Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Hexgoblin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:26 am

During the span of one term of office, the Devil's Table has had three elections due to the sheer instability of the council system.

A system that encourages two councilors to conspire with one another and writswap will always leave the third councilor effectively obsolete. That's not very cool.

As the player of a politically active character during the last month of DT turmoil, I fully support getting rid of the council system in favor of a single seat district.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Rwby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:40 pm

I know this might come across as ridicious, but perhaps if the three Councillors worked together to create a stable district, rather than constantly backstabbing each other...

Like, literally, all the problems noted in this thread are not caused by the system, they're caused by the councillors. The system certainly enables the councillors to cause these problems, but if ya'll didn't keep electing councillors dedicated to screwing each other over...


I mean. I get the drow side, and the backstabbing, and the betrayal and so forth. But when you've got the Sharps at your door, inches away from taking over the whole city, and Drow Power has fallen far-far-far-far behind the glory days of yore, surely it makes the most sense for the Councillors to desperately be working _together_ in order to stave off the enemy without?

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by LichBait » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:47 pm

Not often feasible, even if all 3 Councilors had the same agenda, sometimes there is a situation where timezones/activity cycles prevent any two from meeting up to do anything with the district. If you don't have two, then a single councilor can do absolutely nothing.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Rwby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:56 pm

That's why you ensure to pass writs to other Councillors. If you were all working together, you'd effectively have 3* The Councillor power, that's three people available to do one persons work.

I'm aware this isn't how it currently works in pratice, but it could be if the players made it that way. You [Whoeever that may be] are the ones causing the endless cycles of elections, not the system.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by dominantdrowess » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:59 pm

Rwby wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:40 pm
I know this might come across as ridicious, but perhaps if the three Councillors worked together to create a stable district, rather than constantly backstabbing each other...

Like, literally, all the problems noted in this thread are not caused by the system, they're caused by the councillors. The system certainly enables the councillors to cause these problems, but if ya'll didn't keep electing councillors dedicated to screwing each other over...


I mean. I get the drow side, and the backstabbing, and the betrayal and so forth. But when you've got the Sharps at your door, inches away from taking over the whole city, and Drow Power has fallen far-far-far-far behind the glory days of yore, surely it makes the most sense for the Councillors to desperately be working _together_ in order to stave off the enemy without?
It isn’t the sharps at our door, it is the other people who want to be councilor in spite of having continuously betrayed and insulted the other councilors from before they were councilors. So they as opposing factions try to push in with votes... then trigger a new election again and again.

These are people who have a long history of being outspoken against eachothers past alliances and activities, and pvp, and theft. Ignoring all that is unlikely from either side. Without naming names or instances you have to remember there are opposing factions drawn along extremist racial lines in Andunor who will never compromise even when you PvP them.

I.e. ganking level 3 outcast chars while they do their delivery quest. And such entities continue to insert themselves into Andunors politics and seek legitimacy through a minor seat on the council for the views a super majority do not hold.

The point of a democracy is some sort of influence on standards of civility by the majority. This will enable us to do this.
Last edited by dominantdrowess on Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by A little fellow » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:03 pm

I must admit, being hauled up in the Dwarven halls all these years, I did not know this system was still in place anywhere on Arelith, as its scrapping from Cordor was pretty much universally welcomed.

I’m a little shocked to hear this system is still in place.

The potential for a 3 counsellor leadership is great, but it requires a constant a consistent effort from three players, each with their own lives away from Arelith, each with varying schedules, interests and most importantly time zones.

