Fixed dispel checks

[flower]

With the issue of mundanes immune to dispels and casters overly vulnerable, why not tie dispel checks to fixed values. It will make everyone even.

Something along linie:
Lesser dispel removes effect on roll 18+
Dispel removes effect on roll 16+
Greater dispel removes effect on roll 14+
Holy sword 18+


Now, abjuration feats would each lower it by one, epic by two. This means greater dispel would dispel effect on 10+ for epic abjurer (same disjunction plus breach effects).

Arcane defense would increase difficulty by two up.

By this semi casters are more difficult to dispel while mundanes become more vulnerable (but still it is 50:50).

It would also open more building options for all casters because now various hybrids would be viable.

[Hunter548]

This would probably take battleclerics, spellswords, bards and some paladin builds, and forcibly toss them into the trash. I also don't like the holy sword nerf.

That said, the idea of a "fixed" dispel check has merit; I'd suggest doing it the other way; If 10 or more of your levels are in a caster class, you have a dispel "dc" of your CL. Otherwise, your dispel "dc" is (some number). You'd need to fiddle with the math to ensure mundanes could lose, say, death ward or w/e if you wanted to dispel them, but not so bad that it'd be a sure enough thing that they can't fight casters reliably.

[flower]

This would probably take battleclerics, spellswords, bards and some paladin builds, and forcibly toss them into the trash. I also don't like the holy sword nerf.

That said, the idea of a "fixed" dispel check has merit; I'd suggest doing it the other way; If 10 or more of your levels are in a caster class, you have a dispel "dc" of your CL. Otherwise, your dispel "dc" is (some number). You'd need to fiddle with the math to ensure mundanes could lose, say, death ward or w/e if you wanted to dispel them, but not so bad that it'd be a sure enough thing that they can't fight casters reliably.

Right now, battlecleric with 23 lvls is
12+23 vs 26+d20 ...outcome is 9+ roll on d20.

In the fixed way they would get better by being 10+. If abjuration defense, then 12+ instead of 11+. Fully caster builds would become a bit more dispellable but you could now go less levels of caster.

The holy sword would receive ABJ bonuses. So fixed value woudl be around 16+ on hit (that is a lot, you just need to hit ).

I forgot to mention. That Scrolls and wands and other non caster sources would have lower value, to be a lot less effective (breach is untouched by this suggestion).


However numbers are here presented only how the system could work. Their ranges can go different.

[-XXX-]

Any solution that'd make the "undispellable mundanes" nonsense go away and rectify it to the correct "mundanes lose UMD wards to stiff breeze" works for me.

[Hunter548]

Any solution that'd make the "undispellable mundanes" nonsense go away and rectify it to the correct "mundanes lose UMD wards to stiff breeze" works for me.

"Mundanes lose UMD wards to a stiff breeze" just creates the inverse problem; suddenly barbarians and WMs or what not get eaten alive by casters without a caster friend of their own. That's not any better of a design paradigm.

[-XXX-]

I believe that we can both agree on this fairly accurate statement taken from another thread:

Save or loose spells are already in bad spot. Most characters gearing for PvP on epic lvl will have saves nearly equal to DC or even at same value. Those who do not gear for it do not matter (because, if you focus on that you can negate these spells).

We might then conclude that the design paradigm seemingly aims to attain balance without taking UMD into account whatsoever.
In that case non-caster classes should be probably grateful that they are even allowed the access to any spells and magical wards of any quality at all.
That being said, I feel like I must insist that I find the notion of melee classes having access to superior wards by the sheer virtue of them being non-casters as absolutely ridiculous.
I can't help but wonder why and how is this still a thing TBH.

[flower]

Hunter is right in that if magic becomes irrelevant for mundanes it would break things.

But if all, casters and mundane, were same in difficulty to dispel, it would be fair.

[Hazard]

Any solution that'd make the "undispellable mundanes" nonsense go away and rectify it to the correct "mundanes lose UMD wards to stiff breeze" works for me.

I second this.

[Nobs]

Any solution that'd make the "undispellable mundanes" nonsense go away and rectify it to the correct "mundanes lose UMD wards to stiff breeze" works for me.

I second this.

Yeah how are wards from a wand just as strong as a ward cast by a level 27 wiz....get that 5 umd on a WM and you are a wizard that crits for 130 a hit...makes no sense.

[MissEvelyn]

But if all, casters and mundane, were same in difficulty to dispel, it would be fair.

Absolutely this. I've questioned time and again why it hasn't already been implemented.