The Grind Ecconomy:

[dominantdrowess]

I personally? Enjoy solo grinding.

But I also think that the most advantageous things in a multiplayer environment? Should be events that have group participation.

I personally would like to see an -increase- in gold gains from the Rune Dungeons and other high-level content to receive a gold boost, and other group content to encourage max-level characters to tackle high-level zones, rather than soloing lower level dungeons. Some important level zones are the optimal grind-zones for solo level 30 characters.

Duergar / Deepgiants / Avernus / Minmir Caverns / Eastern Ruins Spirits ...

These zones? Have the -same- gold drops as Cloakers, Lowerdark Dungeons, Udos Droxun, Eternal Mountain ... and all of these zones require more balanced parties, and have gimmicks that require you to think, and move, adjust positioning, and use tactics or class-balance and organization to your advantage.

But going to Duergar and slapping the snot out of things in 3 hits, doesn't. You actually, legitimately get more gold for time investment going to low-level zones than you do finding a party for big dungeons... and I just don't think it's healthy game design for the optimal economic advancement to be soloing Avernus, Deep Djolm, Minmir Caverns or Eastern Ruins.

Doing exciting things with other people, should be more rewarding than being bored alone. No matter what, to an extent, there will always be a portion of the population that does -the- most optimal thing... and I don't think that encouraging them to go it alone hours per day to get the things they want is healthy for the RP community of Arelith.

I think spending the same time investment in a major dungeon... even with the gold-split, and pauses to communicate/type/RP ... should be just as profitable, if not more so, than going into a lowbie-dungeon, and slapping ogres around with a keen sword. This fosters groups, fosters community, and makes people valuable to each other. It helps to build mutual need and necessity.

I am not saying that I feel the solo-grinding should go away ... I would probably do it regardless of if it was optimal or not: When I am stressed? I go click on monsters and think about recent RP's and mull things around in my head. I don't think solo grinding needs to be legislated against or be against the rules ... I'm saying that we're playing a multiplayer game and avoiding contact and interaction and group-dynamics/negotiation with your fellow player should never be the optimal path to power.

Rather than discouraging? I'd like to see more encouragement and emphasis put on grouping and *needing* eachother.

Some of my fondest memories in Arelith were doing dungeons regularly with people I knew. I still try to do this ... but ... a lot of people these days? Get a lot more bang for their buck when they have limited time to play ... out of just solo-grinding toward their goals. And I think it's a shame that this is the optimal way to get gold.

[Aodh Lazuli]

You know how the XP reward increases when in a party, with the largest boost to XP being in a party of four? Just give a similar percentage increase on gold/loot drops from mobs.

It is worth noting that in terms of time-to-profit ratio, you already break about even. We can assume a party of four people churns through mobs at four times the rate of one person alone, thus generating the same amount of gold in one quarter of the time.

However, I do agree that higher level dungeons require better loot and gold drops from mobs.

[dominantdrowess]

Yeah~ I just feel like-- going and spending an hour.. killing Pandamonium and Maur with four people ... and going and spending an hour slapping the snot out of Deep Giants alone... Even when we have someone with High Search on the mobs... the total never comes out to what I can get, if I drop party, and go killing solo in a low level zone (even without search skill!). Never even comes close to breaking even.

I don't know much about how Search skill influences, or scaling etc~ I just don't want to create a situation where it's profitable for 4 level 30's to run around in the same low level zones they used to solo. ;D

[Ork]

You bring up a good point. Increase search % of loot 15% for every party member to a maximum of 60% for 4.

[dominantdrowess]

You bring up a good point. Increase search % of loot 15% for every party member to a maximum of 60% for 4.

Wouldn't this just create a situation where those four players skip Maur, and go kill Deep Djolm, putting them in the same level 17 - 25 zones, if they could get 60% more gold from search and spot in there too?

I really think it requires something, mechanically on the specific monsters in the specific zones you want to funnel high level characters into.

