Writ level restrictions

[Griefmaker]

It is time to once more bring this up. An OOC mechanism which should not even exist. I get why it was tried, so that high levels cannot carry low level characters through writs, though they lose out on all the kill xp which is often a lot more than the writ xp, but in it is a silly OOC enforcement and has ZERO place on Arelith where everything is supposed to be IC.

Let's get rid of it!

[Vrass]

Sounds good. How about make writs go up to 30 as well. Could limit it to one mission a day or even one mission a week so it does get too crazy?

[Zed]

I agree with both ideas.

At this point those with high level can just leave the party and the same effect is had anyway

[MissEvelyn]

You know where I stand on this.

I say aye! +100000

As for the suggestion of giving higher levels writs, I'm actually for it, but for the reason that it would give players an incentive to go places (especially if they have no idea where to go and what to do once they've hit level 21).

[Sea Shanties]

I'd love epic writs. Not as generous as pre-epic, but still giving you some extra ideas about what to do or reason to party up.

Maybe if they came from NPCs who only gave one mission, were harder to find and who weren't always there? They could be like Tinkers, showing up in different places around the island and you'd have to track them down to get a writ before they're gone again.

[Fionn]

for the reason that it would give players an incentive to go places (especially if they have no idea

I'm not sure writs is working for this. With no IC way to size up who the Registry agent will OOC bar from helping, it's difficult to find a group. Most builds aren't terribly effective solo at low levels. I've sat for RL hours in front of the Mercantile, or in the Nomad looking for help with [Iron Mine, Sewer Gang, etc] and logged off without them done.

OTOH, prior to this change, folk would sit outside the Nomad or Hawk's Nest, and then just follow the train of whatever double leveled 'veteran' was 'training' the lowbies. Neither approach seems to foster good RP IMO.

What I have found effective is higher level PCs hiring help for various tasks (brass ingots, gather bones, etc). Casey Fidock is excellent at this. I've tried to do the same with Wynn - occasionally just hiring porters to carry the loot. What I'm saying is don't expect the Active Admin to fix this in the manner you wish it fixed - RP your toons and Be Nice

[Fionn]

giving you some extra ideas about what to do or reason to party up. Maybe if they came from NPCs who only gave one mission, were harder to find and who weren't always there?

Well, there are the Elk stones. More of that would be fun - not necc whole dungeon locked, but certain halls?

[Sea Shanties]

Sure, but I'm thinking more like, sometimes this or that NPC would be in this or that inn and would have a story to tell with a quest involved. So it would be an epic writ you could only pick up when you can find them. Just an idea.

[TimeAdept]

said it last time, i'll say it again, the change only hurt the people who are already the "worst" or "least efficient" at getting XP, and didn't actually stop the choo choo grindtrains

[JubJub]

I always thought it was ok to limit high lvls from basicly steam rolling low lvls through early writs. But some of these places that you get at lvl 16 will wreck non epics. Black fortress and Huntsman for instance. Also the problem is many of these writs are already in places that epics like to farm. Orclands and Auril temple for instance, so many times you find yourself competing against the epics just to get the needed numbers to finish your writs.


I would love to see epic writs, maybe that give less xp but gold. Writs are fun because it gives you a reason to go places instead of just making it seem like you are blindly out killing everything you see.

Also maybe tone down the adventure xp they give, maybe a little more xp up front but not so much to be stored. My lvl 20 has 140,000 or so stored and that's just from exploration and writs. I have never turned it on to get stored xp from kills. You see when you turn a writ in something like 1,000 xp now and 4,000 stored. Even 1,500 now and 2000 stored would be cool.

[Sailormoon~s No1 Fan]

Personally, I’ve only ever run into trouble on later writs. Golems are one example. Ive had to wait outside so many times while level thirties clear it when it would of been much easier to join up. Also the pool of players seems to be smaller, finding a group is a task within itself.

I’m all for epic writs!

[Ecthelion]

I don't think epic writ should be implemented, it's nice to have to discover places by yourself and seek secret things.
Allow high-level players to steamroll chars on low levels seems to be a bad idea, that'll introduce OOC relationships sometimes, ect. All up for authorizing it on dungeons such as Black Fortress, Malarites, perhaps Morghun the Black, etc ...

