Resource Settlement Menu/Dialoge

[Hazard]

Doesn't give nearly enough information. Basically none. It's a nightmare to try and figure out what is going on!

Is there any guide or how-to for this? Can it be made ... better?

[Rooshi49]

As with most dialogue systems in this game, it would be nice if one day they could be replaced with UIs. Alas. . .

Dreams. Thats all we have.

[WinkinBlinkin]

My only advice would be to set it up with two people on voice chat. Have one with access and one without, so that you can check that all is correct from a regular user basis. Otherwise it is incredibly easy to set up balance draining loops.

I would never normally advocate voice chat and ooc, but in this case, I think its invaluable.

[Royal Blood]

This system is a disaster.

The information is vague without players who were able to PM specific details I don't know if I would have figured it out, I spent 2 hrs today going through these massive dialog menus trying to get a grip on sale prices and what and how resources are applied as units

Findingout it's based off of the unit value in the description of an item is like duhhh idk why I hadn't thought of that, but it still leaves the system seeming over complicated

I do not think the system promotes RP it's vague and complicated. To give you another example Myon owns castle Gloom. There are 3 levels of support low, medium and high. NO WHERE that I have seen IG or on the wiki does it say WHAT that means.

There is also NO way to see -What- resources you're spending. Like could th trade czar just say "next year we'll need x amount of resources" Right now I have a spitball idea what resources are needed but not a definite.

I think I can go through and add up exiles, which is easy, but then there is Wells, and storage space amongst other things consuming resources you can find some references for this in the wiki, but the numbers go out the window after like 70 citizens? It just says the rate increases but not by how much.

Also, the fact that like in Cordor and Myon the trade czars and their settlement managers are numerous transitions apart is kinda annoying because you cannot see your treasury or other resource expenditures without running across the city

To be honest, most the settlement management dialog is vague, some of it doesn't even work, and it's difficult to understand how the systems work.

I think this system should be cut down to be way simpler. Or, have th NPC explain better how the system works.

The fact portions of the system are broken is also annoying. I think these systems are in dire need of a revamp and simplicity. If a Dev is keen to too take this up I would be up for giving specific details and examples of aspects that are broken or could potentially be made a lot easier.

Each settlement should have a government building that has a barracks, meeting room(s) and all the government functions located in the same area for the sake of simplicity. Again super happy to help design these or share specific thoughts!

[WanderingPoet]

I've used this in the past, it helps understand the expanded warehouse: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9071

What bugs me about the warehouse is how often it randomly resets itself. I've had to update Myon's 3 times (and haven't gotten around time time 4 yet) in the last 6 months and then the entire thing is reset without anyone touching it.

I do wish it was clearer one how many units of resources a specific item is - getting receipts for 400 units of stone vs 8 marble makes it hard to tally up what someone gave in for contest purposes. A lot more information could be presented as well; being able to see the prices from the standpoint of any race/class would be nice.

[Morderon]

I've used this in the past, it helps understand the expanded warehouse: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9071

What bugs me about the warehouse is how often it randomly resets itself. I've had to update Myon's 3 times (and haven't gotten around time time 4 yet) in the last 6 months and then the entire thing is reset without anyone touching it.

Bug report forum when it happens? And include what you mean by reset (ie is it the configuration of a specific item, every item, or do configurations remain but the service just needs to be re-enabled?)

A lot more information could be presented as well; being able to see the prices from the standpoint of any race/class would be nice.

That page already exists, you can reach it via going through either the of the expanded warehouse's purchase or sell menus and navigating to the individual items page. As well the item selection page also lists all the different types of prices.

The Display Prices option off the main branch of the conversation is meant for non-settlement people who are only interested in their own prices.

The information is vague without players who were able to PM specific details I don't know if I would have figured it out, I spent 2 hrs today going through these massive dialog menus trying to get a grip on sale prices and what and how resources are applied as units

Findingout it's based off of the unit value in the description of an item is like duhhh idk why I hadn't thought of that, but it still leaves the system seeming over complicated

It sounds like you tried to take on to much of the system at once.

The trade czar manages two different systems: The stockpiles (which fuels other services/exiles) and the Expanded Warehouse, which is basically a settlement dialog based shop.

The stockpiles is always enabled and concerns itself with units, and all items are treated the same based on their unit value.

Expanded Warehouse doesn't concern itself with units, and keeps tracks of items individually. While it shares some items with the stockpiles not every item it can contain is a stockpile item, and that's where the similarity with the stockpile system ends. The expanded warehouse has to be enabled first and then configured before use, unconfigured items will bypass it and go straight to the stockpiles, if applicable.

There's the link above provided by WanderingPoet as well as a Q&A forum if you need help configuring it. Though as a quick tip: For non-racial settlements (anything that doesn't have a race specified) I would just start with setting Base prices. For settlements that only want to cater to specific races, start with the Race base options, and for settlement who want to cater to both those specified in the racial options and those not, start with Adjust all.

