The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

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Rwby
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Rwby » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:46 pm

Well, sure... But they can like, do that anyway?

High level friends have always been able to power level low level friends, making them perfect max-gear/items for their levels, casting epic wards on them, tossing them some summon scroll friends, and set them off. You can easily solo all the writs if you've got an epic level buddy gearing and warding you.

I'm not sure Arelith's ever come up with a soultion to low level players getting megabumps from their epic pals. If a level 30 really wants to spend their time grinding a low level dungeon to give a low level PC some extra gold at the expense of their XP, like... Good for them? They could just as easily grind a high level dungeon and donate the gold to the low level PC, [Likely a higher amount of gold] and the low level PC could go do their writs as well as this zero risk free gold donation?

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Scurvy Cur » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 am

Nitro wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 pm
RandomL30: Hello! I heard there's a rare gem creature in the area, I was out here to see that.
LowbieGroup: We were just headed towards that region, Feel free to come with us!
I have never seen it play out like this. Either the lowbies asking the high level to leave, or more likely, leaving themselves because they don't want to get their XP sapped by a high level in a low level area and don't want to get killed if the high level is unstable.

If you wouldn't earn XP without a writ, why should you earn XP with a writ in the same situation? As for the gold, if that was enabled I see some situations where it could easily be abused for a 19 to take 3 quests, get a level 30 friend along and go get a whole bunch of gold for nearly 0 effort.
All of this is correct. In both of Twilly's examples, the high level guy is being insufferably rude, and everyone probably wishes he was gone, but hasn't come up with a good way to tell him IC to Snuggle a Bugbear off.


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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Xerah » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:10 am

People have vastly different ideas of what is considered rude. I never minded people tagging along as long as there is RP involved, but this writ change would alter my opinion.

Writs seems like they are necessary (since you have a limit per day) where getting exp before never felt the same way.
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Twily » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:43 am

Case2:
RandomL30: Ooh, You say there's massive gemstones there? I need to see that!
RandomL30: *heads towards the low level dungeon, encounters a group doing a writ there*
*encounters low level group*
RandomL30: Hello! I heard there's a rare gem creature in the area, I was out here to see that.
LowbieGroup: We were just headed towards that region, Feel free to come with us!
This exact thing was a situation I ended up in, and those I was traveling with genuinely didn't mind having me along, even mentioning that they would still get the XP from the writ so it's not a big deal.
It's in no way rude for a situation to play out like this if those involved genuinely don't mind, and were given a fair chance to say they do mind.

The writs being able to give them a notable amount of XP gave a reason to not mind that they'd get less XP from the kills, because at the end of the day they were still getting quite a bit of XP as well as some engaging in depth roleplay; so they were actually insisting that I do go with them even although I was on the fence.



The concern of high levels running lower levels through dungeons I can understand, but the system balanced itself out rather well in that.

If they do join a high level in a lower level dungeon they are getting less XP, so for the optimal grinder(aka, those who would want a high level to grind them through places), they'd rather not have the higher level there.

The lower level can't take writs far above their level range, so it's not possible for a L8 to go grab the BlackOrcs Fortress writ and to be carried through it by an L30 (and even if they could, the amount of XP gained from writs of that nature is only marginally better than writs such as the Goblin Fortress).
Risk vs. Reward, the black orc fortress would be suicide even with a carry, when compared to the grand total of about the same XP that they'd get from going through the goblin fortress or bullywugs with a small equal level group.

If the concern is the lower levels getting more gold: Higher levels give amazing gear and huge piles of gold to lower levels all the time; far more than the writ system was getting into their hands by my understanding, and all with no risk to the lower level.


