Slavery : Issues & Improvements.

[The Rambling Midget]

I will point out another issue: People also use the system to troll other players, I'd like to point out, by making them wast the 500,000 gold bribe, and then go back and get themselves collared again a day or hours later to mess with the person, and they can't really DO anything about it.

I think that problem could be solved pretty quickly if clamping cost the same as unclamping. You'd have to really want that slave.

[The GrumpyCat]

While most have pretty much said what I think already, including people just pointing at the clamper and not telling those captured anything about the system, pressuring them into it, etc, I will point out another issue: People also use the system to troll other players, by making them wast the 500,000 gold bribe, and then go back and get themselves collared again a day or hours later to mess with the person, and they can't really DO anything about it.

It seems like one of the major arguments that come out again and again and again against the slave system is:

"People are pressued into it, not given enough information ect."

This can be solved simply by making the dialogue options to take the Slave collar more detailed and full of warnings. Maybe with an express note that this is player choice, you shouldn't be coerced oocly about it, ect. It will bring a bit of ooc into the mix, but if we think it's a big issue, then it's an easy way of fixing it!

[The Rambling Midget]

This can be solved simply by making the dialogue options to take the Slave collar more detailed and full of warnings.

A very stern warning of potential consequences for those who might try to coerce players into agreeing would also help.

[Atlantahammy]

While most have pretty much said what I think already, including people just pointing at the clamper and not telling those captured anything about the system, pressuring them into it, etc, I will point out another issue: People also use the system to troll other players, by making them wast the 500,000 gold bribe, and then go back and get themselves collared again a day or hours later to mess with the person, and they can't really DO anything about it.

It seems like one of the major arguments that come out again and again and again against the slave system is:

"People are pressued into it, not given enough information ect."

This can be solved simply by making the dialogue options to take the Slave collar more detailed and full of warnings. Maybe with an express note that this is player choice, you shouldn't be coerced oocly about it, ect. It will bring a bit of ooc into the mix, but if we think it's a big issue, then it's an easy way of fixing it!

...Yeah Pretty much! That alone would be a VERY big step forward.

[Ecthelion]

I think . . . wait for it ~ .. is cool. (In game ofcourse)

I find it actually incredibly fun being a slave from character creation and I can attest that its not all that bad. Mind you that I started as a slave and I know my masters OOC and we all get along, but still theres alot of room for enjoyment with slavery.

I agree with alot of the points here.

Thing is when you see a new slave nearly every day it's either a pay off of 500k or the foig method, money or time for freedom.
After awhile this gets really tedious for the ones who help try to free slaves (Often a pressure of allignment to maintain) the burnout is real.
This becomes really sad for slave #32 when they're told "Sorry I can't help you, after freeing 31 other slaves I'm sick of doing this over and over"

My bottom line issue is:

Far too easy to get into.
Not explained well enough what to expect
Too hard to get out of to facilitate constantly.

Pretty much true. But as some people suggested, I don't think that the solution is to get rid of the slave collar completely. I have some suggestions instead.

• Make it more clear that slaves can own shops and quarters inside guildhouses.

• Make it so theres a method to pay for the freedom of a slave thats above ground, but more expensive! Its really important from a mechanical and an incentives point of view that the above ground method is considerably more expensive. This way people don't just run to the above ground version and use that one instead.

• Make it so the slave caller only works for the slave master. Its kind of silly that ANYONE can teleport a slave away from their own master.

• Have some sort of interactive quest above ground that can help someone become free that doesn't involve fighting. Perhaps give it a percentage chance that every step of the way it can trigger an NPC event (like a speedy being sent) that informs their master that something may be amiss. Make that trigger event more likely to happen the faster they do the quest. So its a 5% after say 3 days between each step, but like a 95% chance if its 10 minutes between each step.

• Make slave collars of varying degrees of difficulty to get off, with varying degrees of freedoms being stripped from the player. CHOICES

• Do stuff to the prisoner collar so its more useful as an alternative to enslaving people. Like making the collar make someone incapable of teleporting places, or unyoinkable.

