High Level Material Ingots

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The Rambling Midget
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by The Rambling Midget » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Cybernet21 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:44 pm
It's not like the people who got the addy payed for it,they just mined it.
I am genuinely staggered by the ignorance of this attitude, and I'm going to stop there, because that's about as politely as I can possibly say it.

They paid for it in time, resources, and risk. Going to these places is not free and carries a high chance of death or even a party wipe. It's not unusual to expend thousands of gp worth of magical items, wand charges, and healing supplies per character in order to reach an adamantine deposit, which might only provide 1-2 chunks of ore, or might not even be there at all. It could take half a dozen trips to these dangerous places in order to mine the materials for a single suit of armor, the profits from which must be split between the many participants, after having been partially lost to expenses. This is Business 101.

I suggest that you round up a party, just once, and go out to mine some adamantine yourself, so that you can learn to appreciate the hard work done by your benefactors.
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Cybernet21 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:37 pm

I didn't say it wasn't hard to get,i was just saying how 50 K is still a lot for one ingot since they didn't pay directly in gold for it so they are still making a profit,i didn't mean it the way you interpreted it.

EDIT: But as we all seem to agree,it seems price for trading should remain IC

EDIT 2: In case you didn't get what i really meant yet i'll explain: The "Just mine it" i used i was trying to mean that you don't directly pay to mine the ore,you literally just mine it as in click it and mine it,you don't lose money for clickling Bash on the ore.So they are not directly paying for it. There,i hope it clears the misunderstanding
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Blood on my Lips » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:56 pm

To the OP: You do pay. In skill, gear, scrolls, kits, wands, for you and your party to actually GET to the location where the ore might possibly be. Or not. Because someone beat you to it. And even if it's there, you may not come home with much. Just because someone didn't pay for the ore with gold, doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

The Rambling Midget is right. You really need to gather a party and go find out for yourself exactly what it's like to try to gather these materials.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by The Rambling Midget » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:03 am

Cybernet21 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:37 pm
I didn't say it wasn't hard to get,i was just saying how 50 K is still a lot for one ingot since they didn't pay directly in gold for it so they are still making a profit,i didn't mean it the way you interpreted it.

EDIT: But as we all seem to agree,it seems price for trading should remain IC

EDIT 2: In case you didn't get what i really meant yet i'll explain: The "Just mine it" i used i was trying to mean that you don't directly pay to mine the ore,you literally just mine it as in click it and mine it,you don't lose money for clickling Bash on the ore.So they are not directly paying for it. There,i hope it clears the misunderstanding
You still don't understand. Adamantine deposits are not found on the side of the road. It costs time and gold to get to them. Indirect costs are no less valid than direct ones.

What you're saying is as ridiculous as suggesting that a sandwich at the grocery store should only cost you a nickel, because it only took you two seconds to grab it off the shelf, while ignoring the work of the farmers who raised the crops and cattle, the bakers who made the bread, the butchers who cut and cooked the meat, and the deli workers who put it all together in a neatly wrapped package for your convenience.

You don't get to decide what a fair price is, when someone else is doing the work. In a free market economy, prices drop when a competitor offers the same quality of service for a lower price. If you want lower prices, you'll have to do the work, yourself.
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Cybernet21
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Cybernet21 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:07 am

I said directly pay,i do get it that you pay indirectly,still 50 K per ingot plus the dungeon loot doesn't sounds all that bad as in losing all the worth it has when sold. But i already agreed if you want to let the economy be as realistic as you can(as you seem to want it) sure,was just defending my side.

EDIT: Btw i think this is being taken a bit too seriously. You'd think people would do this mainly for fun and not the best type of profit on game money(sure getting the gold is cool too,but should it be the main goal?). Unlike the objective of real life bussiness,wich is making the best profit they can get
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Dirac » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:25 am

Cybernet21 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:07 am
EDIT: Btw i think this is being taken a bit too seriously. You'd think people would do this mainly for fun and not the best type of profit on game money(sure getting the gold is cool too,but should it be the main goal?).
Kids got the runic chests on timers, you have no idea how ate up they are so be careful on these forums you may get verbally attacked.

BTW, Addy chunks sell real slow at ~50k and really fast at ~30k so you pick your poison.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by The Rambling Midget » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:57 am

Cybernet21 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:07 am
You'd think people would do this mainly for fun
They do. Getting short changed for your work isn't fun.
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Hunter548 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:08 am

TimeAdept wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:23 pm
a bunch of stuff
This is why adamantine is so expensive. The price is being inflated by a constraint on supply; Fairly basic economics. I can sympathize with being annoyed that it's hard to get ahold of, but this right here is the issue. Players selling it are simply reacting to how rare/annoying it is to gather.