In regards to L30s carrying L20s through a place such as the black orc fortress: In the past a regular group to that dungeon would include people anywhere between L20 and near 30s. A dungeon that previously accommodated that wider level range now encourages people to not travel with people who they otherwise would have, had they not had a writ to complete.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Ork » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:09 am

Scurvy Cur wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 am
the high level guy is being insufferably rude, and everyone probably wishes he was gone, but hasn't come up with a good way to tell him IC to Snuggle a Bugbear off.
Amen. However, if Twily is right - he can still shadow lower level parties even if they have a writ for the area. The party just won't achieve any progress on their writ.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Disciprine Come From Within » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:28 am

From a mechanical exploitation perspective, the changes to the writ system are very fair and logical. Higher levels really shouldn't be going through lower level dungeons with said lower levels if they can avoid it. If there are resources desired by the higher level at that location, it is better RP to pay someone who is already going there to deliver those materials rather than just speed hack their way through, get the resources and leave. I don't agree with the arguments about mentoring for the writ system either. I used to mentor lower levels with a higher level all the time and usually I took them somewhere WAY higher level for them but reasonably lower level for me to balance it out to a fair XP to fun ratio. The writs are a bonus and shouldn't be looked at in any way beyond that.

That being said, there is some argument to be made that the level spread for the cap in some of the writs are a bit silly, especially the higher level ones where you are more likely to organically find epic level characters. The Malarite Temple is a small example but so are all the dungeons in the Skull Crags and Dark Spires. That organic discovery and collaboration is easily messed with, turning it into the situation where you two don't go together because it hurts the lower level's bonus and the higher level is now basically going to look for something else to do... 4 out of 5 encounters. The 1 out of 5 both people don't care and find socialization is more fun than the stupid bonus and hang out anyway. But it does make it a bit sad that it does almost feel like a punishment in that regard and I think that aspect is what hurts things. That being said, I'm not sure what a fair trade off would be to keep the incentive what it is and at the same time not make higher level characters organically encountered in those areas quietly told to go away.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Durvayas » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:37 am

Twily wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:43 am
Case2:
RandomL30: Ooh, You say there's massive gemstones there? I need to see that!
RandomL30: *heads towards the low level dungeon, encounters a group doing a writ there*
*encounters low level group*
RandomL30: Hello! I heard there's a rare gem creature in the area, I was out here to see that.
LowbieGroup: We were just headed towards that region, Feel free to come with us!
This exact thing was a situation I ended up in, and those I was traveling with genuinely didn't mind having me along, even mentioning that they would still get the XP from the writ so it's not a big deal.
It's in no way rude for a situation to play out like this if those involved genuinely don't mind, and were given a fair chance to say they do mind.

The writs being able to give them a notable amount of XP gave a reason to not mind that they'd get less XP from the kills, because at the end of the day they were still getting quite a bit of XP as well as some engaging in depth roleplay; so they were actually insisting that I do go with them even although I was on the fence.
I've been on both sides of this scenario, and any time I was the lowbie, the main reason I never minded having the higher level PC along was because while I WAS getting less exp per kill, that would be made up for by the exp the quest granted afterwards, so it balanced out in the end. I could RP with a higher level PC, and do roleplay and such, without having to tell them to piss off so I could do the writ.

If I was doing the optimal thing and telling them to piss off anyways, I'd have all the exp from the kills AND the writ exp, but asking them to stay meant I was sacrificing exp and I was 100% okay with that, but only because I would still get exp. With the new change, I don't even get the choice to sacrifice half of the exp to bring along a higher level for the sake of RP. I lose all of it.

Of course I've got to figure out their level beforehand now otherwise if I deign to let them come along and RP with them, I get a flat minimum exp per kill AND can no longer complete the writ. I'm encouraged to not RP with them at all unless I'm in a town.

I'd rather have the choice to expand my RP and be inclusive at a price of suboptimal exp, rather than go back to the system where if I want any exp at all I have to be exclusive.
I only have so much time to play per night, and if I'm given the choice between getting 5 exp per kill OR completing a writ, I'm inclined now to skip on the additional roleplay and either solo or send OOC tells to figure out levels.
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Twily » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:19 am

Ork wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:09 am
However, if Twily is right - he can still shadow lower level parties even if they have a writ for the area. The party just won't achieve any progress on their writ.
What I was saying is that if a higher level meets a lower level in a low level area, AND if the low level group is given a reasonable chance of declining the higher levels participation, yet the group decides that they do not mind, then it is not rude for a higher level to be grouping with lower levels in a low level area.
It's dependent on the high level being there for an RP reason(not just lounging about a lowbie dungeon), the low level group that was in the area being aware that the person is a higher level, and deciding they do not mind; shadowing implies this isn't the case.
If a high level stealthily follows a low level group in a low level area without an important reason(ie, big DM event, reported underdarker sightings, etc) and ruins their trip on them, it's without a doubt very rude, especially so if the high level was asked to wait for a bit by the lower levels in the region.

