Remove Language Limit?

[Hazard]

unless you're cheesing it with spam.. which I think should be reported.

AFAIK, the system is designed with limits that make spam ineffective, unless you're spamming for hours on end.

Ohsweet.

[Queen Titania]

Spammers caught in the past have had their RP Rating reduced to zero (As they are acting OOC), so yes, please report.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

Lore would definitely be a better stand-in for the linguistics skill than the current INT based language system.

I think it would be a good idea to remove the 41 lore check to understand a language also, if the lore skill becomes tied to learning a language.

It feels very strange for people to understand other languages with perfect clarity without being able to speak a word of them. This change would keep a purpose to lore beyond identifying items without the strangeness of the current lore/language interaction.

[Ebonstar]

i agree about the lore to language but some languages should be unlearnable

drow sign, animal, thieves cant when its even used

for example you can watch a listen to birds for years, but you still dont have a clue what they are saying. moods could be read but actual words no

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

In keeping with the trend of tumble and spellcraft’s bonuses, if there needs to be a cap with a lore based language system I’d have an additional language become learnable every 5 points invested into lore (not counting int bonus or temporary skill boosts).

5 lore = one more language
10 = two more languages, etc.

And of course faster learning as lore skill rises.

[Griefmaker]

In keeping with the trend of tumble and spellcraft’s bonuses, if there needs to be a cap with a lore based language system I’d have an additional language become learnable every 5 points invested into lore (not counting int bonus or temporary skill boosts).

5 lore = one more language
10 = two more languages, etc.

And of course faster learning as lore skill rises.

I like something along the lines of this. Though I think including the lore gained through bard levels should be added as well. Traveling bards who visit other lands and hear the languages and dialects seem most likely to me to be able to speak many languages with ease.

[Hazard]

In keeping with the trend of tumble and spellcraft’s bonuses, if there needs to be a cap with a lore based language system I’d have an additional language become learnable every 5 points invested into lore (not counting int bonus or temporary skill boosts).

5 lore = one more language
10 = two more languages, etc.

And of course faster learning as lore skill rises.

I like something along the lines of this. Though I think including the lore gained through bard levels should be added as well. Traveling bards who visit other lands and hear the languages and dialects seem most likely to me to be able to speak many languages with ease.

That's a good point. Wizards have been mentioned, and as the masters of learning and being SMORT it's fine to me that they have an advantage when it comes to ... well, learning.

But I totally forgot about bards. Bards wouldn't just be musicians, but actors and all sorts of things. Very capable of learning and adapting. I agree that bard lore should count!

[magistrasa]

I feel it's important to note that not all characters who take the bard class are "bards" in the traditional sense, so I don't know about justifying a bonus on a character trait that's far from universal. At risk of sounding like I hate fun, I'm against the idea of bardic knowledge augmenting a lore-based language cap for that reason.

[flower]

Are we really making it worse for non wizard classes to learn languages?

Because tieing it to the lore would shut it down for most of those classes with 2+ skill gain.

[The Rambling Midget]

Are we really making it worse for non wizard classes to learn languages?

I'm looking for any suggestion that will make players more willing to learn and use non-innate languages.

[Hunter548]

Are we really making it worse for non wizard classes to learn languages?

I'm looking for any suggestion that will make players more willing to learn and use non-innate languages.

Making them easier to learn would be a big help for this. Listening to people roleplay for a few weeks before you even know what they're saying is just annoying.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

I just want the story of an 8 wis LG fighter learning languages from his cleric friend.


Then he finds out when he’s fluent enough to understand that the guy has been preaching Cyric to him the whole time, and that this is Abyssal not Celestial.

[Hazard]

I feel it's important to note that not all characters who take the bard class are "bards" in the traditional sense, so I don't know about justifying a bonus on a character trait that's far from universal. At risk of sounding like I hate fun, I'm against the idea of bardic knowledge augmenting a lore-based language cap for that reason.