When weighed against the negative aspects of this system, whether or not it lends itself to a positive experience for the leaders and the players in their settlement is not really up for discussion ... it doesn’t work. It’d be nice if it worked. But it doesn’t work.
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:28 pm

im going to sum this up with an age old phrase that is perfect

absolute power corrupts absolutely

with no checks and balancing of other seats it becomes a popularity contest easily corrupted by the so called majority.

everyone says this isnt a drow district, then maybe that needs to change other than to suit mechanics

First thoughts of the Underdark when its spoken isnt Outcast humans ruling with their snugglebear friends

i wont name names either, but those snugglebear players know who they are

3 seats are a need or a similar system, not one dictator
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by A little fellow » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:38 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:28 pm
im going to sum this up with an age old phrase that is perfect

absolute power corrupts absolutely

with no checks and balancing of other seats it becomes a popularity contest easily corrupted by the so called majority.

everyone says this isnt a drow district, then maybe that needs to change other than to suit mechanics

First thoughts of the Underdark when its spoken isnt Outcast humans ruling with their snugglebear friends

i wont name names either, but those snugglebear players know who they are

3 seats are a need or a similar system, not one dictator

This shows no trust in fellow players.

Drow politics should be chaos. But the settlement mechanics should provide a platform for players to RP this chaos, rather than simply having a chaotic system. If anything, Drow players might be discouraged from taking part in chaotic RP simply because they have to combat the terrible settlement mechanics before ever initiating their RP.

I disagree that the Devil's Table isn't a Drow district also. Apart from housing numerous Drow NPCs, and Drow themed buildings .. the Drow players have made it theirs for Lloth knows how long? Isn't this good evidence against the idea that IC movements can effect change on Arelith's direction?
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by dominantdrowess » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:39 pm

If there is going to be three it has to be three districts.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by BlossomSeason » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:45 pm

Rwby wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:40 pm
I know this might come across as ridicious, but perhaps if the three Councillors worked together to create a stable district, rather than constantly backstabbing each other...
The exact same argument could be used for Cordor, or for any other settlement. But the 3-councilor system in those places was removed, and for very good reasons. Nothing separates the Devil's Table from these other settlements, because it is not a "Drow District" by design. Consistency in design is crucial for a server, and if those arguments are correct, then the 3-councilor system ought to be reinstated in the other settlements as well. Constructive criticism is good, but this looks a lot like being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:16 am
Drow have no single seat governments in any lore whatsoever.
This is just plainly false.

Chaulssin: It's ruled by the Vhaeraunite "Jaezred Chaulssin", which in turn is ruled by a single leader named Mauzzkyl Jaezred (as of 1372)

Maerimydra: Ruled with an iron fist by the Yathrinshee Irae T'sarran of Kiaransalee.

Undrek'Thoz: A confederation made up of ten individual cities connected by portals. Whilst it's a condeferation, each city is internally independent, and ruled by a -single- House under a Matron Mother, for a total of 10 Houses for the entire confederation.

The examples go on. And even where cities like Menzoberranzan or Ched Nasad where theoretically a council is present, in practice, the council has no real power and the ruling house dictates everything.

Ched Nasad: "Who Really Rules: House Nasadra dominates Ched Nasad with an authority unmatched by even House Baenre of Menzoberranzan at Matron Yvonnel Baenre’s pinnacle. Matron Aunrae Nasadra succeeded her grandmother as Matron Mother in 689 DR, and her power in the city is nigh absolute".

Moreoever, these examples don't even matter, because Andunor is not a Drow city. The position of Drow houses should be compared to that of House Tanor'Thal and House Lysaen in Skullport: They only rule their own little personal enclave in the Heart district of Skullport, and outside of it are just powerful mercantile and political powers without any direct authority whatsoever.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:06 pm

A little fellow wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:38 pm
Drow politics should be chaos. But the settlement mechanics should provide a platform for players to RP this chaos, rather than simply having a chaotic system. If anything, Drow players might be discouraged from taking part in chaotic RP simply because they have to combat the terrible settlement mechanics before ever initiating their RP.
A little fellow wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:38 pm
I disagree that the Devil's Table isn't a Drow district also. Apart from housing numerous Drow NPCs, and Drow themed buildings .. the Drow players have made it theirs for Lloth knows how long? Isn't this good evidence against the idea that IC movements can effect change on Arelith's direction?
Outstanding post, quoted for truth. Emphasis mine.

The Devil's Table is not the "drow district" de jure, but it certainly is de facto. That's not to say they have the "right" to that district, but Andunor's drow have always devoted their efforts to maintaining significant stake in control there, and that is part of why there are strong drow influences there.

