Lenses change

[flower]

Ok, answering to this!
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21538


It is going to be really bad change.

* It strips non casters of ways to travel.
* Together with further restricted portals it would just increase annoyance players are exposed to
* To travelling you need to dedicate more time spent on other things
* Forcing characters into "hubes" kills diversity as not everyone can anywhere. I had great time seeking for transition zone to UD/Surface when killed in pvp on Distant shores, forced to respawn there.

Is there really a reson to do this change? "Preloading" is forbidden anyway and seen as exploit.

[Nobs]

Think it wil be a good change , as you wil see more people on the roads and that meens more chance to rp.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

All those are good things as far as I am concerned. All of them add more immersion to the world.

[flower]

Think it wil be a good change , as you wil see more people on the roads and that meens more chance to rp.

You mean more chances to pvp? Like removal of RDI portal forcing people to také ships to endure three linie pvp from pirates?

Oh well, we will see.

[Royal Blood]

Is there a way to see where your respawn point is? If not in like the rest menu or something they should have a dialog option that shows you where you respawn at so you know where you're going with your lense O_O

[Nitro]

Think it wil be a good change , as you wil see more people on the roads and that meens more chance to rp.

I mean no, this would just mean that everyone puts their respawn point next to a two-way portal, AKA the arcane tower so they can continue to use lenses as before with an additional transition between them. What this will actually do is make PvP encounters pretty awkward as both aggressors and defenders respawn at the same place because it's now the only convenient respawn location.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

It still means more rp, around said portal hubs. Not a bad thing for people to run into others. It also makes becoming an outlaw a harsher punishment if you cant as easily use said hubs.

[flower]

Think it wil be a good change , as you wil see more people on the roads and that meens more chance to rp.

I mean no, this would just mean that everyone puts their respawn point next to a two-way portal, AKA the arcane tower so they can continue to use lenses as before with an additional transition between them. What this will actually do is make PvP encounters pretty awkward as both aggressors and defenders respawn at the same place because it's now the only convenient respawn location.

Lol, that. You lens off from criminals and They lens off to the same location like you do because it is only one with source portal, effectively channeling all pvp into few areas.

It also means why ambush someone on road lets wait on one or two spots on server and kill people who use lens during their travels.

[Nobs]

Think it wil be a good change , as you wil see more people on the roads and that meens more chance to rp.

You mean more chances to pvp? Like removal of RDI portal forcing people to také ships to endure three linie pvp from pirates?

Oh well, we will see.

Oh boy...*Taps out of this forums post*

[Lady Astray]

I actually went through the trouble of registering a forum account JUST to reply to this thread and state that I am firmly against changing portal lenses. I'll list some reasons why.

1. LORE

The Portal Lens is a canonical item with established lore that is pretty simple to understand.

"This magical device can form a gateway to other locations by temporarily attaching itself to known, existing portals. This allows the user access to the portal without traveling to it." - Source: http://torment.wikia.com/wiki/Portal_Lens

Notice the underlined part. Portals. Not gravestone or docks. If a portal lens doesn't take you to a portal then why call it a portal lens? You might as well call it a Dimensional Anchor or something and reduce the price to like 500 gold if you're going to strip all the utility and lore of the item to the point it isn't even a real portal lens anymore.

2. PVP

I like having a way out of PVP sometimes. If my character is alone trying to gather resources in a low level area and a gang of level 30 slavers from the Underdark show up, why wouldn't she use a portal lens to get to safety? I also like being able to choose where she flees to. If I'm in the same area as my respawn point or nearby it, and I get ambushed by a bunch of people wanting to torture my character and chop her ears off, I'd REALLY like the option to teleport her to another safe place of my choosing, rather than being caught again 3 minutes later because they decided to run laps around my settlement.

Also lets be real. Even if this change is implemented most of the time player characters will still be able to escape unwanted PVP scenarios. On top of this it will discourage people even more from travelling alone. Is that really what you evil character players want? To have no more lone newbies to pick on? You want every group you encounter on the surface to be a gang of fully warded level 30 epic paladins? Because that's what will happen if this change is implemented. All it will do is make most of us surface players play less and travel in large fully warded groups with armies of gold and silver dragons when we do.

