PG-13 Rule

[Rooshi49]

Do we really need it? And why?

[The Rambling Midget]

Yes. Because young people play here, and this is place is meant to be welcoming to everyone. Sinfar is there for all of your other "needs". It's not going to change.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

The degeneracy is overflowing even with the PG-13 rule. Nobody wants to open Pandora’s box by removing it.

[Rooshi49]

Yes. Because young people play here, and this is place is meant to be welcoming to everyone. Sinfar is there for all of your other "needs".

Classic first post insult. I love it. Directly insinuating my only reason to post something like this is because I want to sexy elven fun times on arelith.

All shenanigans aside, I would like for this to actually be a discussion, not a mud flinging festival.

[Queen Titania]

Neverwinter Nights is rated T, so it's really a request to keep content to match the game's rating.

Higher rating is an audience shift and an adjustment of tone. There's no reason to alter what is successful.

[The Rambling Midget]

What is it that you want to see added to the server environment that doesn't fit into your opinion of what qualifies as PG-13?

Specific examples would help.

[Miskol]

I've played with people on Arelith who are 12 years old, so yes, it's definitely needed.

[Hazard]

The degeneracy is overflowing even with the PG-13 rule. Nobody wants to open Pandora’s box by removing it.

Open. The. Box.

[Rooshi49]

What is it that you want to see added to the server environment that doesn't fit into your opinion of what qualifies as PG-13?

Specific examples would help.

Gladly, but I'm currently on my phone so I'm trying to keep short responses. Also TRM, nothing against you, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, just how you worded your first response came off as a personal attack.

Anyways, let's get down and dirty with specifics. So assuming that the pg-13 rule is there in the spirit of making arelith match the rating of nwn, I just want to discuss how the pg-13 can be updated to fit certain kinds of RP on Arelith.

Examples: Gnolls and ogres eating people. I've heard before that it's against the pg-13 rule.

Mutilation, swearing, torture rp. All of these things are nebulously fit into being okay sometimes when left in "good taste".

[The Rambling Midget]

Mutilation, swearing, torture rp. All of these things are nebulously fit into being okay sometimes when left in "good taste".

It's a question of how those things are integrated into your RP, rather than the issues themselves. There really isn't very much that's not allowed here, and the US PG-13 rating is pretty darn loose. Sex, rape, mutilation, gratuitous torture, cannibalism, and a handful of other extremes are things that you simply will never be permitted to actively RP here. You can still add them to your character's story by implication, if you can do it tastefully, but this is not a place where one player gets to drag another player through a potentially psychologically traumatizing experience, for their own enjoyment.

That's why I brought up Sinfar. They have much looser rules, and that's fine, as long as what goes on over there is between consenting adults. This is not an adult server. We have a lot of kids here. Long time Arelithians have brought their own children to this server. The PG-13 rule is in place to keep this a safe OOC place for players of most ages, even if it's not safe IC.

[Rooshi49]

So your saying that a drow torturing people into submission or a gnoll eating a corpse are all against the pg-13 rule?

Then why have them as races?

Also gratuitous, and "in good taste" are all far too nebulous.

[Queen Titania]

What is it that you want to see added to the server environment that doesn't fit into your opinion of what qualifies as PG-13?

Specific examples would help.

Gladly, but I'm currently on my phone so I'm trying to keep short responses. Also TRM, nothing against you, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, just how you worded your first response came off as a personal attack.

Anyways, let's get down and dirty with specifics. So assuming that the pg-13 rule is there in the spirit of making arelith match the rating of nwn, I just want to discuss how the pg-13 can be updated to fit certain kinds of RP on Arelith.

Examples: Gnolls and ogres eating people. I've heard before that it's against the pg-13 rule.

Mutilation, swearing, torture rp. All of these things are nebulously fit into being okay sometimes when left in "good taste".

You can RP eating a body. Keep it tasteful. Don't get graphic with your descriptions. Like *chewing an arm* is not bad. Getting down and dirty on how they are doing it, no. Not necessary either. You only need to do enough to give the detail this person or creature eats other persons.

You can swear, but again, keep it tasteful. Avoid the more jarring ones, and I'd recommend to keep to the ones that are used in the campaign and setting.

You can torture, but /again/, tastefulness. Maybe you slam a dagger in a leg to get someone to talk, or have your mage cast a fire spell on them. Keep your emoting light. You only need to get across what is happening, not /how/ it is happening.

You can mutilate to an extent, bodies are desecrated/beheaded, after all. Same as above though.

In all of he above cases, the PG-13 label means don't get graphic. Think of your PG-13 films, a 13 year old next to you, whatever is necessary to keep you in line. And if you think it crosses it, don't do it.

Think not what is comfortable for you, but a general audience.

So your saying that a drow torturing people into submission or a gnoll eating a corpse are all against the pg-13 rule?

Then why have them as races?

Also gratuitous, and "in good taste" are all far too nebulous.