There have been non-drow Councilors in the Table before, but historically the drow play their politics there, yep. While a unitary government would remove some of the dynamism that a multiple-ruler system offers, the crux of the issue is that the existing system inhibits RP more than it facilitates it, and Isn't Fun for the many reasons outlined by many people above.

Done.


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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Rwby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:25 pm

I'm still getting the strong vibe the problems here are ooc character ones best addressed by talking nicely with fellow players, and possible DM intervention.

I mean, I'm not defending the system, I'm just saying if everyone works together for the betterment of the server/RP, then it's perfectly workable.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by mazeofthorns » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:26 pm

I'm just waiting for the other races to wake up and take over the Table from drow. Considering the amount of times the votes come up I'm surprised no one has bothered to sneak in and get their candidate elected.

I think the 3 councilor system is a great idea. Keeps drow fighting among themselves and not bothering others. BECAUSE they think ahead of time there is no way to manage it WHEN there definitely is a way to manage it quiet nicely. Again, surprised no one has figured it out.

And considering how drow are, if drow managed to have a single ruler... guess what, they'd get assassinated and I'd wager there would be just as many elections started as there are now.

When they could be making alliances, working to make Andunor stronger, the surface more frightened and STILL be able to do all that great drow intrigue between houses. (Hint: That's how to work the council system btw)

But seems I'm the dissenting opinion so.... *RUNS!!!*
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:35 pm

No, I think you're dead on the money with the desired intentions for the Council system, Maze! To me, I think there are really two big questions here:

One, is it feasible for a Council system to function, in practice, to create that sort of environment in a way that's more intuitive, fun, and accessible than the existing system?

Two, if such a system is feasible in practice (and isn't precluded by the issues inherent to a PW: time zones, persistence, game balance), what are the specific elements within the existing Council system that work and are good, what are the specific elements that are bad and why, and what are potential alternative mechanics that would work better?

Calls for a unitary government to be instated instead (which I support!) are largely because the necessary alterations to settlement mechanics, if decided on and deemed appropriate by the team, would possibly take quite a while to implement, and it'd be nice to have a more functional, more fun district in the meantime.

Done.


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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Ebonstar » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:44 pm

A little fellow wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:38 pm
Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:28 pm
im going to sum this up with an age old phrase that is perfect

absolute power corrupts absolutely

with no checks and balancing of other seats it becomes a popularity contest easily corrupted by the so called majority.

everyone says this isnt a drow district, then maybe that needs to change other than to suit mechanics

First thoughts of the Underdark when its spoken isnt Outcast humans ruling with their snugglebear friends

i wont name names either, but those snugglebear players know who they are

3 seats are a need or a similar system, not one dictator

This shows no trust in fellow players.

Drow politics should be chaos. But the settlement mechanics should provide a platform for players to RP this chaos, rather than simply having a chaotic system. If anything, Drow players might be discouraged from taking part in chaotic RP simply because they have to combat the terrible settlement mechanics before ever initiating their RP.

I disagree that the Devil's Table isn't a Drow district also. Apart from housing numerous Drow NPCs, and Drow themed buildings .. the Drow players have made it theirs for Lloth knows how long? Isn't this good evidence against the idea that IC movements can effect change on Arelith's direction?
there is no trust in fellow players who prove time and time again that they use mechanics over RP

its truly hard to enact Drow RP when there is a threat of some running to a level 30 WM who is happy to give a beatdown to get their way with their pets. It isnt RP its those we have commented on many other threads that always use mechanics to create their way of thinking

The abuse of the settlement mechanics and trying to change them is just another way to tell those who spend months of RP that they and their time and RP dont count cause mechanics wins over RP

im going to back away from this post now, since I have always evaded the clique over the years and I wont join them now
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:05 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:16 am
What the drow do not need is to be shaped into a human sheep style of place for that is a disservice to the Drow and the players who play them.

I have seen players leave of late saying they cant play drow the way they want, and I will admit the thought crossed my mind as well when we moved away from RP back into my mechanics are better than yours so I win mentality.