3. Cost/Balance

The main argument in this suggestion is that it makes the -teleport command seem less useful because anyone can do it with a portal lens. Even if you remove portal lenses though, I can spend about 5 minutes walking to the nearest portal source, and still teleport anywhere. Myself and most other players barely ever use portal lenses as it is because there is a portal source every 15 minutes and wasting 3500 gold just to save yourself 5 minutes of walking is almost never worth it unless your life is at risk. Mages with -teleport are able to just instantly be wherever whenever though at no additional cost so I don't see why this needs to be balanced. They essentially get infinite free portal lenses which should be enough.

On top of this there is another spell that lets you ward an area from teleportation. So evil players already have a solution to portal lenses. If we nerf portal lenses then we are also pretty much nerfing ward against teleport. Players who spent epic feats to be able to do that would really be getting the shaft because now any dumb ogre or kobold could just run laps around settlements until they find the respawn point and then capture slaves all day and night while their level 30 evil wizard specifically built to counter portal lenses and -teleport is sitting there with a bunch of now wasted feats unless they decide to -loseexp and spend hours grinding. The way I see it things are balanced as it is and portal lenses shouldn't be changed.

4. Consent

Just hearing about some of the torture and slave RP that goes on makes me squirm. Quite frankly I will never consent to it and you can't force me to. Not through in game mechanics. I keep -unrelent on so if you ever do corner me and force me into PVPing you the worst you can do is make me lose some XP and say you beat me up or killed me or whatever. There are plenty of players willing to engage in that stuff and plenty of newbies who get forced into it because they can't afford a portal lens or don't know about the -unrelent command. It's not my cup of tea though and I'm not doing it. If portal lenses are nerfed pretty soon I'm sure a bunch of people are going to start crying about -unrelent and saying they should be able to tie my character up and chop her ears off and stuff. Know what my response will be when -unrelent gets taken away? I'll log off. I log into the server to role play an epic hero, to escape from real life and indulge in my own power fantasy. Not to satisfy your BDSM/Gore Fetishes. I'm not going to be your play thing in RP no matter how much you cry to the DM's or the devs to change the rules and game mechanics. Deal with it.

[flower]

Lady Astray not sure if you have gone trough pending suggestion, but there is also item with -ward ability…


Just add it on top of the nerfed lenses and They do not even mage to shut down travelling on server.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

I am stunned. Not because I think people should be forced to become slaves or be tortured, or that constant pvp is a good thing, but because of that mindset there. That players are entitled to their power fantasy without obstruction, and anyone who threatens that is bad, and needs to go away. Or worse is slandered as some kind of deviant. If its easy to be an epic hero, if one does not need to confront harrowing evil to claim that mantle, then what is the purpose? Why play arelith over co-op, or some bioware singleplayer power fantasy?

What happened to the mindset presented here? http://wiki.arelith.com/When_Bad_Things ... dventurers

You have it all together. You have a heart full of ambition. You have a purpose, a cause, a star to follow, and nothing is going to stand in your way! Then life drops a fireball at your feet.

You lost your death-bringing sword to a pickpocket, you ran into a party of marauders, someone called you names, or things just didn't go as planned. Buck up, young adventurer, all is not lost! Even the bad things that happen to you may lead to new opportunities. There is much more to do than sit and curse the gods or bemoan cruel fate.

Instead, you could: Take it in stride. Take the matter to a city official. Start a movement. Use it as an opportunity to build ties. Band together with a group for mutual support. Join a pre-existing organization for support. Redouble your determination. Develop a sympathy for the suffering of others. Spread the word and warn others of whatever it is that happened to you. Go along with it. Build on it.

Don't just ride with the current, propel it! See how far the ripples reach. Remember that your character is not you. Think about who your character would actually turn to in need. A friend? A mentor? Himself? If needed support or sympathy isn't there, how does that affect them? Keep asking, now what? And answer!