[Sea Shanties]

Secrets should be kept secret and areas with highest level in-demand resources have reason enough to visit. Epic writs that send you to areas no one goes to otherwise would be nice, just to keep people moving to different areas and see all the server has to offer.

I think writs at least push people in a direction other than loop-grinding the places with max XP and least resistance. I'd like that to continue through epics. The rewards could lessen after 21 so people don't zoom to 30 in a week, if that's a concern.

[magistrasa]

I'm against pretty much any changes to the writ system's tentpoles - which is to say, no piggybacking off of higher level buddies for breezing through low level writs, and no writs for epic levels. The closest I get to agreeing with either of these ideas is that the level range before you can't help a friend with writs should get bumped a level or two, especially for those higher level ones since I find around level 16 is when you either got outleveled by your old questing buddies or they stopped playing entirely, so you're stuck with a writ you might not have any friends in your range to do it with - especially if you've got limited playtime, which is the demographic writs are supposed to help the most. Maybe that's a personal issue, but I feel like by the time I hit level 16 or 18, all my buddies are level 20+ already and I've fallen too far behind. Then I hang around the writmaster and all anyone's doing is the low level writs that I shouldn't join for because I'm too high a level to help! Even with this experience, though, I don't feel too strongly about cutoff adjustments being a necessary change or anything.

Some form of cutoff should absolutely stay in, though. If you want to grab your low level buddy and powergrind them into the epics, nothing stops you, and you certainly don't need the help of writs in doing so. Dragging along low levels on grind sessions existed before writs, and I don't see why writs need to accommodate that behavior, nor has it made it any harder to do so. Think of it as a trade-off: You can sacrifice the writ EXP for the big buff epic level bodyguard carving a path through Baator for you to ascend to their ranks, OR, you can brave the challenges of Arelith and all the perils that come with a two digit HP pool as you chase after that sweet sweet writ reward. Both are pretty good ways to level up. There's no reason why you need both at once.

I just don't want epic writs because I hate myself and I want to suffer the grind for a few months longer. Okay, but actually, I like the breathing room because it encourages RP beyond the regular writ grind. Since surpassing the cutoff with my main girl, I find myself less concerned with running out into the world and killing everything I find, and I'm much more engaged in my surroundings because, hey, I still got 30k until my next level, but I got 800k in adventure XP, and I usually feel like I'd enjoy meeting people and exploring things and bargaining and crafting and scheming way more than I'd enjoy the ~2k I'd get from killing stuff.

That being said, maybe some secret one-time special epic quests hidden out in the world might be fun to have laying around. Then again, one might say DM events kinda serve that purpose? And while I love discovering any FOIG secrets, I understand if the idea might feel a little too... quasi-MMO for Arelith's tastes.

[JubJub]

As someone else said, epic level writs will help get epics to other areas. The problem is right now where some writs take you to areas where epics like to farm (battlefields/Auril temple/orclands) for instance are spots epics like to go. So you already have to compete with epics.

[Queen Titania]

Off-Topic: If your post is not constructive, don't post. If your post is not nice, don't post it. Deleting offending posts this time, and will send warnings if it repeats.

On-topic: I'm against epic writs. I love leveling, it's one of the most enjoyable things. I like the early levels being faster as it bridges the gap between you and higher level players quickly. No writs 21 and on helps return players to focus on story-making sooner, usually using their bank of experience to boost them the rest of the way with more occasional adventures.

I would love if dungeons not on the writ system were made more rewarding to go to, high risk/high reward instead.

[JubJub]

The problem is 21 and on usually just evolves into grinding to get to 26. Many people don't slow down going out once writs are done it's just now you go out with the epics. Writs are nice to me because it gives a reason for the character to be going out and trying to find new places not to mention encouraging players to actually team up and not always just do the solo grind.

[MissEvelyn]

Maybe in a distant future where haks have been normalized through the sync thingy, the following scenario could be possible:
Higher levels scaling down to lower levels when doing writs together. Perhaps this would be a tad bit too much MMO'ish, but it would STILL be a better solution than the all-mighty, all-knowing writ-giver who apparently always knows who slew the troll you were hired to kill.

