Resource Settlement Menu/Dialoge

[monkeywithstick]

The difference between "I didn't understand the menu and accidentally listed resource y as buying for more than we sell it" and "I stole the entire treasury" are impossible to discern IC. I'd feel pretty bad dropping consequences for grand larceny and treason, trashing someone's IC rep and to an extent the fun/viability of their character over what could easily be a mistake interacting with the warehouse menu.

Likewise, if all the settlements sell everything at 999% markup to avoid someone dumping cash to resource gain that is also a bit obfuscated. When I started out as trade minister I actually lowered a few of the sale prices on the stockpiles that looked abundant to see if we could raise some extra coin. That was by the sounds a rookie mistake, as it just gave access to other resources that were potentially mathematically cheaper than trashing our lowest stockpile. If it is so ubiquitous to set at 999% sell rate, it does beg the question why even let it be changed in the menu?

I understand the desire to get firmly back on topic however. And I agree the menu could be improved.
The one that always catches me out is the option to update all prices in the expanded warehouse is in a confusing place.I set to use all rates rather than just base rates on the one menu and that affects all the prices on one item, then there is an option that is something like "set all" which sets all the items. I keep updating literally everything to buy or sell at X gold/unit instead of only the one type of stock. This then necessitates I then spend an extra half hour in the warehouse menu (unless I don't notice it which sort of links in to the above issues). Make that particular derpbait go away and I'll be super happy.

I do also think it's odd that you can set buy prices higher than sell prices, this serves no purpose bar as a mistake to illustrate that our NPC ministers are thick as bricks, or as a vehicle for nearly evidenceless grand larceny.

[Royal Blood]

If a person, simply dumps hundreds of thousands of Units of resources into a trash bin. I get the feeling that the DM's would jump all over them and call it greifing because of the lack of interactive RP and it becoming reactionary. Find the missing resources, form a task force, infiltrate or bribe citizens and then get the resources back.

Who the DMs punish and to what degree is not information that is available to the public, however, so we can't temper our feedback on the system with that in mind. The repeated insistence that the resources end up donated to another settlement, however, is largely not backed up by fact - there are several of us who make a circuit of every settlement recording resource stockpiles at least every few months IG because of these sorts of things happening, and it's almost never the case that they end up deposited elsewhere.

Please don't mistake my repeated complaints about the faults of this system on not wanting to put in the effort IC to discover who's at fault; the effort has been put in, that's why I complain about it so much. There's very little recourse to be had beyond repeatedly body'ing someone after they donate your resources to a trash barrel, which is never a healthy option for the server.

If the DMs are policing this behind the screen, then I say, kudos. Good on them, and thank you. But that's just a stopgap, a band aid on a system that has been largely outpaced and made unfunctional by years of change and monetary hording.

I can agree with that.

[Sintarius]

As someone did mention, some of this in the discussion is for another topic. I will try set this up in sections:
Warehouse:
I have handled some of the dialogue of Bendirs dale Warehouse prices, and to be honest, YES it is a pain to setup, i actually made an spreadsheet on the side, to list all the prices, and what the prices would "become" after Tax + 20%, when making the pricing.
The factor of Citizenship, Tradepartners, race, class. All of those are too complicated, if you ask me, the new system made to the "Bank Storage / Water system" are a much much better system, this should be used in the Warehouse system aswell.

Some RP Points of this
You can individually change prices, depending on if you are a citizen or not, trading partner or not, this i put in quite the effort to maintain and change pricing. When Cordorian Officials, accused Bendirs Officials for, taking Cordors stone. See this is where things get interesting.. Economical Warfare.. its something that is happening in RL too, and its ALWAYS before a straight out direct confrontation. This is something i believe IS contributed what i call Political RP. and that is actually awesome. I as Tabby the Trade Alderkin, raised ALL Stone prices (Warehouse, NOT stockpile) to triple the cost, still selling, but to a high price, to everyone..
Its a system that is great and should be kept, but the UI / Dialogue should be better.
When in settlement, i expect those handling it, have the intellect to do so, it is not for everyone to be "Alderkin" / "trade official" and what the other titles is called.