Avoid angst. Everyone wants to be angsty because it's so dark and impressive and makes everyone love you... only not. It's really not that special. There's more to you than that. Who can afford to spend all that time brooding, (and hours upon hours of brooding are required for angst) when there are monsters to be splatted, governments to build and topple, intrigues to make intriguing, gods to please and appease and generally a lot of stuff that's far more fun and interesting for everyone involved? Keep things in perspective. Lost a bit of gold in a robbery? Well, you escaped with your life. Got smacked down? Well, you just learned not to tease an ancient dragon about its age. And, c'mon, admit it. It makes the game fun and interesting.

Remember that you are an adventurer. Adventurers live dangerous lives, full of all kinds of risks. Something bad will happen eventually. Plan ahead. Don't do things unless you're willing to accept the consequences. Realize that the consequences might extend to things you haven't planned for. And, when bad things do happen, look for tangles of cause and effect. Why did it happen? What led to it? Is it not fair, or just not something you wanted? Is it the result of a dangerous world? Is there a good story hidden in it? If then what?

If then... if then... what if?

Take it in stride.

[flower]

Own experiences with villain characters? Také it as you would

[Xerah]

This is an excellent change worthy of a trial at the very least. There is a fine line between too much and too little fast travel and we’re at the too much.

I’m with Gobbo on the other stuff.

[Lady Astray]

Time to make bigger parties and befriend all those crazy zealot paladins I guess.

[ActionReplay]

I personally think lenses should stay the way they are. Perhaps add a duration for its use though, like it takes a few seconds for it to activate meaning one could get disrupted if trying to escape with it in a tight situation.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

On top of this there is another spell that lets you ward an area from teleportation. So evil players already have a solution to portal lenses. If we nerf portal lenses then we are also pretty much nerfing ward against teleport.

------------

I log into the server to role play an epic hero, to escape from real life and indulge in my own power fantasy. Not to satisfy your BDSM/Gore Fetishes. I'm not going to be your play thing in RP no matter how much you cry to the DM's or the devs to change the rules and game mechanics. Deal with it.

I was going to let this one pass, but the toxic content here demands a responce.

Players who play evil, are not evil themselves, OOC.

Players who who play evil are not looking to violate your to satisfy their "bdsm/gore fetishes".

You are making sickening implications, and attacking the character of a great many players who chose to add to the server by playing evil, villainious, and sinister pcs. This is neither against server rules, or a demerit against their moral character.

[dominantdrowess]

I disagree with you on this one Flower.

This is an important change, I believe.

While it probably deserves adjustment ... I believe a major issue at the moment is large armies moving to fast, and too far, with too much easy coordination and it's leading to -massive- faction friction, because people are /expected/ to keep up with this. I am always for empowering existing feats as well~ I think conjuration deserves the inadvertent buff.

I also, strongly disagree with Lady Astray's characterization of large swaths of the player-base in the strongest possible terms and find it relatively offensive -- and I do not appreciate the mud-slinging.

[Ebonstar]

yeah a way to not escape a pvp situation is not what is needed.

Road RP happens when it happens its a road, but also will throw pvp at lowbies who have to use roads simply because its their only way to travel

now if you want to put a limit on say if you use a lens at lvl 25 or up can only go to the closest source portal, ok I can see that.

However making it so you had to lens to one of the few source hubs means you would run into stupid amounts of unwanted rp and pvp from both sides who after a long trip and have dwindling consumables and poof find themselves face to face with team good/evil fully prepped and warded and it creates an instant mismatch.

I would vote no to any change that creates such limitations

[flower]

I disagree with you on this one Flower.

This is an important change, I believe.

While it probably deserves adjustment ... I believe a major issue at the moment is large armies moving to fast, and too far, with too much easy coordination and it's leading to -massive- faction friction, because people are /expected/ to keep up with this. I am always for empowering existing feats as well~ I think conjuration deserves the inadvertent buff.

I also, strongly disagree with Lady Astray's characterization of large swaths of the player-base in the strongest possible terms and find it offensive.

Majority of gaming is on individual characters or groups of adventurers, not about large armies clashing together. Teleporting to respawn points located near hubs will not solve this issue. It will just make these armies camp at these spawn points waiting for travellers to jump to them, and it does not matter if it happens in UD or on surface. Setting all these spawn points with guards (because portal sources are usually only by settlements/things) will inevitable lead to nerfing game for any character playing out of streamlinied boundaries. Your lonely drow crossing surface won't be able to reach this location because of the guards. Just an example. It can be anyone instead of lonely drow, warlock? Well known villain?