[Astral]

I think writs are in a good spot and the way they limit RP is minimal. I heard a lot of explanations IC as to why this person can take these writs and this person cant and I liked some of them. These things are playable.

I'm against Epic writs because from my experience they are simply NOT needed because of how epic dungeon mobs scale between dungeons and how characters scale in epic lvls. There's a HUGE difference in power between a lvl 3 and lvl 10 character but much smaller difference in power between lvl 21 and lvl 27 character. For this reasons, all epic dungeons can be balanced much more easily (including their exp gain) for most epic parties while mid-low lvl dungeons are harder to balance for anything more than the specific level range that is meant to go there. For this reason I feel, writs are restricted and the alternative would be to re-balance dungeons to give less over-all exp and gold to match the fact high lvls can go to low lvl dungeon. Doing so would mostly make it easier for epic characters get to 30, and making it slower for the actual people in the lvl range of the dungeon who's doing the writ with them.

The system is fine it is and there are many different writs, some of them are lvl 14-20. it means a lvl 14 can party with a lvl 22 potentially.

[Aodh Lazuli]

It is time to once more bring this up. An OOC mechanism which should not even exist. I get why it was tried, so that high levels cannot carry low level characters through writs, though they lose out on all the kill xp which is often a lot more than the writ xp, but in it is a silly OOC enforcement and has ZERO place on Arelith where everything is supposed to be IC.

Let's get rid of it!

Okay. Lets restate my original post in a somewhat different manner, given the way I did so previously caused it to be deleted.

Your thread is not feedback. It does not present feedback, but instead a flat out demand for change.

Further, the form in which you present this is not inviting opposing opinions and discussion. Instead it us a statement with an awful lot of "should not" and "lets get rid of it", without any "in my opinion", or "as I see it".in doing so, you fail to recognise the potential for differing views and you invite people to respond in "robust" manner, which I did, and it upset you. My apologies.

The basis of your argument is also incorrect. Not everything on arelith is supposed to be IC. Particularly with regards to considerate gameplay and the rules. We take consideration of other players enjoyment on a largely ooc basis, and guide our IC actions based on those considerations. Many rules and rulings (the 24 hour rule as an example) require IC thought and action to be bent and compromised in favour of sane and reasonable gameplay.

Saying that "everything is supposed to be IC", requires a somewhat selective notion of "everything".

Your line of argument and the change you demand play directly into the hands of those who wish to remove any mechanical challenge from the game, by feeding lower level characters "free" xp. In doing so, such people would clog up dungeons with overlevelled characters, who would cause massive drops in xp for those who encounter and walk with them,but were not participants in the "power levelling" arrangement.

By encouraging higher level characters into lower level dungeons, you also upset pvp encounters significantly. Should an encounter between two parties in a dungeon become hostile, it is quite evident the one containing the higher level character who is there to blast through a writ,it at a strong advantage.

Ooc concerns must impact in game design and behavioural enforcement and guidance. There are behaviours to be encouraged and behaviours to be discouraged. Getting overlevelled characters into lower levelled dungeons definitely falls into the latter.

[Disciprine Come From Within]

I have feedback on how I feel about the writ change. I hate it. When the writ system was first unleashed with full freedom for people to go together without restriction, I saw parties happily going together through dungeons with fun co-operation and lots of RP. People were happy to do writs they didn't have to help other people. People didn't focus as hard on the numbers and I saw so much adventuring from that. Less than a week when the restriction was put in, that died.

I really don't care about the XP part of this. What I care about is the fact that before we had people willing to go together through several places because there was objective reason IC to go to these dungeons. Now, it's the same objective reason but with several focuses on finding people in the right ballpark. It's not fun for either side at it. If the XP bonus needs to go or is changed to adventuring XP and gold, all I care about is seeing people have excuses to go adventuring and it works as a facilitated means of encouraging that. I don't even care if it's a writ system or not.

I just want to see something that encourages people to go out, kill monsters, and have fun on our RP sandbox.

