

There are several relatively well known ways of bypassing or or tricking the mythal to get inside when you "shouldn't" be able to.

So not only do (a substantial number of) players wish to open the place up to a broader spectrum of elven roleplay, but the mythal itself fails at providing the "special treatment" and protection others believe it provides. Nobody is winning here.
DM Titania wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:28 pm
Ghetto has certain modern connotations that don't really mesh, so I wouldn't use the word.
Begone is deliberately referencing those modern connotations. That's intentional. He is not speaking in roleplay - ANd therefore has free reign to use whatever modern terminology he chooses. I have little doubt that word would be absent from any RP he conducts. Your response in this regard is a little off the mark.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by The Kriv » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:33 pm

Petrifictus wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:47 am
I think Myon could use improvement by dropping their "No Bad Guys Shields" and make raiding its city possible like with the other settlements. I dont get it why the elves should get special treatment and be "Raid Free."
Rational Explanation:

Myon was founded by elves who came from Evermeet. Evermeet is an island that can only be visited by elves. By Forgotten Realms Canon: Few Elves have EVER been permitted to visit Evermeet (the whole island!)

Keeping with such Forgotten Realms canon and lore... it makes perfect sense that Myon was created in the same spirit as Evermeet. Keeping it such may be a pain to some, but it makes Arelith very much in the flavor of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.

OPINION:
Yes, I agree, making Myon accessible to potential evil raiders to attack and pillage it would be more fun -FOR SOME- but it also is a move away from Forgotten Realms specific setting and more towards bland and vanilla D&D.

Here is al ink to Evermeet Info per Forgottern Realms Wiki.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Evermeet
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by Xerah » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:51 pm

I think you underestimate the minority that you're in with liking the mythal.

Not every elven settlement in FR is elf only. Just because one is doesn't make it a step away from FR lore; that's kind of a silly jump. To me, it seems strange that this major rare elven high magic object hasn't turned Myon is to a major city.
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Re: Myon Overhaul?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

It is unlikely to effect anything, but for the sake of ending the argument - why doesn't someone start a poll?
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