I think most people here are aknowledging that slave RP can be real fun !
I very like the idea to make the quest triggering speedies to the masters with a chance percentage. Going with the suggestion that was made with the Harper-like-quest, it'd make a neat quest.
I don't really see the point in making a method to pay on surface, I don't think that would really be used. Though I don't mind it being implemented either ofc.
On the point of making multiple collars, I think two versions are enought, they just need to be reworked. People are already badly informed on it, if you implement five or six collars, it'll make things too confused I think.

Agreed on the rest of what you said.

I think so far we can all agree on two points :
- The bug turning prisonner collar into slave collar has to be removed.
- People should only be able to be summoned by their Masters.

[Nitro]

Another point. Right now slaves can go anywhere and do anything pretty much, because the slave caller can call them in at any time so they can't escape just by wandering. But it also makes it very easy to finish the escape questline as some of the quests for it are trivial in the surface or with friends helping to free you. Implementing a feature where the owner could toggle on/off if the slave is able to go to the surface and/or use speedy/goblin messengers would make it significantly harder for slaves to pursue freedom while also keeping it more in character, as it'd make more sense if they were actually stuck underground rather than immediately running to the nearest paladin for help.

[The GrumpyCat]

- People should only be able to be summoned by their Masters.

The argument against this is that, unless paired with other changes, it would make slaves less a 'underclass' and that they'd only ever really be answerable to their master. A couple of the comments I've seen (such as the one below, and also Durviyas) is that people don't always roleplay their slavery very well.

Right now if I play a slave that regularly spits on drow females, sneers at goblins, and is generally 'uppity' then I have to deal with the fact that any of these people can summon me to a certain place at will, and make my characters life very unpleasent.

If only my mistress/master can summon me, then *shrug* What'cha gonna do about it? Unless they're logged in/willling my character has about the same freedom/consquences as the average outcast. And if they go to the surface, they're essentially entirely free until their owner logs in and summons them.

Is this a good thing? Bad thing? Well that's kinda debatable I suppose. But it's worth pointing out anyway.

[Ecthelion]

- People should only be able to be summoned by their Masters.

The argument against this is that, unless paired with other changes, it would make slaves less a 'underclass' and that they'd only ever really be answerable to their master. A couple of the comments I've seen (such as the one below, and also Durviyas) is that people don't always roleplay their slavery very well.

Right now if I play a slave that regularly spits on drow females, sneers at goblins, and is generally 'uppity' then I have to deal with the fact that any of these people can summon me to a certain place at will, and make my characters life very unpleasent.

If only my mistress/master can summon me, then *shrug* What'cha gonna do about it? Unless they're logged in/willling my character has about the same freedom/consquences as the average outcast. And if they go to the surface, they're essentially entirely free until their owner logs in and summons them.

Is this a good thing? Bad thing? Well that's kinda debatable I suppose. But it's worth pointing out anyway.

Perhaps the Master could choose people who could ? Then it would have to be clearly stated that it is the Master responsability to warn the people to who he gives the right to summon a slave that they should check with the people before if it's okay. As for Slave not RPing their slavery well, I suppose that is to be sent to DMs ?

[Durvayas]

As someone who plays a character that owns slaves and as someone who HAS a character that is a slave and has gone through the slavery questline...


There should be some mechanic that allows the owner to decide who gets to call a slave via the slave callers. I've had my own slave called away before. I've BEEN the slave called away, WHILE I'm RPing with my owner. The slave caller is incredibly annoying, and needs restrictions placed on it, either by the owner, or the slave themselves, or both.

The clamper NEEDS an OOC warning to stop people being accidently clamped. People who trick people into a slave collar OOCly need to be punished harshly, but also, the dialogue needs to be entirely reworked. It is currently FAR too easy to accidently collar yourself as a slave instead of being a prisoner. At this point, just make the entire dialogue OOC or make the choices MUCH clearer.

Aside from that, the prisoner collar is fine as-is. It should, in my view, NOT grant any of the UD portals except the outpost, as it has been abused in the past by surface players to make pseudo-outcasts who come to Andunor, ride the grindtrain, and then slip their temporary collars. It was also being used to implant spies in the city for a while, until people just started executing people in prisoner collars as a matter of course.