I have seen players leave because they are not in the popular clique, and are tired of their play not being respected by others, of which the DMs have made announcements about to remind players that behind the other characters are other players as well.
I don't really understand what this has to do with the Devils Table being a non-functional government type.
Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:44 pm
there is no trust in fellow players who prove time and time again that they use mechanics over RP

its truly hard to enact Drow RP when there is a threat of some running to a level 30 WM who is happy to give a beatdown to get their way with their pets. It isnt RP its those we have commented on many other threads that always use mechanics to create their way of thinking

The abuse of the settlement mechanics and trying to change them is just another way to tell those who spend months of RP that they and their time and RP dont count cause mechanics wins over RP

im going to back away from this post now, since I have always evaded the clique over the years and I wont join them now
I don't understand any of this post or how it's applicable.
Last edited by BegoneThoth on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:09 pm

mazeofthorns wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:26 pm
I'm just waiting for the other races to wake up and take over the Table from drow. Considering the amount of times the votes come up I'm surprised no one has bothered to sneak in and get their candidate elected.

I think the 3 councilor system is a great idea. Keeps drow fighting among themselves and not bothering others. BECAUSE they think ahead of time there is no way to manage it WHEN there definitely is a way to manage it quiet nicely. Again, surprised no one has figured it out.

And considering how drow are, if drow managed to have a single ruler... guess what, they'd get assassinated and I'd wager there would be just as many elections started as there are now.

When they could be making alliances, working to make Andunor stronger, the surface more frightened and STILL be able to do all that great drow intrigue between houses. (Hint: That's how to work the council system btw)

But seems I'm the dissenting opinion so.... *RUNS!!!*
1. It's not a drow district.

2. The Sharps is stable and isn't getting assassinated.

3. How can you be expected to make alliances when the other people that got elected with you are the ones you ran against and want the opposite of what you want for the district?
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Rwby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Is it worth noting the three councillor system is effectively permenently preventing the Drow from losing control of the district, since it's unlikely anyone else would be able to get at least two council members elected, and if they did, the third drow member would just cause a relection?

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Sab1 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:05 am
The points made by OP, most especially the Roleplay and Settlement Management sections, hit on a very uncomfortable and straining issue in Andunor.

I have watched or participated in council after council after council where the considerable majority of thought and effort that went into attaining, maintaining, or exercising any power in the Table was devoted to OOC coordination due to a uniquely cumbersome system.

This is not a condemnation of the players that have been involved (as many have been really stellar community members), but acknowledgement that without resigning yourself to a tedious and frustrating meta, your participation in the government mechanics will be largely pointless.

Whatever interesting dynamics we might like to see as a result of the Council system/factional interplay, it has been consistently evidenced for years now that those dynamics are overwhelmed by awkward and really unfun drawbacks.

The strengths and positives of the existing implementation of the Council system are underwhelming and minor in comparison to the drawbacks, which DD summarized in a way that reflects my own thoughts.

These are not isolated complaints specific to current in-game politics. This is endemic to the Table. If it's not in the Andunor team's (Irongron, Dunshine, ActionReplay) interest to just remove the Council system from the Table, then it should rather need to be cut down/streamlined significantly, or overhauled. It generates far more frustration than fun or intrigue.
How would having one leader stop OOC coordination and OOC plotting to gain power? As surface shows it doesn't. Remember when a district was sold to Cordor? One leader doesn't fix the issue of a leader vanishing for long periods of time. How many times has Cordor seen their Chancellor go poof for long periods of time? More leaders means RP actually has to happen with leaders having to manipulate things to how they want it. One leader just means the person gets to do whatever they want without answering to anyone. Fix the voting system, where one CD key gets one vote total, not one vote per settlement. That right there will stop a lot of the issues by making people pick a settlement they really care about.

