Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

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Red Ropes
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Red Ropes » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:39 pm

The mythal sucks but also its not that hard to get through. You just have to know how.

Regardless of that - ANYONE.

ANYONE.

Who does hostile activity against settlements or settlement like areas needs DM Oversight and approval. So regardless of your intent, especially if it is violent and murderous. You'd need the team to greenlight it.

Myon isn't really a bunker anymore. It can be broken into. You just can't do that without a DM. Spying, stalking, slithering inside are all very much allowed. I watch people do it all the time.

---

An alignment check shouldn't exist on the pit. But I absolutely, 100%, believe that the fighting pit should restricted to ANDUNORIAN (note that) slaves and outcasts/UD denizens. In this way to ensures its not being used as a tourist attraction. There can be any number of reason as to why. But it should be something special for UD people.

I also think it would be neat that any slave who beat the beast was automatically freed.
🤡

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:00 pm

Red Ropes makes a good point about restricting the pits to Andunorians / slaves. However I think if you lose your collar after defeating the final boss. It might encourage people to collar themselves, attempt the pits and just have it removed as a way to get the buffs.

Ramza
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Ramza » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:01 pm

RedRopes the fact that Myon cannot be broken into WITHOUT a DM or doing some insane metagamey kinda crap by having an alt take people in. IS in fact the problem.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:53 pm

Ramza wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:01 pm
RedRopes the fact that Myon cannot be broken into WITHOUT a DM or doing some insane metagamey kinda crap by having an alt take people in. IS in fact the problem.
Incorrect.

There's a way into Myon that does not involve DMS, or metagaming at all. Not does it involve 'having an alt take people in.'
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by TroubledWaters » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:02 pm

Red Ropes wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:39 pm
But I absolutely, 100%, believe that the fighting pit should restricted to ANDUNORIAN (note that) slaves and outcasts/UD denizens. In this way to ensures its not being used as a tourist attraction. There can be any number of reason as to why. But it should be something special for UD people.

I also think it would be neat that any slave who beat the beast was automatically freed.
Luck of Heroes, Epic Rep, and the BiS belt for most meleers are some pretty big cookies to make UD only. This isn't even taking into consideration the massive stacks of cash you get from betting on yourself. If we go this route, I think there should be a Surface equivalent. Otherwise, every Surface build will be second-class with few available ways to mitigate this comparative weakness.

UD already has faster leveling, better loot, and special resources. Why do you also need to have flat out better characters, as well?

Edit: Oh, you suggested this already.
Red Ropes wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:52 pm
They should just add a 'check', bar non-locals from being able to do it.

and then add a surface version.

das ende
Yeah, makes sense to me. I've seen some people pull the "this should be UD only because UD is special" card and it just sounds anti-balance and anti-fun to me.

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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Kalopsia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 pm

The problem I see is that the surface equivalent would have to be similarly morally questionable - because the last fight balance-wise would have to bear the same risk as a fighting The Beast: Permadeath on failure.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:22 pm

Not really.

The difference would be flavoursome. In the Underdark, the creatures in the cages are -slaves-. Prisoners. Poor, tortured creatures dragged out to be murdered day after day.

A surface version, so long as the people involved are willing, would at least not be as morally questionable. A dueling arena, full of npcs that /chose/ to fight. Could even flavour most of the losses as 'subdued' and only the final boss (the equivilent of The Beast) as truly being 'To the Death.'
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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flower
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by flower » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:31 pm

Ramza wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:30 pm
Well, I have to agree the Mythal is hated. Its kinda the only thing on the entirety of the Server that ensures 'No matter what happens your territory is unbreachable'. Kinda stifles any kind of desire in opposing players to even try to do it, as it would be a merely temporary matter if they went through DMs and the Mythal would be back up and functioning almost immediately after. Making the entire process just a pain with no benefits. It also causes issue in the players of Elves whom live there. What motivation do they have to commit to last ditch efforts or have any sense of peril or urgency when their home is shielded by invulnerable plot armor. Especially considering every other city has methods of getting inside them for those wanting to cause a bit of strife.
Please enlight me, how often UD forces enter behind walls of Cordor or Brogenstein? Yet They have no Mythal.

If Mythal was gone, Myon would have serious guards as other towns and still you would need DM to raid it.


What motivaiton do I have as player of elf to commit myself to the last ditch efforts against pvpers? None. Why should I? Shall I bother fighting your raider today, calling in allies and putting up effort to drive him off just to have him come every second day again? What gives me motivation to join this loop of pvp? Nothing, and it is not going to change even with Mythal gone.

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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Dr_Hazard89 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:52 am

flower wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:31 pm
Shall I bother fighting your raider today, calling in allies and putting up effort to drive him off just to have him come every second day again? What gives me motivation to join this loop of pvp? Nothing, and it is not going to change even with Mythal gone.
Sad truth. It isn't fun to kill the same raiders, over and over again and just have either those exact same people come back, or some others. Most of us keep doing it because we insist on being in character, but as a player, it's super annoying.

You were defeated. GTFO. Don't come back for a long time, please. I feel like this needs a separate thread so that people can discuss a solution.

PvP is a fun part of the game, but if you want to play a villain but also refuse to accept defeat/RP death/fear/any consequences then ... I think there's a problem that needs fixing.
Characters: Xun'sali (ACTIVE), Tianae Tymeaneldth (Rolled), Sylali (Rolled), Magpie (Rolled), Ker'uanna Tymeaneldth (Rolled), Lepota Poklona (Rolled), Andariel Bloodletter (Shelved), Tahl'tril Cyredrretyn (Rolled), L'omithiel (Shelved).

strong yeet
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by strong yeet » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:00 am

I think that's sort of a separate matter entirely that doesn't quite pertain to the Cage in any respect at all. Not to mention it's kind of shitty to point vague fingers on the forums and critique "nobody in particular" for a (sort of) problem that I've seen on both sides of the metaphorical fence.

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TroubledWaters
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by TroubledWaters » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:57 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:22 pm
Not really.

The difference would be flavoursome. In the Underdark, the creatures in the cages are -slaves-. Prisoners. Poor, tortured creatures dragged out to be murdered day after day.

A surface version, so long as the people involved are willing, would at least not be as morally questionable. A dueling arena, full of npcs that /chose/ to fight. Could even flavour most of the losses as 'subdued' and only the final boss (the equivilent of The Beast) as truly being 'To the Death.'
This is a Good Idea.

It doesn't have to be a "good" fight, but a neutral fight that surfacers can do to test their mettle and earn the same tier of rewards that others have access to would go a long way towards stopping random surfacers from trekking out to the UD just for the cage.

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-XXX-
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by -XXX- » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:24 am

Eh, I think that players ought to focus on their own RP more and be less concerned about the business of others. After all, there are DMs around to police players who do things they should not be doing, aen't there.

Penwize
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Re: Andunor Slave Pit Cage Fights

Post by Penwize » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:58 am

Excellent. That was an enlightening journey. Certainly I learned a lot about the state of things and am grateful to get to know better the thoughts, opinions, and worries of my fellow players. Definitely a few things I hadn't considered or understood before reading all of that - and hope it's improved my play.

Really cool to see how it all pointed to a deeper issue in the minds of players: Content disparity and the pros & cons of exclusionary opportunities.

With a new thread about the underdark opened up that's starting much closer to the core of that issue, I bet this one's well and truly finished. Sincerely, y'all are fantastic and keep up the good work.

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