This solution would compound the problem I've presented. Instead of grinding Deep Giants solo ... I'd grab the highest spot character, and two buddies, and still be in the newbie zone, rather than where I think the staff would prefer max level characters to be: Rune dungeons, and end-game content.

[Cybernet21]

I agree with this,so many times i got more gold for my time soloing a dungeon that wasn't made for character's of my level (eince i would get destroyed soloing dungeons of my level alone) than with a group of the same level range at a dungeon that was actually the same level as us,during the same time window

EDIT: But you gotta remember people don't do dungeons for gold only,we do it for xp too. But i do agree we need better loot at highet level dungeons

[Durvayas]

You bring up a good point. Increase search % of loot 15% for every party member to a maximum of 60% for 4.

Wouldn't this just create a situation where those four players skip Maur, and go kill Deep Djolm, putting them in the same level 17 - 25 zones, if they could get 60% more gold from search and spot in there too?

I really think it requires something, mechanically on the specific monsters in the specific zones you want to funnel high level characters into.

This solution would compound the problem I've presented. Instead of grinding Deep Giants solo ... I'd grab the highest spot character, and two buddies, and still be in the newbie zone, rather than where I think the staff would prefer max level characters to be: Rune dungeons, and end-game content.

I think since the scripts we use today supported such ill-advised code as the anti-grinding script of the past which keyed off area, and the currently reviled anti-powerlevel writ code that keys off party member level, I don't think it is a stretch to assume that it is well within the realm of possibility for a script to be developed that takes into account the level of the people in the party, the number of people in the party, and also takes into account what area they are in. I think it could probably be adjusted to reward parties of certain sizes at certain level ranges in certain level range areas.

In short, I think what ork is suggesting is doable while preventing what dominantdrowess is worried about at the same time.

[dominantdrowess]

Huh~ Maybe like a CR-compare thing?

[dominantdrowess]

I agree with this,so many times i got more gold for my time soloing a dungeon that wasn't made for character's of my level (eince i would get destroyed soloing dungeons of my level alone) than with a group of the same level range at a dungeon that was actually the same level as us,during the same time window

EDIT: But you gotta remember people don't do dungeons for gold only,we do it for xp too. But i do agree we need better loot at highet level dungeons

And yeah, this is pretty much the essence of it. I actively PREFER doing high level dungeons ... but basically we get taxed on our goals and efforts to influence the game world for engaging in these high level zones.

[Cybernet21]

I find it sad this died down ;-; Anyways i noticed the same thing again. I leveled with another character yesterday,with 1-2 hours leveling with them on epic areas that my character can't solo and i got a little less in terms of Gold than a 45 min leveling i do with my character in an easier area (one my character can solo).

I really feel like loot from mobs should scale to party size,up to 4 same as xp above that it starts falling (slower than it rises from 1 to 4 but still falls) it would feel more rewarding

[ActionReplay]

I think gold is capped after CR 15 on mobs, after that it does not scale any more. Might have changed though.

[Memelord]

I don't really think there's much of a need for a gold increase - if anything, gold is far too easy to generate presently. I can pretty easily generate about a million gold in just over a week, only grinding for an hour or two every day, in epic level areas.

[Nitro]

In that case reduce the gold earned in lower level dungeons so epics have less reason to go to them when they want easy cash without burning resources.

[TimeAdept]

What does trhat have to do with what he said about getting the money in epic areas?

[Nitro]

Because as actionreplay just said, gold is capped after CR 15 which means anything he can grind in an epic area, he can do easier in a lower level area which is why we see higher levels doing a quick circle of lower level areas now and then to get some easy cash.

[TimeAdept]

So your solution is to punish everyone else while levelling because he's not even doing the thing you're saying is a problem?

[Rook]

Because as actionreplay just said, gold is capped after CR 15 which means anything he can grind in an epic area, he can do easier in a lower level area which is why we see higher levels doing a quick circle of lower level areas now and then to get some easy cash.