Stockpile
Now the stockpile system, that is where i think it should be handled differently. When citizens are putting in Granite and Marble, to increase the Stockpile on the stones, it only increases the value, if the Granites are at 100 in size, OR unless the settlement has Negated sale of Granite, then the stones goes directly to the stocks. Now.. that UI / Dialogue system is.. strange to say at best. I would think that a Official of Settlement should be able to buy from "trade partners" directly through the NPC, now there are several ways this can be done, actually.. Setup the NPC to Enable Sell OR/AND Buy, let say Stone. then the Selling of Stone will be eligible, when its SALE ON, and if the settlement do NOT want to sell stone, then SALE OFF.. then no one can buy the STOCKS, it Do seem strange that anyone can buy stocks, when this is to be plain simple, a system that should be Settlement to settlement ONLY, system. So..
ANother suggestion is, that it is ONLY a settlement leader with the power from the Mayor that can BUY from settlements that they are TRADE PARTNERS with, this would also limit the Exploit..

But i MUST SAY... there should be room for the Economical Warfare RP, and if the settement system is.. closed entirely down.. thats.. just sad, all the efforts made to build this amazing settlement system up, would be a waste..
Economical warfare, i played a little with when Alderkin / Mayor.. neclecting Bendir trading with Cordor, BECAUSE of RP reasons..
A settlement WILL make enemies, and there should be other means to do warfare than just, Directly attack a settlement in the middle of a meeting... Economical.. should be a thing.. it gives Political RP some spice!!!

[Royal Blood]

The difference between "I didn't understand the menu and accidentally listed resource y as buying for more than we sell it" and "I stole the entire treasury" are impossible to discern IC. I'd feel pretty bad dropping consequences for grand larceny and treason, trashing someone's IC rep and to an extent the fun/viability of their character over what could easily be a mistake interacting with the warehouse menu.

Likewise, if all the settlements sell everything at 999% markup to avoid someone dumping cash to resource gain that is also a bit obfuscated. When I started out as trade minister I actually lowered a few of the sale prices on the stockpiles that looked abundant to see if we could raise some extra coin. That was by the sounds a rookie mistake, as it just gave access to other resources that were potentially mathematically cheaper than trashing our lowest stockpile. If it is so ubiquitous to set at 999% sell rate, it does beg the question why even let it be changed in the menu?

I understand the desire to get firmly back on topic however. And I agree the menu could be improved.
The one that always catches me out is the option to update all prices in the expanded warehouse is in a confusing place.I set to use all rates rather than just base rates on the one menu and that affects all the prices on one item, then there is an option that is something like "set all" which sets all the items. I keep updating literally everything to buy or sell at X gold/unit instead of only the one type of stock. This then necessitates I then spend an extra half hour in the warehouse menu (unless I don't notice it which sort of links in to the above issues). Make that particular derpbait go away and I'll be super happy.

I do also think it's odd that you can set buy prices higher than sell prices, this serves no purpose bar as a mistake to illustrate that our NPC ministers are thick as bricks, or as a vehicle for nearly evidenceless grand larceny.

the 999% refers to resource bundles, like 1 unit of resources = 1 gp I think. For example, when we sold a settlement a bunch of resources the value per resource bundle was 9gp because of the 999% Sell rate.

I guess that is because 1 gold = 1 resource unit like if granite is 20 gp, then 1 piece of granite is 20 resources.

Alternatively though, because the cap on selling the settlements s 9gp max, you can buy out the -entire- warehourse with a few millions gold. The cap to 999% does not prevent fraudlent buying, it only discourages it or forces investment.

Now... I think that doesn't totally ruin a settlement, because if you go bankrupt on a resource it pulls your tax and treasury gold, so if someoen just bought millions of gold worth of resources you can bite the bullet on the year resources are due and not have an issue. I think it's only if your -treasury- hits 0 that you go into election cycle.