The cost of 500k to buy freedom is high, but fair, and keeps it from being too trivial, though getting out of the collar is still really quite easy. You either ask a DM if you're REALLY not okay with things, or grind. Getting that kind of gold is effortless if you know the right people. When I played a slave, I had to turn find reasons to turn down not one, but two offers to buy the collar off outright, so clearly this is not as much of a hurdle as people make it out to be.

Some method to magically disable(-5 or 10AB) or harm one's own slave would be a good addition to the system. I've lost track of how many times I've bought a slave I didn't know OOCly and had to fight it (I fought Feng at least seven times), or seen other PCs killed by their own slaves. While rebellion has its place in the system and its RP, there is no real way to prevent it from the owner's side except to not gear your slave at all, or take away their gear in the first place, which cripples them and makes them less useful. Slaves are often more trouble than they are worth, so many are unwilling to bother with the RP on the buyer side of the system, just like many are unwilling to do slave RP on the slave side of it. A means to stack the deck on the side of the owner would be a good addition to the system, I think.

Sibiyad needs a caller, if not a clamper, and Sencliff could use its own quest too.
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Certain aspects of the slavery quest could use a change.

There is a specific item that needs to be purchased some.... 30 times for one of the tasks. Its the only alternative to the slavery quest part involving the cage fight, and the only option for anyone playing a mage. And this particular item only is sold once per reset, from a single NPC in Andunor. So when you have 3-8 slaves all doing the quest at once, this becomes a logistical bottleneck and nearly impossible to accomplish. At best, with no competition, it makes the quest take an RL month. At worst, it could take six RL months or longer.

As someone who played a slave, THAT was the least enjoyable part of the questline for me.

As well, the part of the quest where you 'find the hideout the proper way'. There is no clue as to what the proper way is. I had to be told OOCly, and when I went to complete it, it took me some 12 tries to get the script to fire off. 90% of people I've talked to who have done the quest had to be told OOCly how to do this. It needs to be made MUCH more clear, and the odds of the script firing need to be tuned to happen more than just by complete and total accident for the 1/10 people who get lucky.

And finally, scars needs to have some way of telling you what quests you've already done. If you've forgotten your progress, there is no way to recollect it, and no reminder of what has and hasn't been done. So if you go on haitus, and return to playing that character, you'd have to do the entire quest over again, and I'm talking ALL of the fetch quests... in order to know what you missed.

Aside from this, I do not think the quest needs any changes.


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Any suggestion that slaves not be able to use the UD portals should be dismissed out of hand.
It would make playing a slave so aggravating as to be not worth doing EVER. You'd be locked out of partying up with locals unless someone could -yoink you or unless you spent hundreds of thousands or millions of GP on lenses. Thats a lot of mindless grinding just to be able to play in Andunor.

Any suggestion to make clamping a slave cost as much as to free one(500k) would be a shadowban on the entire system, as it would never be worth clamping anyone, ever. Any suggestion of such should be dismissed out of hand. It already costs 30k to buy a lvl 30. While I wouldn't be opposed to doubling the price per level to transfer ownership(a lvl 5 costs 10k and a lvl 30 costs 60k), a cost to clamp would heavily discourage using the system at all, and lead to an increase in just killbashing rather than attempting this route of RP, period.

Any suggestion to delete the system should also likewise be dismissed out of hand.
The arguement that the system is unnescessary is a strawman arguement that can be applied, blanketedly, to many aspects of Arelith. The deity system, the settlement system, etc. The point of the slavery system is to automate slavery and standardize its implementation to a degree, and to keep cheesy people from abusing it (Like the prisoner collar has been abused in the past) due to how arduous it is to remove.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

I have found the slavery system to be all around frustrating. I would remove it outright, or at least add ways for deeply moral characters like Paladins to help free slaves. Maybe a system akin to the assassin system and settlement leaders. Kill the owner of a slave, and all slaves owned by them are freed. Something to that effect to allow paladins to actually liberate slaves without breaking vows.