That's a fair point too.

Are we really making it worse for non wizard classes to learn languages?

Because tieing it to the lore would shut it down for most of those classes with 2+ skill gain.

It would allow my druids, clerics, sorcs and bards to learn a lot more languages. I don't see it 'shut down' for most classes. I see it opening up, and incentivising an RP skill, which IMO is a good thing on an RP server.

The fact Arelith has become so obsessed with powergaming PvE and PvP but completely uninterested in RP skills/builds I see as weird. Min-maxing? Heck yes, it's d&d, optimisation? Of course. We love it. But it's a roleplay server and there should be incentive to do things other than just fight. Of course I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting to focus on the fighting part if that's your thing, but that can't be the only option for every player with any cookies in it.

AFAIK every class is able to invest more into int and therefor afford picking up lore if they want their character to be 'well-read/learned'.

Personally I always pump lore on characters that I feel should have it, like priests especially. So yeah... I see this as a good thing and making languages more accessible, not less accessible.

Are we really making it worse for non wizard classes to learn languages?

I'm looking for any suggestion that will make players more willing to learn and use non-innate languages.

Enchanting is a great reason for mages to seek out learning powerful languages, and it created a lot of fun RP for my own enchanter. I think there's enough languages in the enchanting system, but maybe another mechanical carrot-on-stick for the other things would get people learning.

If languages were harder to understand (no lore translation or nerfed) then you'd experience a lot more moments of "I don't know what they're saying and I really want to." which would make you want to learn your friends language, or your enemies. If you have a character that is heavily involved in Bendir but isn't hin for example, eventually they'd really want to pick it up!

Maybe slightly better bartering in settlements you speak the native language of? So which ever town you do your business in most, eventually you may want to pick up their language. It would also have the secondary benefit of encouraging races to find their racial settlement.

Something I'd really like to see, is the ability to add names/descriptions to things (items/fixtures/whatever) WITH the language system, so that it appears as English (common) if you successfully translate it, but otherwise doesn't. I don't think that's even possible though, but it sure would be cool and fun.

Maybe locking low level craftables behind languages could make sense? As in, you need to know the language to really understand the recipes and traditions behind making it. Some examples might be hinnish pies, or elven bread, or dwarven/gnomish beverages.
I am sure there are plenty of little things for each race we could come up with, that would have a low enough DC that even 1 point investment would have a fair chance of making IF you speak the language. That could be fun! Maybe they're mundanes that do something. Strongest alcohol. Most filling food. More refreshing drink. Slight skill/attribute boost that lasts 24 hours. Whatever.

Just brainstorming while I drink coffee! I think this reply has gotten too long.

[flower]

On all my characters (paladins, wms, clerics) I made shift from constitution and strenght into INt to get more skill points to cover least few bits of features (7 lore to identify loot, few points into riding etc). Even then i had to shift skill points from main skills like heal, discipline, spellcraft. Now you want to tie languages to lore, which would in effect, shut down languages for my characters worse than INT modifier does despite that i already moved points from main attributes into int.

[The Rambling Midget]

Unless I'm mixing up my RPGs, the Hawkmoon system did skill advancement by having you roll percentiles against your current skill rank (1-100), and if you rolled above that rank, your skill would increase by another die roll. If you're terrible at something, it's nearly always a learning experience, but once you get very good at it, you have to do it a lot more to learn anything new.

I wonder if a system like that could be used to make language learning faster at the beginning, in order to get players invested, but difficult to completely master.

[Hazard]

Unless I'm mixing up my RPGs, the Hawkmoon system did skill advancement by having you roll percentiles against your current skill rank (1-100), and if you rolled above that rank, your skill would increase by another die roll. If you're terrible at something, it's nearly always a learning experience, but once you get very good at it, you have to do it a lot more to learn anything new.

I wonder if a system like that could be used to make language learning faster at the beginning, in order to get players invested, but difficult to completely master.

That sounds fun and fair to me.