There is also NO way to see -What- resources you're spending. Like could th trade czar just say "next year we'll need x amount of resources" Right now I have a spitball idea what resources are needed but not a definite.

There is, when you sign up for a service that settlement manager, or trade czar, tells you how much that service would be if the year were to end right then. The exception being the castle upkeep which I'd have to add. Exiles you'll have to math yourself.

I think I can go through and add up exiles, which is easy, but then there is Wells, and storage space amongst other things consuming resources you can find some references for this in the wiki, but the numbers go out the window after like 70 citizens? It just says the rate increases but not by how much.

I've added the formula to the wiki, but to keep it simple here it increases linearly. For example a settlement with 140 citizens will be paying double the price, a settlement with 105 citizens will be in the middle of 140 citizens and 70 citizens.

You can have these questions answered on the Q&A forum.

To be honest, most the settlement management dialog is vague, some of it doesn't even work, and it's difficult to understand how the systems work.

Bug report forum and Q&A forum.

The fact portions of the system are broken is also annoying. I think these systems are in dire need of a revamp and simplicity. If a Dev is keen to too take this up I would be up for giving specific details and examples of aspects that are broken or could potentially be made a lot easier.

Q&A forms, bug report forums, suggestion box forums.

Doesn't give nearly enough information. Basically none. It's a nightmare to try and figure out what is going on!

Is there any guide or how-to for this? Can it be made ... better?

I'm going to assume you mean the expanded warehouse, as the stockpile system is pretty simple, though i guess the item documentation hadn't been copied from the old forum, but there's someone looking into that.

Can you tell me what's missing from it? What more does a shop need then provided all the selling prices/buying prices/units in stock?

Taxes are currently missing, but the prices listed within the selling menus are accurate to what the settlement makes off the sale.

[Red Ropes]

I would highly suggest the following to make the resource / expanded warehouse system user friendly:

1) Make it completely impossible to set your prices to where you buy/sell or sell/buy more than the other and other illogical conclusions that a player would do. It does not make sense that your settlement NPC would let you do that as it would impoverish your settlement and allow for people to just steal money. Intended or not, it's a very cheap and disruptive way to do things. It is also something that can be done completely on accident.

2) Make it so every purchase is documented on a list players can look at, with names, so that when purchases are done there is something beyond receipts that settlement leaders can use to find out who, when using this system, has drained 8 million gold from their settlement and also keep an eye on who is contributing or draining specific resources.

3) Make these transactions and amounts of gold limitable and that only certain amounts of gold per year IG can be put out into the populace. There is currently no way for a settlement to use the warehouse or resource system in a way that isn't directly connected to the city treasury and thus limited to what can only be described as no-life griefing.

[McDuck]

If you take time to read trough all what the npc gives its quite simple. I am just going to make a comment on this. Those who wher willing to share how it worked are not so willing anny more cause the political game that is played currently is messy, cordor is a good example of that. Sinds i see comments here that that system basicly sucks, is not true. Let me give ann rp perspective on this. If a setlement has no resources, how can they keep the walls repaired, ther houses warm, food needed for citizens and so fort? The exiles cost resources cause the npc guards have to kick you out all the time, wich cost a lot each year. City storages. To keep it maintained you need an x amount of resources so security mesures can be taken by the city and can suply the needs for it to keep it open and maintained. And about setlement leaders seeing it being drained or who buy’s it. Meh, to much ooc in that.

[Nitro]

And about setlement leaders seeing it being drained or who buy’s it. Meh, to much ooc in that.

Yes, because it makes sense that a single character who has grinded up to 4mil gold can singlehandedly destroy any settlements economy without them being able to do anything about it, because they literally can't tell the NPC's not to sell the entire stock.

[McDuck]

Well to be honest. You must be realy nuts to do so. That at first, second, people are to lazy to go out and gather the resources. They only ones that have been wher eighter the setlement leaders them self or a fieuw indeviduals. And if they want to blow ther 4 million on it. Let them? Gives the city gold to buy resources else wher? Though its funny that you think grinding 4 million is easy. Been around on the server for almoost 13 years, and this has bearly happend before. That some one was so creative to do so. And others went all ooh and aah, and boo. I think the person deserves a kudos for being crazy inough to do so and it treuly from my personal point of vieuw, i would not have wasted such amounts of gold

[McDuck]

Oh one other thing i forget to mention buying to zero was a bug. And should/is fixed now.

[Hazard]

[Royal Blood]

The system does suck when it doesn't clearly give you information. I'd rather throw the trade Czar over the side of Myon then deal with the resource system. It could use a revamp, but i'll post specific details on that later I think. You shouldn't have to use OOC tools to understand how to not lose your settlement.