Slavery in its current form is why I will not play a good aligned pc again. It gets beyond frustrating to deal with the third or fourth time around. Let alone 20+. Slavers can just respawn if they fail and are killed. By social pressure or expectations leads to far more lasting consequences to the victims if they are captured.

[Hellfire]

I have found the slavery system to be all around frustrating. I would remove it outright, or at least add ways for deeply moral characters like Paladins to help free slaves. Maybe a system akin to the assassin system and settlement leaders. Kill the owner of a slave, and all slaves owned by them are freed. Something to that effect to allow paladins to actually liberate slaves without breaking vows.

Slavery in its current form is why I will not play a good aligned pc again. It gets beyond frustrating to deal with the third or fourth time around. Let alone 20+. Slavers can just respawn if they fail and are killed. By social pressure or expectations leads to far more lasting consequences to the victims if they are captured.

While I can understand your frustration, the system is being enjoyed my many and tolerated by many more. Your suggestion to solving a particular alignment based example of freeing the slave ignores a point that has been brought up already. Sometimes even if the character wants to be free, the player is enjoying their time and RP. Implementing any system that allows outsiders to unilaterally free the slave or to put them in a position to be forced to accept their freedom should be harshly rejected.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

You don't need a collar for slave rp. A broken, coersed, or blackedmailed pc will remain a slave with or without collar. But if there is a mechanical aspect to it, there should be mechanical ways for one of the class most mandated to deal with it, to actually do so.

[flower]

i belive its possible to put permission from the slave player for the quest as i have written before, before item granted by the slave you could not initiate the freeing quest. It would be on responsibility of slave players why They cannot obtain the item neccesary to save themselves.

[Hellfire]

You don't need a collar for slave rp. A broken, coersed, or blackedmailed pc will remain a slave with or without collar. But if there is a mechanical aspect to it, there should be mechanical ways for one of the class most mandated to deal with it, to actually do so.

Giving paladins or any other group a way to force an end to slavery would be worse then the current system, and removing it would cause far more grief for those playing slaves then you think. That slave clamp line in their description is the ONLY thing that makes it possible to RP down below without being an open and known ally of someone in a strong position. RP only slaves would get to look forward to long cycles of explaining their presence and a massive increase in PVP if the mechanical component was removed.

And again, the only way into slavery is for the PLAYER of the slave character to select it from a dialog. You want to counter balance that by allowing someone else to unilaterally end that choice for them. We don't have that for the same reason that you don't get to decide if someone you kill in PVP is allowed to respawn or has to delete their character. Its not your place to be making those choices for other player even if it is something your character would be trying to do for their character.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

I want to make it possible for paladins to end slavery. But that does not mean unilaterally. It could be an opt in feature from the part of the slave, and if not done, the paladin would get a message like "The slave is too broken to be able to remove the collar with her masters death." Or something like that. I get where you are coming for 100% and dont think that players who want to roleplay out a story as a slave should have that taken from them. But adding a system that is not unilateral like I mention here, is not in anyway something that will destroy slave rp. Much like ooc concent is needed to enslave a pc, it should also be needed to free one.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Sometimes players don't mind being enslaved and be taken by some of the more influential dark factions that they only hear about in stories from other players, allowing the negative IC experience to effect their character development.

The master should always respect the slaves OOC wishes, if they want to be freed or don't enjoy the current RP it is the master's responsibility to put them into the right hands for team good to free. Slavers already have a pretty tough time considering it lists their name right on the collar so you know exactly who to hunt down and murder.

[Ecthelion]

I want to make it possible for paladins to end slavery. But that does not mean unilaterally. It could be an opt in feature from the part of the slave, and if not done, the paladin would get a message like "The slave is too broken to be able to remove the collar with her masters death." Or something like that. I get where you are coming for 100% and dont think that players who want to roleplay out a story as a slave should have that taken from them. But adding a system that is not unilateral like I mention here, is not in anyway something that will destroy slave rp. Much like ooc concent is needed to enslave a pc, it should also be needed to free one.

The idea of the quest brought up already is a better way to end the collar. Your method is way to easy and could potentially lead to bad PvP strikes from Pals. At least I feel it that way.
I'm playing a Pal and I want a way to free slaves, but not this one. Others ways have been brought up too.

