A simple thing here. Deep Imaskari are a subrace of human. I am guessing the base race was made to be a half elf in order to keep people from getting the extra level 1 feat at character creation.
Personally I think that they should be a Base human race and receive the extra feat, but what do you guys think?
Currently their bonuses are
+2 Int, -2 dex
Lowlight vision
+4 hide
Spell clutch
and Undercommon (Which you can receive by being an outcast)
Seems like its a bit of a large cost to pay a greater reward to only gain +2 int, when you are already paying for a -2 dex. As well I dont think the +4 hide or the Lowlight vision makes up for the feat loss, even with all things considered.
Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
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Seekeepeek
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Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
They are ECL 0 so can take 2 major and one minor gift.
it's the only race that can start with +4 int at creation by only spending a greater reward at present beside the sun elf to my knowledge.
it's the only race that can start with +4 int at creation by only spending a greater reward at present beside the sun elf to my knowledge.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
Right, but a sun elf also doesnt require a greater reward. And they can start anywhere in the world.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
They're awful and could stand to be Human base, tbh.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I dont think they're a greater reward because of their combat power but rather because they're rare beings and the lore behind them is awesome.
The int bonus and the spellclutch ability are neat and can really make a difference on the right build. Calling them awful seems false to me.
But I agree as descendants of the very zenith of humankind they should have the human superpower of extra feat and skill.
As well as darkvision instead of low light vision.
The int bonus and the spellclutch ability are neat and can really make a difference on the right build. Calling them awful seems false to me.
But I agree as descendants of the very zenith of humankind they should have the human superpower of extra feat and skill.
As well as darkvision instead of low light vision.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I 100% agree.
Not sure why the decision was made that imiskari doesnt get a free feat. My only thinking was that it may be a older holdover from early days arelith?
Also the decision / low light vision thing is confusing as well. Imiskaris have darkvision. Very strange decisions
Not sure why the decision was made that imiskari doesnt get a free feat. My only thinking was that it may be a older holdover from early days arelith?
Also the decision / low light vision thing is confusing as well. Imiskaris have darkvision. Very strange decisions
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
Irongron's answer to this suggestion seems to be relevant here viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21046
Basivally: reward races are first and foremost meant to be cool/thematic and not mechanically optimal. I agree that it does create the problem of some of the reward races never being played because they only allow for a very limited range of classes/builds if you do not want to gimp yourself. On the other hand I really think it's wise for reward races to favour the special/thematic side as it would really be a slippery slope if they also seemed mechanically more powerful.
I like that basic humans are probably the best race because it's available to everyone. If you want to min-max, humans are your go-to choice. Back before gifts, planar subraces were locked behind rpr which created the problem of rpr-restricted races being more powerful. It's really good that this was changed. We would not want that same problem with reward races.
I'd say Deep Imiskari are fine as they are. If they were made to have humans as base race I'd slap a +2 ECL on them.
Basivally: reward races are first and foremost meant to be cool/thematic and not mechanically optimal. I agree that it does create the problem of some of the reward races never being played because they only allow for a very limited range of classes/builds if you do not want to gimp yourself. On the other hand I really think it's wise for reward races to favour the special/thematic side as it would really be a slippery slope if they also seemed mechanically more powerful.
I like that basic humans are probably the best race because it's available to everyone. If you want to min-max, humans are your go-to choice. Back before gifts, planar subraces were locked behind rpr which created the problem of rpr-restricted races being more powerful. It's really good that this was changed. We would not want that same problem with reward races.
I'd say Deep Imiskari are fine as they are. If they were made to have humans as base race I'd slap a +2 ECL on them.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
Id be fine with a +2 ECL for the feat, I think anyone would
But lorewise deep imiskaris are human. And theyre a subrace of human, and when you check in game they are labeled human.
The base race of half elf was to deliberately remove the humans bonus feat which in PnP they would have recieved due to being a human subrace
But lorewise deep imiskaris are human. And theyre a subrace of human, and when you check in game they are labeled human.
The base race of half elf was to deliberately remove the humans bonus feat which in PnP they would have recieved due to being a human subrace
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Brandon Steel
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Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
Greater rewards (and deep imaskari, which are pretty much it) are really underwhelming right now and that’s why there’s a big influx of ogres, can’t say I’ve ever seen a deep imaskari.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
Because why would anyone use a greater reward to play a pale skinned human? It's a human subrace with none of the cool factor of any of the other reward races, something that was perfectly doable without any reward at all before the devs put it on the reward menu. If anything Deep imaskari should be moved to the minor awards section because it's on par with forest gnomes and wild dwarves as far as rare and exotic things go.
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Sea Shanties
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Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I would and I did. A Deep Imaskari wizard was fun to play and I had no regrets about their not being uber powered for a greater feat, I chose it because it was weird and alien. And honestly in the UD they are in a nice spot where you don't immediately have racial enemies to avoid or crushing lore to adapt to, it's a rare race that can really reward your own creativity.
In my opinion the problem is there aren't more weird greater races to choose from. There could easy be a dozen other options (hello Githzerai) if not more.
