Slavery : Issues & Improvements.

[flower]

My characters never had more than 250k in gold at any time.

And I am certain many other people have I same, so saying half of million in coins is trivial is ridiculous.

[Ecthelion]

Little Weasel Update:

As of next reset:
- Various bug fixes across the board (thanks to all contributors, as they have spent an insane amount of time laboring over bugs over the last weeks!)
- Updated the conversation for the 3 Slave Clampers in the module to make the difference between collars clearer.
- Note: There is still a bug with the clampers swapping Prison Collars to Slave Collars upon repeated conversation with them. It's still on the "to find and fix list". IF that happens to you, contact a DM, who will swap them back for you.
- And as always, if you find any troubles, please let me (or the bug forum) know, and we'll look at it.

So we're makin' progress!

That's at least the obvious things done ! Thanks for the quote, and thanks to the DMs/Devs !

[Tarkus the dog]

my only issue with slavery is that saslae hasn't captured my character yet

[dominantdrowess]

my only issue with slavery is that saslae hasn't captured my character yet

This is everyone’s problem with the slavery system.

*cracks the whip*

Only so much Sassy to go around.

[dominantdrowess]

On a side note:
This reads like a disclaimer at a BDSM club. >D

[DM Avalon Soul]

It might but, given how much the Slavery collar can take control over a person's RP , it was felt a thorough disclaimer was nescessary.

[Durvayas]

It might but, given how much the Slavery collar can take control over a person's RP , it was felt a thorough disclaimer was nescessary.

Its just missing the recent ruling that slaves can own shops, but otherwise, its MUCH better than it was before.

[Aodh Lazuli]

A question for everyone here...

Do we need a mechanical system for slavery roleplay?

Slavery is intended to be a voluntary choice for the player. Why, in that case, do we need a means of enforcing their choice? Why must someone be locked into their choices with the mechanical element?

What actual purpose does the collar offer?

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

I have often wondered the same thing to myself. If nothing else I imagine it makes the experience more extreme and real to rp, but I feel strongly, and this is despite disliking the system, that there is little to be gained by taking the system away from players that feel it adds something important to their characters rp.

Especially with nothing preventing players who dislike the mechanical aspect of the slavery collar from either using the prisoner collar, or rping a slave with no mechanical features in play at all.

[Durvayas]

A question for everyone here...

Do we need a mechanical system for slavery roleplay?

Slavery is intended to be a voluntary choice for the player. Why, in that case, do we need a means of enforcing their choice? Why must someone be locked into their choices with the mechanical element?

What actual purpose does the collar offer?

Yes.

And the reasons why are quite simple.

• Surface PCs can't use the Andunor portals(because cheesy surface PCs abused the hell out of this when Andunor first rolled out). The collar lets them do so so that they can more easily roleplay with their UD owners without burning hundreds of thousands of gold on lenses (in the case of a slave in the UD. There are no restrictions in sibiyad and sencliff)
• Slave collars identify who owns whom(which fosters roleplay).
• Slave collars can be called by the caller(which helps with the logistics of logging on, but your slave is a half hour away by foot, how to fix that? Yoink them to you. Also, slave runs to the surface? I don't think so. Pull a scorpion "Get over here!")
• Slave collars prevent new slaves from being killed as likely spies. (Didn't used to be a problem with slave RP back in the day, but with how cosmopolitan Andunor's population is, this is a necessary feature now. New surface race PCs that aren't wearing a collar are viewed with suspicion and a degree of hostility, and rightly so.)
• Slave collars on newly genned PCs greatly help facilitate getting them involved in local goings on as they get dragged around as a communal pack mule until they get an owner, helping them meet people and get exp.

So in short... portal logistics, fostering roleplay, preventing cheese from ruining a good thing.

Especially with nothing preventing players who dislike the mechanical aspect of the slavery collar from either using the prisoner collar, or rping a slave with no mechanical features in play at all.

I think you'll find that prisoners are often killed as probable spies based on well established precedent, and the latter are simply killed outright. If they aren't wearing a mechanical collar at all and they can't use the portals and don't speak the language? They're a surfacer, and thus a potential target, either for mugging, murder, interrogation, or ransom. Their collar will be considered a fake because of WYSIWYG, like a broken disguise. Andunor does not tolerate unregistered slaves. We've had FAR too many spies try that song and dance.

[flower]

It is not that many years ago when lack of language (celestial, infernal, abbysal) could not be used to discover a heretic.

Now we have shifted to the state where someone unable to speak in UN is getting killed.

[Emotionaloverload]

A question for everyone here...

Do we need a mechanical system for slavery roleplay?

Slavery is intended to be a voluntary choice for the player. Why, in that case, do we need a means of enforcing their choice? Why must someone be locked into their choices with the mechanical element?

What actual purpose does the collar offer?

I have played a slave back in the day (when there weren't any collars) and one with a collar and I can tell you it helps rp immensely. On the first one, there was constantly an OoC and IC conflict with other players and characters over the validity of the claim of slavery since the character could be sent to complete tasks alone. With a collar, the rp is never in question. This is not a minor point.

To me, its mechanical benefits are standard or plain in comparison to providing validity and stake to a character. The collar has also allowed slavery rp to be an option where as without the collar, almost no one chose this path because it would be so hotly contended with other characters and~ players.