[Durvayas]

I want to make it possible for paladins to end slavery. But that does not mean unilaterally. It could be an opt in feature from the part of the slave, and if not done, the paladin would get a message like Or something like that. I get where you are coming for 100% and dont think that players who want to roleplay out a story as a slave should have that taken from them. But adding a system that is not unilateral like I mention here, is not in anyway something that will destroy slave rp. Much like ooc concent is needed to enslave a pc, it should also be needed to free one.

So lets play devil's advocate. A player is happy with their slave RP. They want to escape 'eventually' but maybe not this second. So you, a paladin, run up to their owner, say your brief "I'm here to slay you to rescue so-and-so" (and we're not even going to get into the flawed logic that killing slaver A in the cordor swamps causes the collar that slave B in the andunor slums is wearing to just... break?) lines before PvP. Lets say you land one of those tasty smites. You get that message.

"The slave is too broken to be able to remove the collar with her masters death."

What is your plan then? Pack it up and stop trying to save the slave for the rest of its existance? We already have trouble with slaves being classified as evil because their players don't want to get their freedom bought for them on day 2 of wearing the collar.
"They don't want to be free, they must be ebil" is alreadya problem.

Your idea would codify that mentality... literally.

Not wanting to be rescued that second does not mean that slave does not want to be rescued. It means the player of that slave doesn't want slavery to be the easy revolving door that wealthy good PCs try to make it.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

If they are too broken to be freed as a slave, why would that mean an end to trying to free them? Its just then you would recognise ooc that they are not interested in slave rp ending just yet, so you respecct that, but IC you could still continue trying to inspire hope, depate, and in general rp with them.

I understand this is a touchy subject. And I feel that alot of people are reacting very emotionally to it, because of the important role it plays in their RP, or enjoyment of the server, and I am not looking to by my suggestions threaten that. What I am trying to do is offer ideas that ideally spark discussion, or other better ideas. I feel the current slavery system leaves alot to be desired, and should be discussed. And while there may be any number of flaws with my suggestion as it was written, I think the general concept behind it sound. That there should be a mechanical way for paladins to free slaves, if slavery is going to be a mechanical feature.

At the moment the only option that does not require compromising vows and risk having ones character deleted/deleved (depending on what level was taken on creation), is to set the underdark on fire, and kill enough people of note/connections down there that pressure, disruption of trade, etc. causes the slave to be freed.

I just want to say again at the end of this post that I fully, 100% agree that no slave should be able to be freed without the slaves ooc consent, just like they cant be enslaved without it. Adding new mechanics that enable other kinds of stories related to slavery does not mean disabling old ones. The slaves player would still remain 100% in control.

[Miskol]

A few comments and suggestions I would like to make:

I agree that prisoner clamps should be made the norm, and the higher class slave collars are something given out on DM discretion. Think of it like a player deciding to roll their character after a loss in battle versus a player asking for the mark of destiny to be applied to their character. The player can decide when they want the roleplay to end, and those who want to go all out can ask a DM for something hardcore. Players who wish to play characters with permanent limb losses already find ways to explain why all the clerics out there who cannot restore it for them. Players with prisoner collars can do the same on why their collars cannot be so easily broken by other players.

I would suggest making freeing slave characters via gold be incremented in the same manner it takes to buy one; as well, increase the amount of gold required to buy slaves. As of now, it takes 30,000 to purchase a level 30 slave, but 500,000 to free a slave of any level. Having a purchase cost of 10,000 * level of the character for both buying and freeing the slave could provide balance to both sides. Buying an epic level slave would no longer be a frivolous purchase, and freeing one would be less burdening.

I quite like the idea that slave owners be able to threaten their slaves with death, even if their slaves are mechanically stronger. However, I dislike the prospect that an owner can end their slave at the press of a button. I find it would lock out almost any chance rebellion or counter-play from the slave against the owner. I would propose a solution of having a kill button at the hands of the owner, but the killing process goes through an ever-increasing DC save vs death or rising damage over time against the slave - the effect will cease upon the death of the owner. This system would allow slaves time for counterplay if they wish, and give the owner an advantage over the slave without being too overbearing. It would also reflect on the power of a slave, a stronger slave SHOULD be harder to kill.

