Lenses change

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LichBait
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Re: Lenses change

Post by LichBait » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:00 pm

I'd be for this change.

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The Kriv
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Re: Lenses change

Post by The Kriv » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:11 am

Awesome discussion. Sorry I only got to Page 3.

Here's a 'what if' for the scenario to modify the mechanic of how you use the portal-lens, that puts the Kaibosh (sp?) on the exploit and introduces some dynamics of RP as well.

If the core of the matter is the pre-loading of the lens as an exploit, maybe a small mechanic change removing the menu-driven use to a literal "spoken" use.

By that, I mean... "use" the lens, it becomes receptive to YOUR voice to speak into it, yes, by talking.... which then loads the destination. Once the destination is loaded, you THEN crush it (activating it) and it takes you to the location in which you chose through literally speaking into it.

The lens object itself once the active listening mode is turned on has a limited number of words that the owner can speak before it shuts down and must be re-activated to enable 'listening' mode again... so you can't activate it, and then recite three acts of King Lear and then utter your portal destination and *Poof*... which means it gives opportunity for folk to drop a ward to stop you...

Although, you can still technically "pre-load" the lens...should you activate it and stay SILENT.... but a very easy spell of "silence" will become the new interrupt.


Just a thought on an alternate mechanic that supports RP, enables the use and destroys the exploit.


-if you wanted to be OOC efficient with the "spoken lens" you could create a hotbar presets to "speak" your favorite portal-locations to actively hot-button the location in a jiff.. but if you're like me... your hot-bar is already chock full of stuff, so you would need to choose carefully.

The additional benefit of this in PVP is that, yes you can escape quickly... your foe knows where you went if they were close enough to hear you speak your destination.


An alternate use of the lens to get a list of your attuned destinations can be brought up so you can get the correct spelling of your destination.

Okay that's it for me... , I'm out. *takes out his lens... speaks words into it... crushes the lens... and vanishes.*
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Atlantahammy
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Re: Lenses change

Post by Atlantahammy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:56 am

The Kriv wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:11 am
Awesome discussion. Sorry I only got to Page 3.

Here's a 'what if' for the scenario to modify the mechanic of how you use the portal-lens, that puts the Kaibosh (sp?) on the exploit and introduces some dynamics of RP as well.

If the core of the matter is the pre-loading of the lens as an exploit, maybe a small mechanic change removing the menu-driven use to a literal "spoken" use.

By that, I mean... "use" the lens, it becomes receptive to YOUR voice to speak into it, yes, by talking.... which then loads the destination. Once the destination is loaded, you THEN crush it (activating it) and it takes you to the location in which you chose through literally speaking into it.

The lens object itself once the active listening mode is turned on has a limited number of words that the owner can speak before it shuts down and must be re-activated to enable 'listening' mode again... so you can't activate it, and then recite three acts of King Lear and then utter your portal destination and *Poof*... which means it gives opportunity for folk to drop a ward to stop you...

Although, you can still technically "pre-load" the lens...should you activate it and stay SILENT.... but a very easy spell of "silence" will become the new interrupt.


Just a thought on an alternate mechanic that supports RP, enables the use and destroys the exploit.


-if you wanted to be OOC efficient with the "spoken lens" you could create a hotbar presets to "speak" your favorite portal-locations to actively hot-button the location in a jiff.. but if you're like me... your hot-bar is already chock full of stuff, so you would need to choose carefully.

The additional benefit of this in PVP is that, yes you can escape quickly... your foe knows where you went if they were close enough to hear you speak your destination.


An alternate use of the lens to get a list of your attuned destinations can be brought up so you can get the correct spelling of your destination.

Okay that's it for me... , I'm out. *takes out his lens... speaks words into it... crushes the lens... and vanishes.*
There is a bit of a problem with this idea, as it fixes one exploit, then creates another.

This would mean people would have to give people time to type out the location, if it requires people actually SPEAKING the location, and currently there is enough problems with people not giving others enough time to even reply before their PVP'ed, (Part of why people actually don't use roads, cause once night hits, there drow camping the Arelith forest, killing any lowbie out and about, this was common in the past before stoneholds stairs got wrecked.) specially for people like me who are not just slow typers, but dyslexic, thus I sometimes need to re-spell out the place more then once... And lets not even start with the hell for ESL people.