I think it does high light an imbalance between how people RP and players who are able to consolidate their time solo running dungeons. It maybe suggests settlement players should do more dungeoning and incorporate that into their rp so they're not held hostage by single players who can run dungeons by themselves and stock pile gold.

I don't know, that's a separate conversation. The main thing right now is that the resource system by merit of the information it gives out is not productive and annoying. Until it can be more clearly and easily understood its mostly a complicated hinderance

[Red Ropes]

The system does suck when it doesn't clearly give you information. I'd rather throw the trade Czar over the side of Myon then deal with the resource system. It could use a revamp, but i'll post specific details on that later I think. You shouldn't have to use OOC tools to understand how to not lose your settlement.


I think it does high light an imbalance between how people RP and players who are able to consolidate their time solo running dungeons. It maybe suggests settlement players should do more dungeoning and incorporate that into their rp so they're not held hostage by single players who can run dungeons by themselves and stock pile gold.

I don't know, that's a separate conversation. The main thing right now is that the resource system by merit of the information it gives out is not productive and annoying. Until it can be more clearly and easily understood its mostly a complicated hinderance

I triple endorse this statement.

[sad_zav]

[Hazard]

The system does suck when it doesn't clearly give you information. I'd rather throw the trade Czar over the side of Myon then deal with the resource system. It could use a revamp, but i'll post specific details on that later I think. You shouldn't have to use OOC tools to understand how to not lose your settlement.


I think it does high light an imbalance between how people RP and players who are able to consolidate their time solo running dungeons. It maybe suggests settlement players should do more dungeoning and incorporate that into their rp so they're not held hostage by single players who can run dungeons by themselves and stock pile gold.

I don't know, that's a separate conversation. The main thing right now is that the resource system by merit of the information it gives out is not productive and annoying. Until it can be more clearly and easily understood its mostly a complicated hinderance

I triple endorse this statement.

Quadruple endorse.

[Memelord]

Well to be honest. You must be realy nuts to do so. That at first, second, people are to lazy to go out and gather the resources. They only ones that have been wher eighter the setlement leaders them self or a fieuw indeviduals. And if they want to blow ther 4 million on it. Let them? Gives the city gold to buy resources else wher? Though its funny that you think grinding 4 million is easy. Been around on the server for almoost 13 years, and this has bearly happend before. That some one was so creative to do so. And others went all ooh and aah, and boo. I think the person deserves a kudos for being crazy inough to do so and it treuly from my personal point of vieuw, i would not have wasted such amounts of gold

It has happened three times in the last year alone, and has happened at least four times in the last five or six years, by my count.

The system is BAD, because it is UNINTERACTIVE. Unless someone either deliberately outs themselves or is very stupid in the way they go about doing this, there is literally no way to tell who has done it - and either way, there is no way to stop them from doing so. Any system that allows you to deliberately (pardon my French) Snuggle a Bugbear over another group of 40-60 players (which the smallest settlements are numbered at, in terms of citizens) without requiring you to interact with them at all - is a terrible system that is antithetical to the idea of spinning a collaborative narrative.

[TimeAdept]

It would be nice if you could set thresholds beneath which resources couldn't be bought, but throwing the whole thing in the trash feels like tossing the baby out with the bathwater. If someone wants to hand a settlement millions of gold to buy out all the stone down to an arbitrary threshold, the settlement now has millions of gold with which is rectify that issue if need be.

Considering the only penalty for being out of a resource is an effective 1% tax hike per RL month there's an issue, it's not like this is a major problem. No one gets unexiled, no one loses settlement power. All that happens is a bit of tax money goes to the ether. But the person doing it just handed you millions of gold to take all your (whatever) in the first place. Announce a contest to gather that resource and use half the money as a prize. Or speak to another settlement about the issue.

[Memelord]

Gold is absurdly easy to gather. Cloth and stone, less so. But as you've said, the system is largely inconsequential and serves really only as a way to give the middle finger to another group of players - or to provide something for people to complain about come election season.

My issues with it are primarily that the system fails to generate any meaningful or genuinely impactful RP while simultaneously providing people with a completely uninteractive way to flip you the bird. As it stands, if the player "shafting" you desires to put even the most modest modicum of effort into doing so, they can do so without you having any possible way of knowing it was them. Any RP generated by this then becomes REACTIVE not INTERACTIVE.

[McDuck]

let me put it this way. Exiling people all the way won’t piss people of? Aspecialy when the reasons are meh or people are to powerhunry and don’t want to lose controle cause they screwed up. You complain about some thing that has been around for years and worked fine. Get your hans dirty maybe then? If you think it is so easy. I already said its a waste of gold. But its so funny how hard stuck you lot are on it wil it is reletive easy to get it all back withou even spending a dime! And resources that have been taken are donated to other setlments That people are to lazy to check up wher it went and just trow assumptions all the way point fingers wile facts can not be proven. That other setlments hold the said resources, Maybe RP to get it back? That said. I already gave to manny hints and sugestions. I withdraw my self from this post now.