-S

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

If the mindset in the UD really is that those exercising agency, and chosing to wear a prisoners collar, instead of a slaves collar, is to murder them, then that seems like as good a reason to fundamentall revamp the slavery system.

"Sure we take consent seriously, and sure you take agency, but if you dont pick the option where you surrender yours, we will murder your character to the point of slave rp, without a slave collar becomes unplayable. But really, we totally take consent seriously."

If this happened to me, after I went along with capture rp, but did not want to do lonterm slavery, and instead took a prisoners collar, and I was killed as a result, I would absolutely report it to dms for violating the be nice rule, as well as applying soft pressure towards making players accept a slaves collar. Because thats what it is, "take the slaves collar if you want to do captive rp in the underdark or get merked again, and again."

I would very much like to hear the dm position on this, because it does not matter whatever warnings or empowering messages you add ig, if what Durvayas says is common is the way of things. Especially now that its been posted on the forums and a prospective captive might read it, and be pressured as a result of it, wanting rp as a captive, but not wanting to be pvped all the time.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Factions should have a right for a base. As surely as goblins should die in Cordor surfacers should have a hard time in Andunor. Only difference it is harder to sniff out a surfacer human in Andunor, compared to a goblin in Cordor.

[Durvayas]

It is not that many years ago when lack of language (celestial, infernal, abbysal) could not be used to discover a heretic.

Now we have shifted to the state where someone unable to speak in UN is getting killed.

Intentionally using class-granted languages as a means to discover someone's alignment is a world of difference from "This guy doesn't understand a word of the local language that literally everyone is speaking, he must not be from here."

If an american spy went to eastern russia and didn't speak a word of russian, it would be immediately apparent to everyone that he doesn't belong. The same is true on arelith.

A sufficiently high lore character that doesn't speak undercommon but understands it would be able to bluff their way through day to day life if they're creative. They could pretend to be mute, or just be one of those annoying set-in-their-ways outcast PCs that refuse to speak undercommon. Understanding undercommon is 100% necessary to blend in in Andunor, however; Speaking it is less critical.

If the mindset in the UD really is that those exercising agency, and chosing to wear a prisoners collar, instead of a slaves collar, is to murder them, then that seems like as good a reason to fundamentall revamp the slavery system.

"Sure we take consent seriously, and sure you take agency, but if you dont pick the option where you surrender yours, we will murder your character to the point of slave rp, without a slave collar becomes unplayable. But really, we totally take consent seriously."

If this happened to me, after I went along with capture rp, but did not want to do lonterm slavery, and instead took a prisoners collar, and I was killed as a result, I would absolutely report it to dms for violating the be nice rule, as well as applying soft pressure towards making players accept a slaves collar. Because thats what it is, "take the slaves collar if you want to do captive rp in the underdark or get merked again, and again."

I would very much like to hear the dm position on this, because it does not matter whatever warnings or empowering messages you add ig, if what Durvayas says is common is the way of things. Especially now that its been posted on the forums and a prospective captive might read it, and be pressured as a result of it, wanting rp as a captive, but not wanting to be pvped all the time.

Its clear you haven't read the whole thread. I've stated, repeatedly, that prisoners that are NOT known to have been taken in specific circumstances, are thought to be spies and killed.

If player X's PC is taken in a raid, and that raid is decently well known about by the citizens of Andunor, they can get away with wearing a prisoner collar. They'll probably still get harrassed and possibly killed by people who aren't well informed about who recently was captured, but thats the risk they decided to take in not wearing a slave collar. They'll have to rely on people who are informed of the circumstances of their capture to vouch for them. Don't want your PC to die? Get a document signed by the PC that captured yours that you can show to verify your PC's identity as a slave; It'll greatly improve your survivability.

Its really not that hard to NOT get killed for wearing a prisoner collar if you're smart about it. All people want is proof your PC is who they claim to be.

Rando Y who just appears one day with a prisoner collar? Yea, precedent shows that the vast majority of the time, that guy is a spy, and he will more likely than not get killed for what is probably a transparent attempt at blending in as a slave. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Edit: If you happen to get slave ID papers from a character that runs afoul of politics and/or is declared an enemy of the state, those papers won't be worth the parchment they're written on. Papers won't save you all of the time. Sometimes circumstance conspires against you.

[flower]

The Undercommon is tied to the outcast as much as class language, there is no difference between it and you should not pick whatever just suits you in the moment.

[Durvayas]

The Undercommon is tied to the outcast as much as class language, there is no difference between it and you should not pick whatever just suits you in the moment.

If humans suddenly had an 'elf friend' path that let them be citizens of Myon and the mythal stopped working, we wouldn't hear a peep out of you about elves using elvish to weed out foreigners.

Undercommon is tied to Andunor as a settlement like how elvish is to Myon or dwarvish to Brog.

The fact is, that everyone that belongs in Andunor either knows undercommon or is wearing a collar. Unlike all of the surface settlements, where the lingua franca is common, Andunor's is undercommon, and if you don't understand it, you aren't from there and recieve the suspicion you are due as a foreigner. End of story. There is no magic gate to pass through, there is no scroll to read, or religious rite you're being forced to perform. When in rome, you do as the romans do, or the romans will know you aren't one of them.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Speaking Undercommon isn't even that big of a gate considering half the players on the server speak it.

[DM Sollers]

Durvayas, cut it out.

Topic's done.