There's far, far more to these races than those details. While in the above I said such are okay if done tastefully (Very light in description, marking the intent but minimizing the detail), they are completely unnecessary in getting across the depiction of a drow or gnoll in any way.

[Revelations]

I honestly never understood how graphic <anything> is supposed to create a more compelling story.

I’ll even go as far and assume that most stories we enjoy are rather innocent all around. Look at LOTR, Hobbit, Star Wars, HP, they’re all super clean and still some of the best and most popular fantasy franchises.

It’s nice to get away from sex and gore for some time.

And tbh I even find certain shades of slave RP questionable already. Personally I find the idea of people enjoying the idea of describing how they maim and dismember someone really disturbing. Not so much the maiming and dismembering itself, but rather that someone actually goes yeah, wow, that’s the stuff.

Ew.

[The Rambling Midget]

Also gratuitous, and "in good taste" are all far too nebulous.

So err on the side of caution. If you can't find the line between tasteful and gratuitous torture, either keep it to a minimum or don't do it at all.

You will never see a list of which specific torture methods are considered acceptable and which are not. That allows players to dance around the line and rules lawyer.

[Queen Titania]

I honestly never understood how graphic <anything> is supposed to create a more compelling story.

I’ll even go as far and assume that most stories we enjoy are rather innocent all around. Look at LOTR, Hobbit, Star Wars, HP, they’re all super clean and still some of the best and most popular fantasy franchises.

It’s nice to get away from sex and gore for some time.

And tbh I even find certain shades of slave RP questionable already. Personally I find the idea of people enjoying the idea of describing how they maim and dismember someone really disturbing. Not so much the maiming and dismembering itself, but rather that someone actually goes yeah, wow, that’s the stuff.

Ew.

HP is definitely not super clean, I will dispute that one from your list! (But it is a fine example of effective PG/PG-13 language/violence/torture/slavery depiction).

[Lunargent]

I started playing on Arelith when I was 14, and my now-husband was even younger than me, so yeah. I would say that it is needed. Not to mention there are people around who are just squeamish and do not want to be subjected to graphic violence. Arelith is in a good place with this imo, a sort of happy medium between gratuitous HBO/Showtime ultraviolence and PG 13/T-rated appropriate things. It's not just about matching the rating of NWN, but making sure everyone is comfortable and having fun.

OOC consent is probably the biggest factor between being 'okay' and 'not okay'. It never hurts to ask OOCly what the character you're going to be doing potentially non-PG13 roleplay with is okay with. If they're not okay with doing stuff, you're going to get reported. But they might be okay with varying levels of detail or a fade-to-black in which the two of you agree on what happened without any elaboration. But to be safe: make things quick and vague. Saying "The gnoll spends a time tearing flesh from the bone of his victim, leaving no limb spared" is a lot better than going into gratuitous detail about which parts it eats and how.

I think having some respect and recognizing that there is another person on the receiving end is a great place to start when you're trying to figure out what is 'okay'. And, really, try to be creative about it. I've seen people do great capture/"torture" roleplay without drawing even a single drop of blood. We live in a world of magic, think outside the box.

[Rooshi49]

What is it that you want to see added to the server environment that doesn't fit into your opinion of what qualifies as PG-13?

Specific examples would help.

Gladly, but I'm currently on my phone so I'm trying to keep short responses. Also TRM, nothing against you, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, just how you worded your first response came off as a personal attack.

Anyways, let's get down and dirty with specifics. So assuming that the pg-13 rule is there in the spirit of making arelith match the rating of nwn, I just want to discuss how the pg-13 can be updated to fit certain kinds of RP on Arelith.

Examples: Gnolls and ogres eating people. I've heard before that it's against the pg-13 rule.

Mutilation, swearing, torture rp. All of these things are nebulously fit into being okay sometimes when left in "good taste".

You can RP eating a body. Keep it tasteful. Don't get graphic with your descriptions. Like *chewing an arm* is not bad. Getting down and dirty on how they are doing it, no. Not necessary either. You only need to do enough to give the detail this person or creature eats other persons.

You can swear, but again, keep it tasteful. Avoid the more jarring ones, and I'd recommend to keep to the ones that are used in the campaign and setting.

You can torture, but /again/, tastefulness. Maybe you slam a dagger in a leg to get someone to talk, or have your mage cast a fire spell on them. Keep your emoting light. You only need to get across what is happening, not /how/ it is happening.

You can mutilate to an extent, bodies are desecrated/beheaded, after all. Same as above though.

In all of he above cases, the PG-13 label means don't get graphic. Think of your PG-13 films, a 13 year old next to you, whatever is necessary to keep you in line. And if you think it crosses it, don't do it.

Think not what is comfortable for you, but a general audience.

So your saying that a drow torturing people into submission or a gnoll eating a corpse are all against the pg-13 rule?

Then why have them as races?