Anyways like I've repeated, before I make like more... Accurate grievances with the system I really need to go through it all and gather my thoughts nad make sure I am not missing anything. I like the idea of economic warfare, I really do. What I don't like is some guy wandering over and tanking a settlements resources without any rp.

Like we're an RP server. What in an RP context makes any sense that the trade Czar would sell all the cities s tock piles to some random guy with a bag of coin. And if the Trade Czars are daft enough to do that, I would rather kill them for treason >:(

[Sintarius]

Anyways like I've repeated, before I make like more... Accurate grievances with the system I really need to go through it all and gather my thoughts nad make sure I am not missing anything. I like the idea of economic warfare, I really do. What I don't like is some guy wandering over and tanking a settlements resources without any rp.

Like we're an RP server. What in an RP context makes any sense that the trade Czar would sell all the cities s tock piles to some random guy with a bag of coin. And if the Trade Czars are daft enough to do that, I would rather kill them for treason >:(

Why i would suggest that it is something that is handled "within" the settlement, a power to be given to an individual WITHIN the settlement officials to be able to ENABLE what a settlement would sell, and WHAT the settlement buys from OTHER settlements..(trade partners ONLY) and that is it.. no one else can do it.. it would make the 999% go down, as it could be in the hands of people that ACTUALLY want to RP Economical Political RP... Then this guy, would have to engage in political RP to actually "TANK" the settlement resources..

I can only endorse this as a good RP, those that do not fully understand the system, how it works, should learn such before, making suggestion of a total removal of it first..
DO NOT SIMPLIFY IT, i can play 1000 others games, if i want to play something that is easy... to be honest i want more complicated options. What is a Level 30 supposed to do next? You cant grind XP, there is RP left.. and Political RP, that is where things gets interested.. and not just "directly brutal encounters, because i made the best build, yo all, im winning" RP

[sad_zav]

people can say this is a good rp but i think the receiving end has made it obvious, both this time and during previous incidents, that it's not fun

[Royal Blood]

I would argue that the complexity in the system comes from the engagement of other players. The actual understanding of the system shouldn't be so complex. Or that you need to check your trade czars because one day something might be added and it resets all the prices and someone comes along and wrecks the economy for fun. The fact that these loop holes exist reveals to me a significant flaw. I would wager that the damage done by the system being trolled far out weighs the 'fun' it brings when being used correctly.

Maybe though, it's not my cup of tea? But I feel like given the vital roll it plays in settlements, that having to set up any sort of spread sheet or otherwise is way too much.

Some off the top of my head ideas to make the system more interesting would be

1: simplify the diloag and numbers to simple, easily defined and easily identified numbers that clearly communicate what a settlement -needs-.

2: Create physical trade caravans that leave from the cities on command to commit to the actual action trading of resources that need to be defended by players or can be robbed by bandits or opposition. Like Cordor needs 40k units of cloth, Myon is like we can do that, so a caravan sets out with 40k units of cloth and returns with the gold value.

3: Create ways for the siphoning of resources through RP.

Sticking iwth the Trade Caravan idea, say like, you can set up caravan travel times. So like 10 caravans leave every year, and you setup 10 times that they leave where you can presumably be around to escourt them or they can sneak through. Caravan's come with NPC guards etc, that aren't complete push overs, and they walk to X settlement. If the Caravan oxen die then the settlement loses 5k of each resource with the possability to lose that x10 if they lose every caravan.

[Sintarius]

people can say this is a good rp but i think the receiving end has made it obvious, both this time and during previous incidents, that it's not fun

Im just gonna Quote myself...

Why i would suggest that it is something that is handled "within" the settlement, a power to be given to an individual WITHIN the settlement officials to be able to ENABLE what a settlement would sell, and WHAT the settlement buys from OTHER settlements..(trade partners ONLY) and that is it.. no one else can do it.. it would make the 999% go down, as it could be in the hands of people that ACTUALLY want to RP Economical Political RP... Then this guy, would have to engage in political RP to actually "TANK" the settlement resources..

[monkeywithstick]

the 999% refers to resource bundles, like 1 unit of resources = 1 gp I think. For example, when we sold a settlement a bunch of resources the value per resource bundle was 9gp because of the 999% Sell rate.