[monkeywithstick]

As you already said, it is a lot of coin for resources. No one doing this is expecting a valid cash return.
There is however no real trail.
And where the resources end up, to be frank is every bit as decisive evidence-wise as all the assumptions and finger pointing. If I have already "wasted" 4 million gold doing this, I lose very little by donating those resources to a passing trashcan.
And if that is the game I am playing, then the return I am expecting is political which for me at least would necessitate donating said resources to a scapegoat settlement, probably also with no witnesses.

It remains reactive not interactive. It does not on its own merit make for good game. It is (as with many other things in settlement leadership) nuisance RP with no reasonable counter designed to wear down the player until they retire their character from politics out of boredom/frustration.
That people may choose to leave evidence is great, but that's the sort of pre-requisite expected for a 30 RPR, and balancing a feature based on everyone doing so is foolish.

[Hazard]

let me put it this way. Exiling people all the way won’t piss people of? Aspecialy when the reasons are meh or people are to powerhunry and don’t want to lose controle cause they screwed up. You complain about some thing that has been around for years and worked fine. Get your hans dirty maybe then? If you think it is so easy. I already said its a waste of gold. But its so funny how hard stuck you lot are on it wil it is reletive easy to get it all back withou even spending a dime! And resources that have been taken are donated to other setlments That people are to lazy to check up wher it went and just trow assumptions all the way point fingers wile facts can not be proven. That other setlments hold the said resources, Maybe RP to get it back? That said. I already gave to manny hints and sugestions. I withdraw my self from this post now.

[clanogrady]

Alright... a few thoughts of mine.

First off, this is to discuss how un-intuitive and current Resources/Warehouse menu is and how difficult it is to navigate for people.

I've no experience with handling settlement menus and such myself, but the question needs to be asked... how can the interface be better improved?


Secondly, this is now the second time people have started to discuss settlement mechanics and the value of the RP or not in it when it affects particular groups in power of settlements. The groups in question are also ones that have no problem with hitting the limits on their exile boards.

Safeguards are already built into the settlement system, the settlements don't need large stockpiles. They need just enough to cover their expense which the Trade Czars/ministers prevent people from purchasing below.

If a person, simply dumps hundreds of thousands of Units of resources into a trash bin. I get the feeling that the DM's would jump all over them and call it greifing because of the lack of interactive RP and it becoming reactionary. Find the missing resources, form a task force, infiltrate or bribe citizens and then get the resources back.

If you want to discuss the lack of RP value with the resources and such, make a new feedback thread please.

This thread is supposed to be on the Menu/Dialogue and how it could be better revamped to be friendly.

[DM Sollers]

let me put it this way. Exiling people all the way won’t piss people of? Aspecialy when the reasons are meh or people are to powerhunry and don’t want to lose controle cause they screwed up. You complain about some thing that has been around for years and worked fine. Get your hans dirty maybe then? If you think it is so easy. I already said its a waste of gold. But its so funny how hard stuck you lot are on it wil it is reletive easy to get it all back withou even spending a dime! And resources that have been taken are donated to other setlments That people are to lazy to check up wher it went and just trow assumptions all the way point fingers wile facts can not be proven. That other setlments hold the said resources, Maybe RP to get it back? That said. I already gave to manny hints and sugestions. I withdraw my self from this post now.

Be nice. Don't harangue others. Don't grief the system. Thanks for the impromptu report.

Get back on topic or let this thread die.

[Memelord]

If a person, simply dumps hundreds of thousands of Units of resources into a trash bin. I get the feeling that the DM's would jump all over them and call it greifing because of the lack of interactive RP and it becoming reactionary. Find the missing resources, form a task force, infiltrate or bribe citizens and then get the resources back.

Who the DMs punish and to what degree is not information that is available to the public, however, so we can't temper our feedback on the system with that in mind. The repeated insistence that the resources end up donated to another settlement, however, is largely not backed up by fact - there are several of us who make a circuit of every settlement recording resource stockpiles at least every few months IG because of these sorts of things happening, and it's almost never the case that they end up deposited elsewhere.

Please don't mistake my repeated complaints about the faults of this system on not wanting to put in the effort IC to discover who's at fault; the effort has been put in, that's why I complain about it so much. There's very little recourse to be had beyond repeatedly body'ing someone after they donate your resources to a trash barrel, which is never a healthy option for the server.

If the DMs are policing this behind the screen, then I say, kudos. Good on them, and thank you. But that's just a stopgap, a band aid on a system that has been largely outpaced and made unfunctional by years of change and monetary hording.