How is just one leader a lot more fun for most players then a council? It's just more fun for the person who gets to rule.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by reighbo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:17 pm

I'm just waiting for the other races to wake up and take over the Table from drow. Considering the amount of times the votes come up I'm surprised no one has bothered to sneak in and get their candidate elected.
I've actually considered doing that very thing ... actually
What stopped me ?
Ironically, this ...
These are people who have a long history of being outspoken against each others past alliances and activities, and pvp, and theft. Ignoring all that is unlikely from either side. Without naming names or instances you have to remember there are opposing factions drawn along extremist racial lines in Andunor who will never compromise even when you PvP them.
As its also a 2 way street applicable to MANY instances ...
Hense i left out the I.E. given.

I like the Devils Table to have 3 elected winners ... MOSTLY because THAT is really the only issue that seems to keep 1 single faction from being able (playerwize) ruling the whole city ...
ok... the Whole city minus a few NPCs (Freth, Claddath, Peacekeepers).
Its not so hard for a single faction to get 2 of its members elected ... within either District.
Easier yet for a faction to make full use of the settlement's Eviction and Exile powers too keep potential voters from other factions out of BOTH districts.

I understand the 3 winner system is much harder, ... As it was MUCH HARDER on/within, the MORE mixed raced settlement of the Sharps ...
And tho the DMs/Devs state the Devil's Table is NOT a DROW-District, ...
The playerbase has seemed to make it into that very thing.

I would like to see the Table with only the 1 election winner,
...........But only AFTER a 3rd settlement within the UD is produced, and never before hand.
The Council of The Devil's Table has in the past... literally vassaled itself ... in a bid to get rid of the system.
While that makes a tremendous amount of sense ... OOCly,
... it still makes very little sense within the ... RP.
Just not quite as bad as when the Sharps actually vassaled itself with Cordor ... but almost.


:mrgreen:

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by A little fellow » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:31 pm

Sab1 wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:10 pm
How would having one leader stop OOC coordination and OOC plotting to gain power? As surface shows it doesn't. Remember when a district was sold to Cordor? One leader doesn't fix the issue of a leader vanishing for long periods of time. How many times has Cordor seen their Chancellor go poof for long periods of time? More leaders means RP actually has to happen with leaders having to manipulate things to how they want it. One leader just means the person gets to do whatever they want without answering to anyone. Fix the voting system, where one CD key gets one vote total, not one vote per settlement. That right there will stop a lot of the issues by making people pick a settlement they really care about.

How is just one leader a lot more fun for most players then a council? It's just more fun for the person who gets to rule.

Just because all OOC organisation cannot be stopped isn't a good argument against changing something that regularly gives the need for OOC organisation.

Every leader has the potential to be an unhealthy OOC influence.

Each of the council of three has the potential be an unhealthy OOC influence - but in this case it's just about three times more likely.


I think everyone who is against the idea of getting rid of the council of 3 in the Devil's Table must ask themselves honestly if they believe that reinstating a council of three in Cordor would be beneficial to Cordor's RP. I honestly don't believe that anyone can say yes to that.
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by Ork » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:39 pm

Rwby wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:10 pm
Is it worth noting the three councillor system is effectively permenently preventing the Drow from losing control of the district, since it's unlikely anyone else would be able to get at least two council members elected, and if they did, the third drow member would just cause a relection?
I don't agree with this. It would be highly improbably for any elected official in Devil's Table to not have made deals with Drow. Considering the size of the playerbase, it would be improbable and impossible to exile the entire drow population and you'd be fraught with the constant powerstruggle with "Udos Drow". Permanently is hardly a reality and not really a defense for the 3-person councilordom.

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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by mazeofthorns » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:43 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:09 pm

1. It's not a drow district.

2. The Sharps is stable and isn't getting assassinated.

3. How can you be expected to make alliances when the other people that got elected with you are the ones you ran against and want the opposite of what you want for the district?
1. Well... see... the Melee Magthere is there, the Sorcere is there, the architecture is drowish, there is no mansion in Sharps. I think the DM team was thinking to provide an area for drow to be drow in the UD which was very thoughtful. So drow players will probably always think "Hey, Devils Table is for us." Still, I saw DM GrumpyCat say and what I'm saying, it's not a drow district if others claim it. It could be a goblin district if they really wanted.