I guess that is because 1 gold = 1 resource unit like if granite is 20 gp, then 1 piece of granite is 20 resources.

Alternatively though, because the cap on selling the settlements s 9gp max, you can buy out the -entire- warehourse with a few millions gold. The cap to 999% does not prevent fraudlent buying, it only discourages it or forces investment.

That is correct

Now... I think that doesn't totally ruin a settlement, because if you go bankrupt on a resource it pulls your tax and treasury gold, so if someoen just bought millions of gold worth of resources you can bite the bullet on the year resources are due and not have an issue. I think it's only if your -treasury- hits 0 that you go into election cycle.

Also correct, I have heard (though cannot confirm) it may wipe the exile board for settlements that are not Cordor. Additionally, it will prevent you purchasing the water upgrades, warehouse opening etc. which is a little frustrating, especially if people have worked their backsides off bringing in resources for that purpose.

[Sintarius]

Some off the top of my head ideas to make the system more interesting would be

1: simplify the diloag and numbers to simple, easily defined and easily identified numbers that clearly communicate what a settlement -needs-.

I agree with you there, 120% the system as it is now is insanely crazy.

2: Create physical trade caravans that leave from the cities on command to commit to the actual action trading of resources that need to be defended by players or can be robbed by bandits or opposition. Like Cordor needs 40k units of cloth, Myon is like we can do that, so a caravan sets out with 40k units of cloth and returns with the gold value.

I REALLY love that idea... it could be awesome to see an actually Trade Caravan travel from one settlement to another!!!

3: Create ways for the siphoning of resources through RP.

Sticking iwth the Trade Caravan idea, say like, you can set up caravan travel times. So like 10 caravans leave every year, and you setup 10 times that they leave where you can presumably be around to escourt them or they can sneak through. Caravan's come with NPC guards etc, that aren't complete push overs, and they walk to X settlement. If the Caravan oxen die then the settlement loses 5k of each resource with the possability to lose that x10 if they lose every caravan.

Not a bad idea.. Some sort of Corruption to a settlement could be nice aswell, the higher the corruption the bigger the yearly loss would be... maybe paying a Yearly upkeep for the NPC guards, would make the corruption less? making siphoning, less effective?
Hell.. there could be alot of system to be implemented to make it all RP worth while..

Some more thoughts in this would be nice!!!

[Durvayas]

1: simplify the diloag and numbers to simple, easily defined and easily identified numbers that clearly communicate what a settlement -needs-.

2: Create physical trade caravans that leave from the cities on command to commit to the actual action trading of resources that need to be defended by players or can be robbed by bandits or opposition. Like Cordor needs 40k units of cloth, Myon is like we can do that, so a caravan sets out with 40k units of cloth and returns with the gold value.

3: Create ways for the siphoning of resources through RP.

Sticking iwth the Trade Caravan idea, say like, you can set up caravan travel times. So like 10 caravans leave every year, and you setup 10 times that they leave where you can presumably be around to escourt them or they can sneak through. Caravan's come with NPC guards etc, that aren't complete push overs, and they walk to X settlement. If the Caravan oxen die then the settlement loses 5k of each resource with the possability to lose that x10 if they lose every caravan.

While this is an entertaining idea, I don't see any reason anyone would use such a vulnerable system when they can easily just take the resources there personally like they do now.

As someone who plays in the UD, where the only settlement the devil's table can actually trade with is the sharps, I can't help but notice that this idea won't affect the UD whatsoever aside from giving us some caravans to raid, which, I'm always up for...

Not exactly fair perhaps to force such a vulnerability on the surface settlements, but I wouldn't say no to ripe new targets.

[Royal Blood]

Maybe an option could be developed to the UD. I don't exactly see PCs carrying resources as viable. Like where are you putting 40k units of stone? of this system was implemented I would just remove the ability to haul thme otherwise

And as far as raids go, atleast this would give UDers a reason to raid instead.of running around hasted looking for some poor guy alone on the roads.