[Durvayas]

I would suggest making freeing slave characters via gold be incremented in the same manner it takes to buy one; as well, increase the amount of gold required to buy slaves. As of now, it takes 30,000 to purchase a level 30 slave, but 500,000 to free a slave of any level. Having a purchase cost of 10,000 * level of the character for both buying and freeing the slave could provide balance to both sides. Buying an epic level slave would no longer be a frivolous purchase, and freeing one would be less burdening.

You may as well come out and say you want the entire slavery system abolished.

You're proposing a 50000gp floor price for a lvl 5 slave. 300000 for a lvl 30. More often than not, slaves that aren't generated AS slaves will escape within a month or two of being clamped, if that. It could be a short as a week if they meet a wealthy goodie that wants to spring them.

Buying a slave is a risky investment, because it very often ends up being an ephemeral one. You're not taking into account this fact one iota.

You're also not taking into account that the reason that people with prisoner collars are killed VERY often is because they're effortless to get into, effortless to get out of, and surface PCs used to routinely come to andunor, put on a prisoner collar, and pretend to be slaves to spy. It became endemic enough that our PCs just started killing all of the ones that we didn't explicitely know had been captured.

If your suggestion was implemented, it would no longer be worth capturing people alive from a fiscal standpoint due to the cost of processing a capture, and it would no longer be worth taking a risk buying a slave that we don't explicitely know OOC.

It would also become impossible to tell which people are actually in the UD as slaves, who answers to who, and who needs to be killed immediately because they've been caught spying four times in the past.

[dominantdrowess]

This is being edited, and added to - please be patient.

I agree with Durvayas here on this one, the changes just proposed would destroy the slave system, not fix any of the issues addressed. Just because something is currently frustrating doesn't mean it cannot be fixed ... but to fix it requires people making suggestions to have the objective of it being a useful RP tool both from sides.

I don't think anyone here but Durvayas has spent time addressing the problems -the other- side has.

From the Underdark side, to be a useful RP tool:
1) The system has to accomplish an objective of tyranny. The system is about slavery. It needs to be useful for the Evil people to use. Basically appointing a character as another's principle antagonist and overlord, and the system needs to help facilitate this. Anything that lessons this, makes the system pointless. This is NOT the same as the 500,000 gold surcharge to get it off. This is about actual ability to influence a slave and impose upon them WHILE they're wearing the clamp.

2) I don't mind it costing money to put a clamp on someone, but it shouldn't be as expensive as the 500,000 gold charge to get it off (which I disagree should exist-- it's a band-aid at best for another problem I'll mention further down) though I think changing the name on a clamp does not need to be more expensive than it is. This is usually an agreed upon process between the owner and the slave, and impediments to this are, in my opinion, a bad idea. Surfacers are asking for it to cost more gold to clamp someone ... because they want to shadowban the system -- as they want it to be as bad in gold-cost for the Underdarkers as it is for them. I feel this can be fixed in another way.

3) It needs to not be possible to accidentally end up as a slave. The Beast gives serious OOC warnings, the Clamper needs to. This change needs to happen immediately, but I feel in general is NOT as much the fault of Underdarkers being OOCly malicious as much as it is them being held accountable OOCly for what happens in RP by the friends of people who engaged with the slave system. Players should not be held OOCly accountable for a poorly written dialogue and if the NPC is auto-clamping people, I imagine DMs will agree to fix this.

From the surface perspective:
This system has a few issues that make surfacers hate it that I'll outline as "OOC communication", "Lack of fun" and "Buyers Remorse".

1) OOC communication: ... people who take slave clamps often communicate with the person they allow to clamp them or enjoy the RP ... but they DO NOT communicate with the other players they're involved with IC as friends, family, allies, and so-on. This means that they themselves may have a good relationship with the character playing their Master ... but the people who are friends with that player often despise the master from an OOC perspective for entirely competitive reasons.