If you want to see the situation change, suggest a change to the ore rotation system, or go petition settlement leaders to handle the problem in game.
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Cybernet21
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Cybernet21 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:47 am

Alright i think the main topic has already been discussed and before this develops into something unpleasent i think it's best to be locked,so please do. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts about the matter with me,i'm sorry if i may have sounded rude to anyone.
My family were all knights,but none protected those who cannot fight for themselves.They all cared about their noble status more than anything else.I would be a true knight,i would train on the ways of the paladin -Arcavius Ryde

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:59 am

If RDI didn't have a deposit it'd be even more expensive.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by The Kriv » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:21 am

The Rambling Midget wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:17 pm
Cybernet21 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:44 pm
It's not like the people who got the addy payed for it,they just mined it.
I am genuinely staggered by the ignorance of this attitude, and I'm going to stop there because that's about as politely as I can possibly say it.

They paid for it in time, resources, and risk. Going to these places is not free and carries a high chance of death or even a party wipe. It's not unusual to expend thousands of GP worth of magical items, and charges, and healing supplies per character in order to reach an adamantine deposit, which might only provide 1-2 chunks of ore, or might not even be there at all. It could take half a dozen trips to these dangerous places in order to mine the materials for a single suit of armor, the profits from which must be split between the many participants, after having been partially lost to expenses. This is Business 101.

I suggest that you round up a party, just once, and go out to mine some adamantine yourself so that you can learn to appreciate the hard work done by your benefactors.
Supply/demand economics also factors into the equation the buyers. Does it aggravate you that prices are so high for Addy nuggets? Yes? Don't buy them. It's only a difference of +1. Take it a step further... do not -EVER- purchase from any shop that sells Addy nuggets at absurd prices.

Take this to others IG. Play out your frustration at the situation and sway more people to your side.

As a player, I find it extremely aggravating that the cost of this end-game gear is so astronomical that you can't break into end-game gear until you are already doing end-game content... and by then... well if you're already doing it... why bother?

If no one buys it at those prices, then the cost comes down.

BUT... this isn't normal economy... this is game economy. It costs you nothing to *NOT* set your prices so astronomically high because you KNOW eventually there's going to be some rich char who just doesn't care how much it costs, they're going to purchase it anyway. That's why this is *NOT* economics 101. This more like Economics 466. This is senior-level economics. The factors are not simple supply and demand because this is not a manufactured goods/naturally occurring resource market. This is man-made. This is the Fed decides to raise interest rates, or to print more money... and that isn't simple. This is complex. Sorry.

And it's not like it's a naturally occurring substance that can physically run out forever. The supply of this material is controlled ultimately by Dev's. They are the gatekeepers. If they open the floodgates, and suddenly Addy veins are spawning in the first level of Bloodmoon Caverns, you'll see the prices drop because suddenly it's not so rare.

If the price is as high as it is, it is because the Dev/DM team allow it to be so.

A plea to them with a good case could sway them to rethink it... and some hearty well played and consistent RP of aggravated consumers who refuse to support such prices might grease those gears.


When it comes right down to it, the extra +1 AC won't break you... it might make your life a little more difficult... but ultimately, remember, it's about the journey!
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by naturaly » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:08 am

There are mainline stores now that sell adamantine ingots for 60k. Keep checking stores.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by -XXX- » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:19 am

Engame gear is hardly some sort of miraculous entry ticket to the endgame PvE content.
Strong builds can partake in it even with mediocre gear, while mediocre builds won't be saved even by the best equipment.

But most importantly, I want a pony and a yacht! Shouldn't we focus on that?!

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by msterswrdsmn » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:45 pm

Adamantine gear isn't -that- much better as noted. Theres a lot of other IG alternatives that can do reasonably well (sometimes better) than adamantine gear. Some are situational, like celestial crowns (+5 AC vs dragons/undead/outsiders, the most common high end pve enemies), Ankheg shields (+5 vs slashing, the most common damage type) and several of the higher-end armors (slightly less AC with stat/skill/save bonuses).

The only item i can think of that is end game that people might consistantly need is masterly damask weaponry. Which, thankfully, don't need 8 ingots (16 chunks!) of adamantine.