So it also becomes very user un-friendly, and leads to more reports the DM's will have to deal with with the PVP and be nice rules, not to mention it alone sounds overly complicated to the point it would take over a MINUTE to get anything done with it, and thus incentive's metagaming.

My opinion on the matter is, I think people are trying to over complicate trying to fix this exploit, unless I'm mistaking here, a code can be made to make the check to see if something, like the adjurers ward, is active in the area or not, repeat itself every 10 - 15 seconds the lens is open, and that would be that is needed. (Keep in mind that's a hypothetical, as that could also cause ALOT of lag and why it's not a thing already.)

Now that wouldn't prevent people form pre-loading for none-blocked encounters, but It would cut it down, and it would just come down to people reporting, after all the models give an interacting animation that a tell-tale they got a lens loaded.

I'm with Lazuli, its mostly going to come down to peoples attitudes, which isn't going to happen over night.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (Well in this case, it's slightly cracked, but people are making it out like it's totally shattered.)

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Dagonlives » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:54 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:40 pm
dominantdrowess wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm
@Aodh Lazuli
The reason I like the lens changes is if lenses go to a pre-determined location (such as your spawn point) ... then they can't be preloaded because of a menu hanging open. This is a positive effect for options 1 and 2.
But surely the preloading issue could be solved in any number of ways that do not involve making lenses more annoying for other purposes. For example, a timer on their use, whereby after you click your destination, there is a visual effect and a delay before actually being transported there. A floaty bit of text that appears above someone's head that says "X has just used a portal lens"... And so on...

These wouldn't interfere with all the other uses for lenses. And wuld only impact upon the behaviour deemed negative.

The thing is when I said "are you doing it to resolve this issue?", regarrding escape from pvp using preloaded portal menus... I got the answer from the person who suggested this in the first place, that this wasn't the intention.


However, once again, people are looking at a situation as if the thing people are complaining about is the actual problem.

Are people are using exploitative and frustrating means to escape pvp?
- Yes.

Why?
- Because they don't like the way people are conducting pvp and feel they're unduly subjected to the whims of other players and feel like they lack agency in the encounter.

Is this a legitimate issue?
- Yes.

Is the problem with people not being willing to lose?
- Yes.

Is the problem also with people being a little too eager to get their captive and not really having much regard for the loser in certain situations?
- Yes.


Is the solution to both of those underlying issues a better program of education for the playerbase and orchestrating a shift in player culture to make pvp less of an emotive issue for all participants win OR lose, rather than weird mechanical solutions to problems that also impact on perfectly acceptable behaviour?
- Absolutely.
Just do what this guy says. I've already suggested throwing a interruptable cooldown timer to activate lenses (6-12 or 1-2 rounds) with an emote because half the problem was that it happened too quickly. Fixes the exploit and makes the mechanic less abusive.

Also, if people are pissed off about drow or underdark monsters killing them in the woods, maybe they should consider this can only happen at night. Forgotten realms is a dangerous place. Normal peasants go inside when the sun gets low or behind the safety of high stone walls.

That people are scared to travel on certain roads is a good thing. Getting attacked while travelling is a good thing. It keeps the server interesting and forwards a narrative. Bad Things Happen To Good Adventurers.
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flower
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Re: Lenses change

Post by flower » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:01 pm

There is no reason to make this and force people into pvp.

Because that will happen. The trigger you suggest is on purpose that long to get kill on people portalling.

If someone does not wish to engage in the conflict in given minute from whatever reason, They are free to do so, and how much happily do you think will They play around with you being forced to fight.

They will most likely keep filling reports on your wordless attacks because if you chargé them on use of lens you hardly will have time to speak. Also the condition for interaction is to give other party chance to react (be it run, fight, or teleporting away).

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Re: Lenses change

Post by TroubledWaters » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:21 pm

People are forced into PvP because there are IC consequences for IC actions.

Some don't want to be forced into PvP because they prefer to be able to say/smash/pickpocket/do whatever they want to whomever they want and be able to avoid IC consequences.