2) Lack of Fun: The system itself is not currently conducive to fun for surface players. It does not allow a villain to have much control over a character that is of epic level or well-connected, and? Even further, creates more vulnerabilities for the slave owner than the slave that they don't have without the system: The slave can (and will) spy for surface allies. The slave can (and will) change sides against the slave owner if the owner is confronted by surfacers. The slave can (and will) steal from the slave-owners home, or allow surfacers into the home if provided a key. The fact that the slave OWNER has literally ZERO recourse (in the moment of betrayal) for any of these actions outside of PvP violence makes the slave system ... a systemically weak, and an unfulfilling narrative experience. Even further than this ... the most common way of escaping the slave system is a faction pooling together 500,000 gold ... which basically equates a grinding tax that I feel needs to be eliminated entirely and replaced with the ability of the clamp-owner to release the slave willingly in the name of dynamic roleplay.

3) Buyers Remorse: When you have a systemic lack of fun from a transparently simplistic system that generally focuses on grinding to get rid of it.. an army of friends and family railing against the system in your IMs and continuously trying to get you to attack and betray the RP partner you've chosen (the slave owner), an inability to escape social stigma if you refuse to participate in the meta-gaming ... constant PvP assaulting your RP partner where you have to choose between participating in the narrative you've chosen or ignoring friends and family who very casually teleport into Andunor ... (I've delt with those numerous times, even when I wasn't the slave owner, surfacers magically come to -me- as if I have some power over it) ... I think it creates a very frustrating experience for the slave player. Even further than this ... the most common way of escaping the slave system once you encounter all this is a faction pooling together 500,000 gold ... which basically equates a grinding tax that I feel needs to be eliminated entirely and replaced with the ability of the clamp-owner to release the slave willingly in the name of dynamic roleplay.


The simplest solution to all of this ... is to remove the 500,000 gold requirement ... and make it so the slave owner is capable of releasing the slave themselves, which makes it so negotiating with the slave's owner actually has some kind of impact on the RP.

People are willing to die. But they aren't willing to lose 500,000 gold.

Most of the time, these ridiculous ransome prices exist just because the Underdark slave owner ... doesn't want to pay the 500,000 gold out of their own pocket because the slave got cold feet (because of their OOC friends whispering shame and anger in their ear) and is perfectly willing to let the player go when they feel OOCly pressured to get out of the slave RP... and I feel ignoring this is a crime against the slave owner, a crime against the slave player, and a crime against those who are so desperately trying to rescue them.

I've even tried going half way for them before and offering the low low price of 250,000 gold to free slaves to their ransomers before ... but people are absolutely intent on stuffing the full 500,000 gold down my throat like it's some kind of OOC grudge-match that they're willing to PvP you constantly to get you to swallow for them.

How meta-gamey do I have to be, to willingly swallow 250,000 gold in losses for a slave my character has full control of, with the resources of an entire city at her back? Taking the grind off the table, and making it about what happens in RP is better for everyone. If my character values a slave at one ingot of adamantine, I should be able to free them for that. If I value them at one gold coin on principle just to taunt a dwarf who hates me? I should be able to free them at that. Artificially inflating this hurts the surface players in ways that I feel are unfair to them as they don't have a parallel to the slave system.

This means... that if the slave's owner ends up disappearing, there ARE slaves that paladins, heroes, or even evil allies of the captured slave and the like can RESCUE as well, by taking possession of and immediately freeing said slave.

Picture being a paladin, and being able to say the words:
"I free you from slavery." And being the sole person responsible for it. That, to me, is story-worthy.

[Petrifictus]

Reason why slavery system has a bad reputation is because some have used it in the past to grief people and thus giving strong negative experiences.

As villain who likes to do business with slavery, my tips are to make agreements with your slave/slaver about what RP you're fine with and where the limits are put. Slave RP always has two and thus its your responsibility to make sure both get most positive fun experiences out of it.

Always ask if they're fine with becoming slave, tell what the collar brings if they dont know and stay in touch with them. I ask my slaves to tell me OOC if they're not having fun anymore and wants to get free, so we can work out something that works IC without breaking it.