Spontaneous thought, didn't think that one through, so I am sure it has a gaping flaw or something, but:

Would it be feasible to tie gold and drops to XP? If you run around as a level 30 in a level 20 area, you won't get much XP for that, maybe it should work the same for the gold/drops as well?

[Rooshi49]

Sounds like an interesting concept, but alas, that would also cap the amount of gold that can be made by larger groups through epic dungeons even further.

[Memelord]

Because as actionreplay just said, gold is capped after CR 15 which means anything he can grind in an epic area, he can do easier in a lower level area which is why we see higher levels doing a quick circle of lower level areas now and then to get some easy cash.

Gold is capped after around CR15, sure. But gold is only one source of revenue. At least 50%, if not closer to 65-75%, of my income from a given trip comes from selling other items.

[Cybernet21]

I don't really think there's much of a need for a gold increase - if anything, gold is far too easy to generate presently. I can pretty easily generate about a million gold in just over a week, only grinding for an hour or two every day, in epic level areas.

We're talking about when it comes to parties,you get more money alone on lower level areas soloing than with a group of 4 on an area of your level. A level 30 character on a level 20-25 dungeon normally makes more gold than a group of four 30's on a level 30 dungeon on the same time window,plus some people just hate soloing or don't have time for grinding every day,this is an RP server after all, sometimes the RP just makes it impossible to grind depending of your time avaiable to play,some people only have 1-2 hours to play a day.

Making Groups receive more gold would not only encourage the forming of groups rather than soloing,it would also help tremendously the people who don't have a lot of time for Arelith to get decent savings to actually be able to buy wands/consumables and gear without being broke most times.They would also get more XP since a group already helps with that

EDIT: Basically would you rather A) Generate 1 million gold in a week soloing easier dungeons during 1-2 hours every day of the week as you say or B)Generate the same amount of gold with a group of 4 characters on a more challenging/fun dungeon for 2 hours during 3 days of the week (spaced,for example on Monday,Wednesday and Friday) and thus have more time avaibale for RP?

[Memelord]

I would rather not see more gold generated, period. It's already far too easy to make, solo or in a group. The places that generate large sums of gold are good for generating large sums of gold - the places that don't give other rewards, like mithril and addy, massive stacks of high end chestloot, and rune materials. Why do the two need to meet?

[Rooshi49]

I'm all for trying to make it more interesting for higher level players to work together to get money, but I do agree that gold shouldn't be generated in greater quantities than what it already is.

But do you know what could fix that? Gold sinks. More gold sinks. Better gold sinks.

[Hazard]

I'm all for trying to make it more interesting for higher level players to work together to get money, but I do agree that gold shouldn't be generated in greater quantities than what it already is.

But do you know what could fix that? Gold sinks. More gold sinks. Better gold sinks.

Gold sinks that don't offer mechanical power. Something fun that isn't more stats and power creep and imbalances.

Uh. Maybe very expensive re-leveling for gold? Level 30s only. I don't know.

[Rooshi49]

I have a great idea. Several of them actually. But I'll just elaborate on one of them.

Essentially whenever there's any change to the server, there should be a way for players to contribute IC gold and resources to trying to make the change bigger or better. If certain criteria are met, them small changes could be added into the area or system that make it slightly better. There could be a memorial or something that shows a dedication to certain factions that helped create the area or service in question and shows the percentage of how much a certain faction or individual contributed. This wouldn't create any more powerful gear or characters. It would be giving away gold to essentially a void for bragging rights. AND IT WOULD MAKE SENSE. I know the DMs don't like the idea of having any IC resources or gold working towards things that happen IG, but it honestly does make sense that gold and resources would be needed to make a new town or area or something.

(yes ladies and gentlemen, this is kind of like how kickstarters are)

Honestly, as a side note. Like many other marketing ploys, it doesn't have to be truthful to a tee. It could be made like the "illusion of choice" in dialogues where the things that were promised were going to happen anyways, but it still gives the gratification of contributing and thinking you made a difference.

[-XXX-]

You can create memorials IG with arguably minimal effort already.