Also gratuitous, and "in good taste" are all far too nebulous.

There's far, far more to these races than those details. While in the above I said such are okay if done tastefully (Very light in description, marking the intent but minimizing the detail), they are completely unnecessary in getting across the depiction of a drow or gnoll in any way.

Can those specifics be made official somewhere on the forums?

[msterswrdsmn]

To be honest, after a certain point, you're not really doing things so much for "good storytelling" , and instead are doing them for "shock value" reasons. The pg-13 rule i've found usually is a pretty good guideline as to where to figure out where the line between good writing and "just for reactions" writing is.

If I can't figure out a good way to do it without actively trying to horrify everyone around me (in a cheap, low-hanging fruits sort of way), I probably need a better idea.

[Nitro]

They're not made official so people can't try to skirt them while hiding behind the "But I'm following the rules" card. Everything on Arelith is judged on a case by case basis. So if you think your concept of creature X doing horrible thing Y might maybe skirt too close to the PG13 rule, shoot the DM's a PM, I'm certain they'll be glad to fill you in for that specific case.

[flower]

You can imply now that the dead body will be eaten. Why would you need to describe it? How many people would find it comfortable being the victim what is getting eaten alive? You wouldn't get consent for this kind of play unless in rare cases anyway.

[Cerk Evermoore]

I think the PG 13 rule keeps the server wholesome and honest.

[The GrumpyCat]

They're not made official so people can't try to skirt them while hiding behind the "But I'm following the rules" card. Everything on Arelith is judged on a case by case basis. So if you think your concept of creature X doing horrible thing Y might maybe skirt too close to the PG13 rule, shoot the DM's a PM, I'm certain they'll be glad to fill you in for that specific case.

This. Basically.

There are younger players on this server, so we try to keep things relitivly clean.

The PG13 rating is notoriously fluffy, and often when you think about it deals still with some dark stuff, just not generally not in a graphic way.

I’ll even go as far and assume that most stories we enjoy are rather innocent all around. Look at LOTR, Hobbit, Star Wars, HP, they’re all super clean and still some of the best and most popular fantasy franchises.

*Frodo is captured, stripped naked and whipped at one point by Orcs
*The use of the ring can be seen as a highly addictive drug.
*Ogres do indeed try to eat all the Dwarves in the Hobit
*Princess Leia is tortured by her own father
*Princes Leia is made into an implied sex slave by Jabba the Hutt (or at least forced to wear a skimpy outfit)
*Luke is mutilated by Darth Vader
*The Droids visit various scenes where other droids are ripped appart
*People are thrown into the belly of a giant worm that kills them over years as it slowly digests them
*Anakin in the prequels has most of his limbs chopped off by Obi Wan
*Various cases of mass Genocide.
*Ja Ja Binks.
*Obi Wan stops someone selling 'Death Sticks' (A drug?)
* Harry Potter: Don't get me Started.

And these are themes that just come to mind off the top of my head.

For myself at least, (and I cannot speak entirely for all the DM team) I try to play a fairly light hand when it comes to the PG13 rule. Whilst there are minors, I also recognise that the vast majority of players are over 15, and I don't want to be stepping all over your stories, plots, and fun you're having. Keep it as clean and reasonable as possible, use your common sense, listen to DMs when we say you're 'going too far.' And stay out of the more egregious Ratings issues (Lots of uses of the F word, Cybering, psudo-cybering ect) and the chances are you'll probably be OK.

But if you want to campeign for a change to the current standard of ratings roleplay, I guarantee that you will likely regret it, because we're far more likely to tighten up rules than the loosen them.

[Ebonstar]

There are ways to do mutilation and torture that very well plays within the pg13 limits, as said above.

it is more innuendo than actual word for word emoting.

When i played drow there were many times to torture captives or criminals

injecting acid into a burrhole in the brain, let your imagination do the work

heated wires wrapped tightly around limbs to burn the skin

you get the picture without going into greater details. But a major thing was consent between those involved, and having played with those players long enough to know how far it could go before calling uncle.

my current toon shrinks heads and carries them after creating wards with runic sigils upon the finished head. if anyone asks, yes i got the recipe for doing such from an old novel based on the old borneo tribes, so i have decriptions to back up the rp if needed.

most just go eww when they see the collection of heads and it is just color for a moment and rp carries on

but its never too graphic

[Rockstar1984]

Well considering that there is a goddess commonly known as "the Bitch Queen", and there is also a brothel on Rayne's Landing the PG13 rule lets one get away with enough.

[Vrass]

On the server i came from most people when it was decided they were going to do torture rp would work everything out prior to it taking place. They would ask if the other player was willing and if the answer was yes they would ask what forms of torture were ok and how far the victim was willing to go in terms of intensity and graphicness. If the victim preferred not to undergo torture rp it would be done via a quick fade to black moment instead and that would be it. The victims preferences were always the top priority. I would think that would be the best system to use.