In my opinion the problem is there aren't more weird greater races to choose from. There could easy be a dozen other options (hello Githzerai) if not more.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
You can make something mechanically 'useful' without it being mechanically 'optimal'. Making a Human Imaskari actually be Human is one of those things.Jagel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:17 amIrongron's answer to this suggestion seems to be relevant here viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21046
Basivally: reward races are first and foremost meant to be cool/thematic and not mechanically optimal. I agree that it does create the problem of some of the reward races never being played because they only allow for a very limited range of classes/builds if you do not want to gimp yourself. On the other hand I really think it's wise for reward races to favour the special/thematic side as it would really be a slippery slope if they also seemed mechanically more powerful.
I like that basic humans are probably the best race because it's available to everyone. If you want to min-max, humans are your go-to choice. Back before gifts, planar subraces were locked behind rpr which created the problem of rpr-restricted races being more powerful. It's really good that this was changed. We would not want that same problem with reward races.
I'd say Deep Imiskari are fine as they are. If they were made to have humans as base race I'd slap a +2 ECL on them.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I can't verify this, since I've never seen or played a Deep Imaskari myself, but I've been told that they get the same treatment that Outcasts do - Laurick won't let them on the boats, etc., etc.; I personally think that this, if it's true, ought to be changed posthaste, since as a society the Deep Imaskari aren't inherently evil. They're listed as "typically neutral" (like... regular humans are), and a plurality of their cultural pantheon (2 out of the 5 gods they worship) are Good-aligned, with the remaining gods being 2-Neutral and 1-Evil. I mean, heck, their response to a necromancer overthrowing their government was to rise up in open rebellion, re-overthrow the government, and institute (for what little we know of it) what is presumably a meritocratic magocracy in its stead.
They're very much more akin to Svirfneblin than they are to Drow - except where svirfneblins are xenophobes, the Deep Imaskari are xenophilic: they love meeting and observing strange "new" cultures after spending all their time in isolation. Like svirfs, they're a race of people that happens to live in the Underdark - they aren't down there because they're forced to be down there. They aren't down there by divine edict. They aren't down there because their surfacer cousins want them all dead. They're just people, that live in the Underdark, but who have not absorbed the same culture of evil, violence and predation that subsumes most of the other races in the UD. So, y'know, just give em the Svirf treatment and let each Deep Imaskari decide whether they ultimately belong in Andunor or in Cordor.
They're very much more akin to Svirfneblin than they are to Drow - except where svirfneblins are xenophobes, the Deep Imaskari are xenophilic: they love meeting and observing strange "new" cultures after spending all their time in isolation. Like svirfs, they're a race of people that happens to live in the Underdark - they aren't down there because they're forced to be down there. They aren't down there by divine edict. They aren't down there because their surfacer cousins want them all dead. They're just people, that live in the Underdark, but who have not absorbed the same culture of evil, violence and predation that subsumes most of the other races in the UD. So, y'know, just give em the Svirf treatment and let each Deep Imaskari decide whether they ultimately belong in Andunor or in Cordor.
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I can confirm after making a deep imaskari that they are treated like outcasts on the surface. I will test it further but I do agree with the above. As far as lore goes (and there isnt much honestly) they are seemly quite pleasant to all races because they find them interesting.
The only thing is that I think they would have a bit of problems on the surface because they are from the underdark. But honestly it seems like not many would know that offhand. They are rare enough not to haev a stigma around them. They would or shouldd be treated more as a curiosity than as a reviled race
The only thing is that I think they would have a bit of problems on the surface because they are from the underdark. But honestly it seems like not many would know that offhand. They are rare enough not to haev a stigma around them. They would or shouldd be treated more as a curiosity than as a reviled race
Re: Deep Imaskari Base race: Half-Elf?
I must agree with moust off this....
Deep Imaskari didnt get enough to justify Greater Reward. I can see only reason for them having it as they should be rare. But with current implementation they are even more rare then races and classes from Major reward. And that shouldnt be case.
I would recomend one off those:
1) dump them down to normal award withow any more changes
2) Give them scaling on their unique spell clutch ability... (2 and below as base, 4 and below on lvl 10, 6 and below on lvl 20... I would not go further spells from 7,8,9 are too powerfull to give them any more uses)
3) Give them base race human for that bonus feat and skill points....
4) Give them bonus +2 on Cha to open build options for sorcerers and etc...
5) Let spell clutch to refresh uses off GSF and ESF features (-ward teleport, -teleport, -yoink, etc...)
I am just saying that you get more RP stuff and Mechanical stuff even from some base subraces then from this one from Greater Award....
Deep Imaskari didnt get enough to justify Greater Reward. I can see only reason for them having it as they should be rare. But with current implementation they are even more rare then races and classes from Major reward. And that shouldnt be case.
I would recomend one off those:
1) dump them down to normal award withow any more changes
2) Give them scaling on their unique spell clutch ability... (2 and below as base, 4 and below on lvl 10, 6 and below on lvl 20... I would not go further spells from 7,8,9 are too powerfull to give them any more uses)
3) Give them base race human for that bonus feat and skill points....
4) Give them bonus +2 on Cha to open build options for sorcerers and etc...
5) Let spell clutch to refresh uses off GSF and ESF features (-ward teleport, -teleport, -yoink, etc...)
I am just saying that you get more RP stuff and Mechanical stuff even from some base subraces then from this one from Greater Award....