[Miskol]

I would suggest making freeing slave characters via gold be incremented in the same manner it takes to buy one; as well, increase the amount of gold required to buy slaves. As of now, it takes 30,000 to purchase a level 30 slave, but 500,000 to free a slave of any level. Having a purchase cost of 10,000 * level of the character for both buying and freeing the slave could provide balance to both sides. Buying an epic level slave would no longer be a frivolous purchase, and freeing one would be less burdening.

You may as well come out and say you want the entire slavery system abolished.

You're proposing a 50000gp floor price for a lvl 5 slave. 300000 for a lvl 30. More often than not, slaves that aren't generated AS slaves will escape within a month or two of being clamped, if that. It could be a short as a week if they meet a wealthy goodie that wants to spring them.

Buying a slave is a risky investment, because it very often ends up being an ephemeral one. You're not taking into account this fact one iota.

You're also not taking into account that the reason that people with prisoner collars are killed VERY often is because they're effortless to get into, effortless to get out of, and surface PCs used to routinely come to andunor, put on a prisoner collar, and pretend to be slaves to spy. It became endemic enough that our PCs just started killing all of the ones that we didn't explicitely know had been captured.

If your suggestion was implemented, it would no longer be worth capturing people alive from a fiscal standpoint due to the cost of processing a capture, and it would no longer be worth taking a risk buying a slave that we don't explicitely know OOC.

It would also become impossible to tell which people are actually in the UD as slaves, who answers to who, and who needs to be killed immediately because they've been caught spying four times in the past.

I want the current slave system to be abolished or overhauled. As do many others replying to this topic.

As pointed out many times before, gold isn't worth what it used to be. 50,000 is rather easy to get, and even easier to regain seeing as many slaves have skills that can be taken advantage of. 300,000 for a level 30 character? Many characters have 300,000 by low epics. The actual numbers can be adjusted however the team sees fit, but the point is the current price of 1,000 * level for a slave is effectively a pittance.

I'm sorry to say the slave collar can be taken off just as easily as the prisoner one. The objectives of the FOIG method can be completed with help in under an hour if you really wanted to. As I pointed out earlier in my previous post, I believe the prisoner collar should be taken more seriously and not put on and taken off in a careless manner.

From a fiscal standpoint, if you're a slaver you can always charge a premium over the base charge from the auction house to gain gold. Let's not pretend players sell shops and quarters at their mechanically imposed price, slavers can do the same.

[Yma23]

How about this as a suggestion.

Remove slave collar as an immedate option from slave clamper, but keep the prisoner collar (hold on, read onwards, you'll see where I'm going with this)

The Prisoner collar works as is, but also prevents the person wearing it from being -yoinked. (MAYBE if we're being REALLY harsh also make it so that the wearer cannot use any portals, including portal lenses. MAYBE. But i am unsure this is neccesary)

The Prisoner collar can be removed at any time by the wearer.

After a set amount of time (No less than 1 rl day, no more than 1 rl Week... I'd go about 3 rl days personally) the prisoner can talk to the clamper again. The clamper at this point offers the slave collar.

Before taking the collar, the clamper gives a brief ooc explenation of the consequences and rules. (e.g. that it is semi perminent, that slaves cannot take homes, that the player must never feel under any ooc obligation to take the collar.)

If the player clicks 'yes' then they are given the slave coller, and the system continues more or less as is.


This 'wait time' means that:
a) there's time for prisoners to be rescued.
b) There's time for prisoners to work out, even if just oocly, if they want to roll with the slave collar or not
c) Also gives time for the captors to see if the rp of the prisoner is what /they/ want as well.
d) Just basicaly makes it much harder to oocly 'force' someone into slavery. Even aside from the ooc messages, to 'force' someone to be a slave, you'd have to keep them locked up somewhere, without lenses, without -yoinking, for a leanghty amount of time. Whilst this is possible, I would hope it would be signficantly difficult and also more black-and-white reportable to DMs.

I do think that the system might need some other tweaks as well (e.g. more slave housing, heck with a system that's more easy to 'opt out of' before it begins, maybe even some more consequences ect) but I think the above might be a nice middle ground.