Heavly restricting portal lenses: discussion

[strong yeet]

It promotes lousy, consequence-free RP and contributes to more of an action server feeling than it does an RP server.

I'm not really sure I agree with this. When I played my cackles-evil drow elf I always preferred it if people escaped or lensed or whatever because only a very scant few people are going to roll their character or something after they die. It's much less of a stupid continuity break if someone doesn't have to sit there and explain how they're still alive. Just killing some guy after he mouths off is cool I guess but it doesn't exactly go anywhere and I don't expect anyone to rp any "consequences" (though God knows what that means) because of it.

[Durvayas]

It promotes lousy, consequence-free RP and contributes to more of an action server feeling than it does an RP server.

I'm not really sure I agree with this. When I played my cackles-evil drow elf I always preferred it if people escaped or lensed or whatever because only a very scant few people are going to roll their character or something after they die. It's much less of a stupid continuity break if someone doesn't have to sit there and explain how they're still alive. Just killing some guy after he mouths off is cool I guess but it doesn't exactly go anywhere and I don't expect anyone to rp any "consequences" (though God knows what that means) because of it.

Basically this.

I also wish there weren't penalties for using subdual and wish it were the default setting, because it would make conflict easier to explain than. "I killed so-and-so... twice... then I captured him yesterday. He died during torture but the war continues. I guess I have to keep killing him every couple days until his faction offers terms"

It would make wars a matter of shows of strength, like 'the outsiders' style rumbles, rather than "making up reasons why we're all coming back from the dead" It would also make guard RP a lot easier if you had to REALLY intend to kill someone to kill them.

[TroubledWaters]

Yeah, for that reason I tend not to RP PvP deaths as "killing", rather just "beating up really badly and leaving for dead".

Just to clarify, I think that portal lenses are useful and definitely a good way of defusing PvP scenarios when both sides want the story to continue to another day without swinging. However, their current form, which is instant and can be pre-loaded to get around -ward and combat, promotes negative player interactions and makes people jumpier as we've got to get our kills off quickly instead of RPing to the extent we'd like.

I also wish subdual were easier to use.

[flower]

…. we've got to get our kills off quickly instead of RPing to the extent we'd like.

....

Uhh sorry? Okay. If success in game or storylinie for you centers around getting your kill, then yes then lenses probably will annoy you a lot. And people will keep lensing off from your character.

[TroubledWaters]

…. we've got to get our kills off quickly instead of RPing to the extent we'd like.

....

Uhh sorry? Okay. If success in game or storylinie for you centers around getting your kill, then yes then lenses probably will annoy you a lot. And people will keep lensing off from your character.

Yeah if I'm a guard and someone robs/kills people in town, I would consider my character's objective of killing the offender to be reasonable. Also if I'm playing a pirate, robbing people at sea would be a reasonable goal of mine.

Likewise, when someone kills my character's friends- vengeance would seem to be a reasonable goal. But lenses as they are now enable one party to wreck/steal/kill whoever and get out quick. This doesn't seem very fun to me.

[flower]

But you mix two things up. You cannot enforce how other people play. Only dm. Killing anyone is not going to put any consequences on them but respawn and death penalties. And what? They will not stop coming to UD/surface because of that. They will not stop coming into a dungeon where you killed them. They will not stop coming into the city, if they do not want themselves. You cannot enforce anything by pvp.

If I am playing a guard or faction member and you do something against my town or faction, I can absolutely enforce how you play. If you are verbally attacking or threatening my character, my character can and will respond.

Once my character does that, the attacker suffers the penalty of the respawn debuff and losing its gold. Seems a fair trade. But the current form of lenses ensures that people can play aggressively without any repercussions because they know they can get out quickly. It promotes lousy, consequence-free RP and contributes to more of an action server feeling than it does an RP server.

No, you cant. The only outcome is possible respawn '(if you ever win, lensing people can be more powerful lol).

When the other side leaves, you were left as winner of the conflict. The issue is your mind set, when you see pvp as the very only solution to the situation. Which is not, and will not be. By killing the person you do not stop her from actions against you in long term. Using other methods (ruining reputation by childish behavior - insulting and lensing-, getting person on eviction/exile list etc etc) will have bigger impact and will yield consequences. Killing, no.

[TroubledWaters]

When the other side leaves, you were left as winner of the conflict. The issue is your mind set, when you see pvp as the very only solution to the situation. Which is not, and will not be. By killing the person you do not stop her from actions against you in long term. Using other methods (ruining reputation by childish behavior - insulting and lensing-, getting person on eviction/exile list etc etc) will have bigger impact and will yield consequences. Killing, no.

PvP through violence and words is part of storytelling and not all characters are connected enough to get people evicted and exiled. I don't think the issue is my mindset, I think the issue is that some assume it's safe for them to do whatever aggressive actions they want and never have to back them up as they can get out for free whenever trouble arises.

In your opinion, why is Arelith a PvP enabled server?

[TimeAdept]

if they left, you won

get them next time.

[TroubledWaters]

Not if they have your gold/items/weapon or killed your friend!

Also if you are a pirate and you are trying to board someone, you don't win if they lens out.

[Durvayas]

Not if they have your gold/items/weapon or killed your friend!

Also if you are a pirate and you are trying to board someone, you don't win if they lens out.

*Shameless plug for the assassin's guild and general bounty hunting(send people to take them alive) RP*

[Ork]

Well this turned into a straight dumpster fire.

[TimeAdept]

Not if they have your gold/items/weapon or killed your friend!

Also if you are a pirate and you are trying to board someone, you don't win if they lens out.

If they lens out you got their boat and it's abandoned until reset. Leave some pirate flags and tr yto bust into the chest.

If the first situation, then try to get them next time. If they have your gold/items/weapon then PVPing them wouldn't have gotten it back anyways, because there's no recourse for the victim in those situations.

[Rooshi49]

Well this turned into a straight dumpster fire.

I like reading the discussions brought up here . . . but I have to agree. Its beating the ground the dead horse was buried in at this point.

The community (at least the forums community) has overwhelmingly used the same arguments over and over and over again to refute any argument to change portal lenses at all.

[The GrumpyCat]

I think this has had all the discussion that is to be had, and can go nowhere good now. So time for a lock.