There is an inherent tension between IC consequences for IC actions and player freedom of escaping PvP. You'd expect more of the latter on a social server than you would an RP server.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:35 pm

I think that in a way, TrouibledWaters gets at the heart of the matter with their post.

On the one hand: When someone has been doing something to earn your characters ire, over and over again, and is using lenses to escape risk free without any chance of capture or reprocussion - that can be very irritating.

On the other hand: When someone leaps out at you and wants to pvp you, without any apparent 'reason' for it beyong 'mwahaha I am evil and want to capture/torture/enslave/kill your character! 'cos I am ebil!' that can also be frustrating to some players.

I suppose the answer, either way, is not so much a matter of mechanics but a matter of well, giving chances for either party to let their narrative form.

If you are causing trouble for another pc - don't lense immedatly. Consider a little quid-pro-quo and give them at least a faint opportunity to strike back.

If you are out just causing mayhem and evil consider giving some of your 'victims' a chance to lense out if they want to. If they're not interested in the sort of rp you're offering, then all you're really doing to them is hurting their OOC feelings, and forcing them to loose some xp. That doesn't build story, that just hurts feelings and makes other players miserable.
This too shall pass.

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flower
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Re: Lenses change

Post by flower » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:33 pm

DM Grumpy has nailed it.

If there is a griefer who keeps harrasing someone and lensing, change to lenses is not going to change the mindset of person and often no matter how many times killed will not stop them too.

If elf runs into drow party or drow into eager elven hunters that is no IC consequences and I also see no reason why to change lenses because this guy does not wish to engage.

Surfacers going into UD dungeons and vice versa are neither "consequences".

Forcing random encountered guy into PvP does build any story and will just result in this player to want to have nothing to do with you at all.
Last edited by flower on Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by flower » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:54 pm

Also would you list these mysterious IC consequences you are talking of? The only ones ever possible need player willing to play them out nd of they did not like PvP with you they will never play any.

The death itself has no consequences but being shut down from dungeons for cca two hours.

You really think it would stop person to slander your character?

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:09 pm

Flower please stop derailing this thread.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by dominantdrowess » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:58 pm

I agree Flower, other people are giving multiple angles, and you're just spamming the same point over and over, that isn't how discussion works.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by The Kriv » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 am

Atlantahammy wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:56 am
The Kriv wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:11 am
... you could create a hotbar presets to "speak" your favorite portal-locations to actively hot-button the location in a jiff.. but if you're like me... your hot-bar is already chock full of stuff, so you would need to choose carefully.

The additional benefit of this in PVP is that, yes you can escape quickly... your foe knows where you went if they were close enough to hear you speak your destination.
There is a bit of a problem with this idea, as it fixes one exploit, then creates another.

This would mean people would have to give people time to type out the location, if it requires people actually SPEAKING the location, and currently, there is enough problems with people not giving others enough time to even reply before their PVP'ed,
So, AtlHam, I snipped my original post that addressed this. If you needed to 'escape' quickly with a lens... or if you 'wanted' the option of quickly activating the lens - WITHOUT - needing to type out " A-R-E-L-I-T-H_-F-O-R-E-S-T-_-S-H-A-L-L-O-W-_-W-O-O-D "
you would . very simply set up a TEXT PRESET in your hotbar, so with one click, your chracter speaks the words, "Arelith Forest Shallow Wood"

So the quick-escape would be 1) activate the lens to enable "listen" mode... 2) click your hotbar-preset of " s/ Arelith Forest" (or whatever the exact commanmd would be" which makes your character 'speak' whatever you've put after the "s/" ... 3) 'crush' the lense, sending you on your merry way.

The This is three clicks, instead of 1 pre-loaded click... and gives the RP benefit of you 'speaking' where you go, so your persuers can still RP chase you down (although, THEY will have to probably manually type in the destination, which gives you a chance to escape.. or drop a WARD TELEPORT on the ground (if you have the means) blocking them from following you.

-that was the concept, anyway. Was just an idea I had about page 2 of reading this thread that I thought I'd share.

Not saying it's perfect, but I hope that at least clears up your concern about that idea... that you could STILL escape quickly.

-I'm outta here again.