2. Ahahahah, see it's due to the amazing RP that you think Sharps is stable and no assassinations are ever tried. And that you think it's completely done with just one character. Kudos to the Striefleader for making it look easy.

3. I don't think that anyone that lands on the council wants the opposite of the others for the district. I think that they all want the same thing. For Devils Table to be the supreme power in Andunor. That when the name 'Devils Table' is spoken it is with fear and the thought that no one better make a move against the district without expecting some nasty non-PVP consequence.

Drow make alliances all the time to gain power, even with other houses they want to see destroyed. Granted the alliance only lasts until one side or the other gets what they want but the alliance is still there.

I think what happened is that instead of looking at the outside forces attacking Devils Table/ Andunor there is too much looking at each other. Instead of going after the group freeing slaves and killing Devils Table citizens - too much time was taken trying to kill each other.

But... as Varrik says "I don't have a nug in this race." Just sharing my opinion.
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Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by JediMindTrix » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Skibbles wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:02 am
This needs to happen.


-----------------------------
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:39 am
Devils Table is not, nor was ever truly meant to be 'The Drow District.'

Reguardless of any changes to the councellor system, I doubt that it ever will be enforced as 'The Drow District.'
This has zero bearing on how terrible the current system is, Grumpy.

tangent:
And for all intents & purposes it's been a "Drow"-ran district (also founded by a Drow House) for the vast majority of Andunor's long-running history. For a server that touts itself as being reactive to players, this is remarkably stubborn. Not to mention it uses the Drow Underdark Tileset, it's Temple has Spider Motif's embedded in the walls every player can see, it's main NPC house is Drow etcetc. Drow dominate it, and probably will continue to do so short of railroad DMing.

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BegoneThoth
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Devil's Table Councilor/Writ System

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:17 pm

mazeofthorns wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:43 pm
BegoneThoth wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:09 pm

1. It's not a drow district.

2. The Sharps is stable and isn't getting assassinated.

3. How can you be expected to make alliances when the other people that got elected with you are the ones you ran against and want the opposite of what you want for the district?
1. Well... see... the Melee Magthere is there, the Sorcere is there, the architecture is drowish, there is no mansion in Sharps. I think the DM team was thinking to provide an area for drow to be drow in the UD which was very thoughtful. So drow players will probably always think "Hey, Devils Table is for us." Still, I saw DM GrumpyCat say and what I'm saying, it's not a drow district if others claim it. It could be a goblin district if they really wanted.

2. Ahahahah, see it's due to the amazing RP that you think Sharps is stable and no assassinations are ever tried. And that you think it's completely done with just one character. Kudos to the Striefleader for making it look easy.

3. I don't think that anyone that lands on the council wants the opposite of the others for the district. I think that they all want the same thing. For Devils Table to be the supreme power in Andunor. That when the name 'Devils Table' is spoken it is with fear and the thought that no one better make a move against the district without expecting some nasty non-PVP consequence.

Drow make alliances all the time to gain power, even with other houses they want to see destroyed. Granted the alliance only lasts until one side or the other gets what they want but the alliance is still there.

I think what happened is that instead of looking at the outside forces attacking Devils Table/ Andunor there is too much looking at each other. Instead of going after the group freeing slaves and killing Devils Table citizens - too much time was taken trying to kill each other.

But... as Varrik says "I don't have a nug in this race." Just sharing my opinion.
DM in this thread has said its not drow.

Sharps can do what it is doing b/c they don't have oddball extra people in government sapping the treasury or unbanishing people every week.

If they all agreed on what was best for the DT then why are there so many unscheduled elections?

Also


. Drow make alliances all the time to gain power, even with other houses they want to see destroyed. Granted the alliance only lasts until one side or the other gets what they want but the alliance is still there.

I think what happened is that instead of looking at the outside forces attacking Devils Table/ Andunor there is too much looking at each other.
What? How can you say that drow should be making alliances to destroy rival drow, then instantly transition into criticism of drow for not focusing on external threats?
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