These hubs are located also on crossroads. So you cannot bypas it by road as well. Even if you added multiple portals and spawn points, They still would be in handful number. This systém is not worth the work and effort put into it. Not everyone plays shiny paladin worshipped in all settlements and not everyone plays a villain from below who only walks to surface to kill. This solution would not make differences between characters and split the server on black and white where each side would camp their spawn point.


Edit: And now just add that crafted item providing -ward. Oh my.

[Griefmaker]

I too think lenses should stay as they are. As it is, we have only one place worthwhile on the surface to respawn if this change is approved: The Arcane Tower. The UD is quite different, since there are portals everywhere down there and numerous portal sources, which is actually kind of nice. But the surface is long maps with lots of walking to get to a portal source, especially from most respawn points.

Why have your repsawn point in Cordor (ugh, that would be horrible since there are no sources anywhere close unless you belong to certain factions), or Myon or the Grove, or Brog, or Guldorand or any of the various places which are out of the way when you have to travel another 10ish minutes or more to get to a place with a portal source? (This of course excludes those who run about everywhere, which cuts down on time, admittedly, but is lame on all accounts).

This is not a big deal if you are a caster and can create teleports or simply -teleport where you might wish. But this is a direct pain in the Snuggybear for non-casters and really is not useful to the server. Unless we wish everyone to make casters henceforth since QoL is often a consideration when making a character. I know after playing casters and going to mundane characters that I miss all of the QoL a caster has to offer. This would see many more players avoid mundane classes all the more.

Another option which would be very unpopular since many think there are too many portals already is to make more respawn locations and have a portal source next to them. That would suck, I think.

An even better option would be to have a cheap item that can be crafted which would work as the proposed change to lenses would and leave lenses as they are. The cheaper option would be far more limited, but far more available.

[Hunter548]

This is an awful, merit-less change to prevent something DMs have already said is an exploit to begin with.

It also means, presumably, lenses would stop functioning cross-server again.

[JubJub]

This seems like a fix to an issue that's not really an issue.

[Lady Astray]

I apologize for offending some of you. Not trying to sling mud or insult anyone. I worded that part poorly.

[magistrasa]

Keep in mind that the boss man also approved the idea of having more respawn points out in the world anyways. And there's already quite a few hidden, out-of-the-way places to respawn as it is, which I've always immediately gravitated towards so I'm NOT respawning in potentially crowded areas

Not only that, but if you're running to a crowded RP hub to escape PvP... doesn't that kinda create RP if you do get chased? Now you get to point your finger to a full room at the prick who assaulted you like, "Hey! He's trying to kill me!" And the Tower, I'm sure, will be happy to handle the situation.

If it's surface v. UD you will never encounter that anyways because UDers can't take surface respawn points (not mechanically barred, but, y'know, banned from the surface by rules). Also, if you're worried about being forced into some perverse torture fantasy, let me just say that 1) no one actually does that, at the very least not to the extent that's being hyperbolically described, without explicit and repeated OOC consent, because everyone knows they'll get banned for that behavior, and 2) if someone is doing that just call a DM and they will probably ban them for that behavior, and they will definitely remove you from that situation and give you the OK to ignore it happened. This is a PG-13 server, it's literally against the rules.

As it stands now, lenses are regularly getting exploited in PvP. Literally, as in, against-the-rules exploiting. On top of that, a key feature of an epic feat is rendered basically worthless by the overabundance of fast travel options. The suggestion I made was NOT so that there was no more Get Out Of PvP Button - it was made specifically to remedy the two issues I just stated, while maintaining the spirit and utility of the portal lens. I know a vast majority of players (myself included!) find them necessary to escape RP or dungeons when something suddenly comes up and you can't play anymore. That's fine! I know a sizeable portion of the playerbase also wants to use them to escape from unwanted RP or PvP. No judgment! You can still do both of these things with my proposed change. It just makes epic transmuters less redundant, and removes the possibility of a common exploit. Sorry if that's an inconvenience, but I promise it's not going to destroy the game. Please at least give it a try.