*activates his lens* . *speaks the words using his premade hotbar /s command* . *crushes the lense* . *disappears*
-Unit of beauty required to launch one ship = 1 milihelen

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Re: Lenses change

Post by flower » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:14 am

dominantdrowess wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:58 pm
I agree Flower, other people are giving multiple angles, and you're just spamming the same point over and over, that isn't how discussion works.
You mean repeating over and over that people use lenses to escape mysterious IC consequences (aka pvp)? But okay.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Drexyl N~drass » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:38 am

Please don't ruin lenses.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by MissEvelyn » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:46 am

I'm with the group against. Lenses are great means of transportation, and a really good way to escape PvP. Because yes, PvP should absolutely be escape-able. Conflict RP will happen at some point in a character's life, and that's fine. But not all of us are heavy on PvP and this change would punish us in that department.

Instead, why aren't we asking for the rule-breaking exploits to be fixed?


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Re: Lenses change

Post by Halibutthead » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:59 am

i think "pvp should be escapable" is a weak argument against changing lenses, tbh. as is this idea that you should be able to avoid anything happening to your character if you don't want it to. guys, if you don't want anyone to affect your character, write a book about them. this is supposed to be a multiplayer game. Gobbo Champion Inc speaks the truth of the matter, regardless of how you feel about a lense change

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Mr_Rieper » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:17 am

I get the feeling that this change to lenses isn't just because of a PvP-related exploit. This also seems like an attempt to curb fast-travel and the culture of "instant gratification" that comes with it.

Which I understand, and I'm sure many other people reading this thread do too, even deep down. Part of the "epic" feel of a server that has been around for over 15 years is how much its grown, changed, evolved and expanded. The lack of respect for physical distance and scale is a real thing.

However this doesn't invalidate the complaints. This doesn't even remotely address the exploit. This does make things more tedious for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't be opposed to it, if it were for the right reasons.

Special attention needs to be paid to the flow of characters into areas, and the scope of their interactions. If you make travelling more difficult, areas on the server will isolate themselves and not interact with other groups as often. If getting in or out of a particular place is too tedious without using the lens method -- it's guaranteed, people will not go there.

^^^ This is my response to the original idea.

I do like the idea of giving another, more cost effective method of traveling but how sure are we that this won't tip things in the wrong direction?
Sure, people can afford to give out the cash for portal lenses and not worry about using it for something rather small or trivial, but part of the lenses' charm is that it IS expensive. They are your lifeline for escaping a situation, whether it's because you need to log off or get away from RP you don't particularly enjoy. You don't want to use too many of them and not have enough for when it counts. That's what makes them a lifeline, and they are both valuable enough to buy/use and precious enough to spare their use on overly trivial things.

People might use them often but not too often. Giving an even cheaper method of doing it is going to trivialize teleportation magic further.

Whether that's a good thing or not, it's up to you.
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Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Lenses change

Post by TroubledWaters » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:47 am

MissEvelyn wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:46 am
Instead, why aren't we asking for the rule-breaking exploits to be fixed?
I did ask for a two to three round windup time on lenses to prevent insta-porting out, but some people really did not like this idea as they want to be able to avoid PvP instantly.

I'll reiterate that the current lens function reduces IC consequences for IC actions and harms the development of stories, as they are something that are regularly "gamed around". For example, you've gotta give enemies little notice when exactly you are going to start combat, as you don't want the lenses to start. This leads to less pre-PvP interaction and more salt once the conflict event is resolved.

Consider your favorite movies and how they would be changed if the main characters had access to Arelith-style portal lenses:

-Anakin escapes when Obi Wan has the high ground (he waits for the conversation to start and the combat music to stop before mashing his hotkey, F8 and 4 for Arcane Tower)

-Frodo and company escape the Nazgul in the forest by lensing out before combat starts

-The Warriors lens back to Coney Island

-Bill doesn't say anything to The Bride before shooting her in the face because combat has stopped and he needs to act before she lenses

This list could go on forever. Adding a windup time before lenses would promote interaction before PvP as both sides know the other one can't instantly escape in two clicks if combat isn't started. It would promote meaningful story interaction around conflict instead of the quick troll/kill/run dynamic which currently creates so many bad player experiences.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Disciprine Come From Within » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:29 am

I've read this thread page to page and have been biting my tongue on what I want to say for a little bit but I think despite how mean it's going to sound, it's something that needs to be said.