[Nitro]

I really don't care about the XP part of this.

Some of us do care about the XP part. If I go out adventuring, be it alone or with friends, XP is often 90% of the reason we do it. Finding that you can't get at that juicy XP because some epic dingleberry is loitering in a low teens dungeon sucks. It was even worse before the change because epics had even more of a reason to be in lower-level dungeons to help their friends with writs.

[Halibutthead]

i still think writs are bad for the server and only promote the race to 30 with instant gratification

[Lady Astray]

As an epic dingleberry I think I'll give some feedback here. I apologize in advance if I have different opinions than you or whatever.

Recently I went through a low-epic dungeon slightly under my level, and then went back and did a very low level dungeon shortly after. So I'll give some comparison between the two.

Low-Epic Dungeon - I used about 50 +3 healing kits, made about 5000 gold total which I split with the person helping me so after it was all said and done I made 2700 gold. Factoring in the cost of those healing kits I made around 600 gold, that's not even taking into account the potions and lesser restoration scrolls I had to use. I could have solo'd it and made another 2000 gold at the risk of dying and losing 1,000 XP. I don't even gain 1,000 XP from this dungeon. The only loot I found was some lead ore and a useless mundane item, a flute that casts sleep, that would only be good for characters level 1-3.

Low-Level Dungeon - I used about 5 healing kits, only to keep my status at "Uninjured." Didn't really have to use them. Made over 10,000 gold when it was done, found several decent magic items to sell, and lots of coal. Sometimes I find silver and gold also in this dungeon. Plus lots of magic books and scrolls.

To recap, I made twice as much gold and found better loot in the low level dungeon. The low-epic dungeon I used 10x as many healing kits for half as much gold, and didn't even find any decent ores or magic items.

Disregarding the writ system entirely, if I want to farm gold, items, or even XP when playing solo it often makes more sense to go to lower level areas because they actually yield higher rewards for much less risk. When it comes to epic dungeons there are really only a couple I bother with and only when I am lucky enough to join a party of epic level characters because I sure as heck can't solo them. If those higher level dungeons would give high level items instead of items that only affect enemies with 5 or less hit dice, and had some decent ores besides lead and zinc, it might be worth nearly dying to the IGMS spam from the enemies there. Sure, they might give 5-10 xp instead of 1 xp, but when I can kill 5-10 times as many enemies in the lower level dungeons I'm really getting about the same amount of xp either way.

Even when I do get lucky enough to form a party and do RDI, or Auril's Temple, most of the time when we finish there isn't even any good loot. Last time I did Auril's Temple I got some zinc and a single use blowgun. The dragon didn't even spawn at the end due to some kind of bug, so I didn't even get the satisfaction of fighting the boss, which might have been enough to justify that dungeon run. In my opinion higher level dungeons should give WAY more gold for the amount of effort it takes to conquer them. And there should RELIABLY be decent ore and loot, it shouldn't be one out of every ten trips you get lucky and find two chunks of Arjale. It seems the high level dungeons are all balanced around level 30 wizards and sorcerers with epic dragon knights and such who can solo them, but most of us are not level 30 wizards, a lot of us are fighters, rangers, rogues, etc.

So yeah, if you're wondering why you keep finding us "epic dingleberries" in your low level dungeons, it's because we make twice as much gold, the same amount of XP, and often find better ores and magic items for 1/10th the risk and financial investment. Maybe I'm running the wrong dungeons or maybe it's my fault for playing a fighter instead of a wizard. But based on my observations running these dungeons many, many times the rewards for higher level dungeons are consistently lower. More risk should mean more reward. I'll happily start farming level 20+ dungeons when I can make enough gold doing so to pay for the 50 healing kits I use and still turn a decent profit. I'm not even asking that much, just a bit more gold and the occasional mithril or arjale vein would go a long ways. As it is now the level 10-16 dungeons in Skal have way better ore than most of the level 20+ ones on Arelith.

[Aodh Lazuli]

The fact that some low level dungeons vomit money is not strictly relevant to this discussion. It is a problem though... Just one that is parallel to the issue discussed here.

(but seriously, deep giant dolgom)