I can totally relate to struggling with IG prices though. Sadly, theres not much you can really do except try to find good deals and protest IG. Which reminds me; its probably time for Sei to paint the side of another building.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by McDuck » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:38 pm

Just going to make a comment, and i think that is with most merchents point of vieuw (correct me if i am wrong) if a merchent is inrested in selling it, ther is always a way to negotiate prices with so said player who sells the wares/materials. speedy messengers are a usefull tool :D

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by MineTurtle » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:31 pm

McDuck wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:38 pm
Just going to make a comment, and i think that is with most merchents point of vieuw (correct me if i am wrong) if a merchent is inrested in selling it, ther is always a way to negotiate prices with so said player who sells the wares/materials. speedy messengers are a usefull tool :D
Sadly with a pool of two thousand Arelithian, the odds of the one who owns the shop you happen to want to purchase something from being online at the same time as you and being free for a speedy are somewhat remote.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Durvayas » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:31 pm

MineTurtle wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:31 pm
McDuck wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:38 pm
Just going to make a comment, and i think that is with most merchents point of vieuw (correct me if i am wrong) if a merchent is inrested in selling it, ther is always a way to negotiate prices with so said player who sells the wares/materials. speedy messengers are a usefull tool :D
Sadly with a pool of two thousand Arelithian, the odds of the one who owns the shop you happen to want to purchase something from being online at the same time as you and being free for a speedy are somewhat remote.
Conversely, the players who have and maintain shops tend to be more active than the average, so your odds go up as long as you're somewhat close to their time zone.
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by MineTurtle » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:08 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:31 pm
MineTurtle wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:31 pm
McDuck wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:38 pm
Just going to make a comment, and i think that is with most merchents point of vieuw (correct me if i am wrong) if a merchent is inrested in selling it, ther is always a way to negotiate prices with so said player who sells the wares/materials. speedy messengers are a usefull tool :D
Sadly with a pool of two thousand Arelithian, the odds of the one who owns the shop you happen to want to purchase something from being online at the same time as you and being free for a speedy are somewhat remote.
Conversely, the players who have and maintain shops tend to be more active than the average, so your odds go up as long as you're somewhat close to their time zone.

I like to think I've been a pretty active as a player. I was Mayor of Wharftown, twice, and during both of those entire tenures, I was lucky if I saw more than a couple of people that ran the shops there. It gets a lot worse when you're trying to catch someone who owns a stall in the crows nest or somewhere even more obscure. The Cordor Government has to manage shops by sticking giant 'WE WILL EVICT YOU' notices in front of them to eventually arrange meetings with store owners, which isn't exactly pratical for the average shopper.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by MissEvelyn » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:34 am

MineTurtle wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:08 pm
The Cordor Government has to manage shops by sticking giant 'WE WILL EVICT YOU' notices in front of them to eventually arrange meetings with store owners, which isn't exactly pratical for the average shopper.
Ugh, yeah. That certainly sucks the fun out of being a shopkeeper.


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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by TimeAdept » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 am

It sucks the fun out of being a shpper when 75% of the stores are garbage though, hence why Cordor does it

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naturaly
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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by naturaly » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:33 am

What is the kindest, most effective way to inform a shop owner their stuff is not worth selling? I ask this seriously.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by -XXX- » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:40 am

Not buying it

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by flower » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:52 pm

Two things

1) people have freedom to sell stuff for whatever price They like and as long as someone buys it? Good. I am just put off when items are placed into shops to act as placeholders with insane ammount of gold noone would pay for it.

2) rare materials. *Coughs coughs*.

Once my toon and her friends hit 23+ we were doing most of these epic and dangerous places (not all, most). Good teamwork / set up party makes up for lack of gear. We never had issue to mine adamantite just some crazy folks kept burning it in basin (yes redhawks i look at you!).

And once we hit epics with gear, many of my companions were able to solo these places. Outcome usually paid off resources put into it. My own character struggled at solo, because of ever present dispel on my cleric. But there were places she could solo on her own, and where addy had been.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm

Funniest thing is they'd expect they'd start to drop in price like rogue stones and Mithril dust, but the love of those M.damask keen weapons keeps the price sky high.

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Re: High Level Material Ingots

Post by msterswrdsmn » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:16 pm

naturaly wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:33 am
What is the kindest, most effective way to inform a shop owner their stuff is not worth selling? I ask this seriously.
Usually face to face. Note; this is the most effective/kindest way, not the easiest/most reliable way.

A lot of people genuinely have no idea what to sell or how to sell it. Kind of like how a lot of people don't know you need to take EVERYTHING out of a chest/bookshelf or the loot will never respawn. Ie: explaining that while the magical rings that randomly generate can be nice, the market for those is oversaturated and your +1 stat and two +1 skill ring is not worth 5000 gold. Or that the "item value" on the item itself is sometimes a lie/can be sold for a different amount.

The biggest IG reason I see for marking up stuff is "it took me a long time to make it" which is fair, but you might need to explain IG that doesn't mean marking something up by 300% is a good way to sell the finished product.

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