If you want the best RP experience here, you have to trust people. This thread, on both sides reeks of an internal lack of trust for fellow players along the way and in a rush to "win" or in a rush to get out of a bad situation, both sides are really saying they don't trust the other players. Those that want IC consequences to exist and don't want a "Get out of PvP free card" don't trust others not to use that option, so they want it taken away. Those that want the system left alone and are so adamant about it staying the way it is don't trust conflict RP to be engaging, fun, and enjoyable, especially from a losing side.

And that's probably why I lean towards the thought that changing the system to prevent getaways would cause more trouble than if it was left alone. People that lens away instantly don't want to deal with the person they are escaping. This could be because they don't trust the other player not to force them along with mechanics into an early visit to the death zone or because they see losing the PvP as something that doesn't engage the "story" of their character anywhere.

That being said, the amount of PvP I've gotten into in this year alone is few and far between. Maybe less than 10 incidents in almost an entire year across multiple characters. I don't think PvP is hard to avoid even without lenses. It just comes to character behavior. But, the amount of complaining I read just gets to me that you guys (in general) really don't trust enough to tell a creative story together sometimes. There can be good story in defeat. There can also be really bad story in defeat or victory. We're all here to play this game and tell a story together and make this really old game come alive. When it shines, it shines. But that involves trusting the other players around you. Stuff like this can breed more contempt and based on what I've read, there is too much of that already.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Zed » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 am

Why not just keep lenses exactly how they are but more expensive and rarer to get?


As somone who used lenses exactly as described numerous times in this thread for exactly the reasons laid out in this thread I would be fine with that.

With thw caveat that I think activating a lense should have a preset *[INSERT NAME takes out a lense and prepares it]*

Which would allow people to know that a lense is prepared.

As well, I frequently used lenses to get away because of how quickly people want to throw steel.

Infact one big piece of advice I always had for people who asked me how to handle PVP was "if they hostile you, the fight has already started" simply because there is a rash of people saying somthing that warrants a response. Then hostiling immediately. Then attacking when that person is typing out a response. Having a lense prepared is a staple of getting out of those BS maneuvers, the only effective change I could provide is that Abjuration wards should apply even if they are preped so that people can be effectively trapped even with a prepared lense.


As to the above suggestion. I think you could compromise that if you say nothing a lense will take you to your set redrawn point but if you say a destination then you head there.

But of course make the destination names short enough. Like "Guldorand" for skull crags south entrance. Or "traders route" for bendir dale (traders route) north

Stuff like that.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Atlantahammy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:39 am

Disciprine Come From Within wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:29 am
I've read this thread page to page and have been biting my tongue on what I want to say for a little bit but I think despite how mean it's going to sound, it's something that needs to be said.

If you want the best RP experience here, you have to trust people. This thread, on both sides reeks of an internal lack of trust for fellow players along the way and in a rush to "win" or in a rush to get out of a bad situation, both sides are really saying they don't trust the other players. Those that want IC consequences to exist and don't want a "Get out of PvP free card" don't trust others not to use that option, so they want it taken away. Those that want the system left alone and are so adamant about it staying the way it is don't trust conflict RP to be engaging, fun, and enjoyable, especially from a losing side.

And that's probably why I lean towards the thought that changing the system to prevent getaways would cause more trouble than if it was left alone. People that lens away instantly don't want to deal with the person they are escaping. This could be because they don't trust the other player not to force them along with mechanics into an early visit to the death zone or because they see losing the PvP as something that doesn't engage the "story" of their character anywhere.

That being said, the amount of PvP I've gotten into in this year alone is few and far between. Maybe less than 10 incidents in almost an entire year across multiple characters. I don't think PvP is hard to avoid even without lenses. It just comes to character behavior. But, the amount of complaining I read just gets to me that you guys (in general) really don't trust enough to tell a creative story together sometimes. There can be good story in defeat. There can also be really bad story in defeat or victory. We're all here to play this game and tell a story together and make this really old game come alive. When it shines, it shines. But that involves trusting the other players around you. Stuff like this can breed more contempt and based on what I've read, there is too much of that already.
I actually AGREE with this, despite being one the people on the "leave them alone fence." And will full up admit, I am one of those people... The other point is, it's exhausting for rescuers, and with it constantly happen I don't want to add onto that list.

I don't actually trust a lot of players with that kind of thing, because of bad experiences, and the constant feel of those wanting capture/torture roleplay are so gun-ho and eager about it, that it seems like some kinda weird creepy fetish, that they want me to play out for them, and when I sense that, I just nope the heck on out of there.

The few people I DO trust with it, I've actually roleplayed enough, and talked to in tells.
Zed wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 am
Infact one big piece of advice I always had for people who asked me how to handle PVP was "if they hostile you, the fight has already started" simply because there is a rash of people saying somthing that warrants a response. Then hostiling immediately. Then attacking when that person is typing out a response. Having a lense prepared is a staple of getting out of those BS maneuvers, the only effective change I could provide is that Abjuration wards should apply even if they are preped so that people can be effectively trapped even with a prepared lense.
This happens to me all the time, (being attacked while replying) I feel your pain dude.
Last edited by Atlantahammy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Zed » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:52 am

Atlantahammy wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:39 am
Zed wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 am
Infact one big piece of advice I always had for people who asked me how to handle PVP was "if they hostile you, the fight has already started" simply because there is a rash of people saying somthing that warrants a response. Then hostiling immediately. Then attacking when that person is typing out a response. Having a lense prepared is a staple of getting out of those BS maneuvers, the only effective change I could provide is that Abjuration wards should apply even if they are preped so that people can be effectively trapped even with a prepared lense.
This happens to me all the time, I feel your pain dude.
Regretably I have done this to you (through somone else)

Its a huge problem on the server, I feel like its could be helped but thats for another discussion


The trust thing is 100% right. But as long as its possible. Players will use it. Because they wanna feel like the "hero" who never loses. Its both conscious and unconcious to want to win all the time for people.

As bad as it sounds. The mechanics need to adjust for the thing.

Now do I think it should take 3 rounds to charge up a lense? Heck no! Lenses and almost any other text based item are canceled by combat. And most quick lense aways are handled within 15 ft of your opponent. Meaning they can get to you and give you a
Attack before that lense even works!

I think making lenses not prohibitively expensive, but more expensive, and make them rare, as in a crafted item not a bought item, would be better.

Dont get rid of them but make people think before preping one.


Also making it so that they are use it or lose it. Half the bad thing about preping lenses is that you dont lose a lense if you cancel the box. Meaning you can always have one preped. (I know ive done it and I'll admit that)

monkeywithstick
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Re: Lenses change

Post by monkeywithstick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 am

To be honest hostile is an ooc tool.
One of the reasons I hostile folks is if I expect a reasonable chance of escalation. This achieves a few things.
It gives them an ooc headsup.
It gives them opportunity attacks to interrupt spells, and means their spells and summons affect me normally.
It means if they flee, I am not dropping hold spells or otherwise on a neutral character (as kept happening when I waited for the escalation - which is technically not ok)

Too long a windup means a lot of uninterested people being forced into pvp.
With a known destination, we will end up with hunters carrying lenses to follow. At which point if I have a lower spec pc, or one of the transition crashes current EE build seems to have. There is a real possibility that I will load into the gang of people I just ran from and they've had two rounds to buff.

Lens provoking an attack of opportunity as per a potion might well work better? It might still be a bit too hard a counter though.
Characters: Izzy, short for Isabel. Shaena Ash.

Miskol
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Re: Lenses change

Post by Miskol » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:18 pm

I mean... for all those who haven't seen it, Irongron has already said something on this matter that I have to agree with:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21048

If a character is constantly lensing out of conflict for the sake of avoiding consequences to their actions, then it is on the player and up to the DM team to adjust RPR or take actions deemed appropriate. If one is willing to use enough UMD, they could just as easily escape a situation as with a lens. I feel like this is an issue to do with player attitudes, not with items.

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Re: Lenses change

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:00 am

TL;DR

I would ditch the lense from npc shops, and put the recall rod in its place.
(>^.^)>) * * * *<(^.^<) <-Magic missles and shield spell.

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