Where the writ system as it was came into play, as Durvayas said, was when the lower levels are deciding whether or not they mind.

With writ system as it is now, the choice is: Gain some RP, Have to return later to complete the writ, lose nearly all XP from kills
With the writ system as it was: Gain some RP, Gain the XP/Gold from the writ completion, lose nearly all XP from kills.

Less people minded the latter over the former as they still gain something from the trip, and so it was more frequent under that system to see lower level groups encouraging higher levels to join them if RP was appropriate for such.
I've seen a lot of quality roleplay come out of this sort of meeting, including friendships, potential apprenticeships, and a more authentic feel to the trip with less focus put on the numbers.
Last edited by Twily on Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Seekeepeek » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:28 am

Hey!

Having recently made a new character in skal (spelling?) the snowy isle. i found the writs to be super helpful in figuring out were to go hunting at your level range rather then exploring and getting killed by wandering into areas way above your level.

Most often when i find superior characters in lower level areas, they are there because they can't handle the areas they are suppose to be in. That's what i can judge after seeing how terrible they are playing the game, so i tend to leave them alone cause i can't effort to babysit them given my limited resources as a low level. Often i feel like they just want to show of too. most of all... to be honest it ruins my fun so bad if an area is to easy and i don't get to take a swing at things cause a superior character is plowing down things. i don't really play this game to watch others play it, i want a piece of the action.

The conclusion is that i approve of this change and should i catch up level-wise with those characters i'll be happy to take them along on hunting trips.

Do keep in my this is just my humble opinion and happy gaming :)

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Shadowy Reality » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:45 am

A high level player shadowing a low level party was always a reality, even before writs.

I personally do not share the horror stories in this thread, the people I run into are level appropriate for the area. And even if they weren't I wouldn't have any problem calling them out ICly for trivializing a patrol if they didn't leave by their own choice.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Irongron » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:23 am

Every year I go away for 3 weeks, and invariably a thread like this pops up while i am not here to reply. It must be intentional!

Here is my brief reply: this has always been a thing, with xp rewards, with item crafting, even with citizenship. There are always mechanics to prevent low level characters benefiting from high level friends. Having to consider the level difference with potential party members has ALWAYS been a thing. RP server or no, Arelith is still a game.

Maybe some numbers need to be tweaked, I'm not at home to look, but immersion breaking? No more than this game is by its very design. Also this argument about us being an RP server, I recall the same point being made by a player a couple of years ago when they were upset that their indestructible familiar was removed.

Truth is we are not an RP server, we are an RPG server, and RPGs are always about challenge.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by R0GUE » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:23 am
Every year I go away for 3 weeks, and invariably a thread like this pops up while i am not here to reply. It must be intentional!

Here is my brief reply: this has always been a thing, with xp rewards, with item crafting, even with citizenship. There are always mechanics to prevent low level characters benefiting from high level friends. Having to consider the level difference with potential party members has ALWAYS been a thing. RP server or no, Arelith is still a game.

Maybe some numbers need to be tweaked, I'm not at home to look, but immersion breaking? No more than this game is by its very design. Also this argument about us being an RP server, I recall the same point being made by a player a couple of years ago when they were upset that their indestructible familiar was removed.

Truth is we are not an RP server, we are an RPG server, and RPGs are always about challenge.
I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.

In many cases for me before this change (and after) I was the lone lowbie in a group that highly outranked me and I was in real danger of dying if not careful. But I did it because I wanted to play with my friends.

And then I guess my only response to the part about the indestructible familiar is this isn't one player complaining, but quite a few of us giving what we feel is reasonable feedback.

But se la vie, if this is to be the new normal, I've said my peace, quite a few times by now. Hopefully the numbers will at least get tweaked, or people who prefer no-tells will be given some visual feedback to help them out. Compromise is good after all.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Nitro » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am

R0GUE wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am
I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.

In many cases for me before this change (and after) I was the lone lowbie in a group that highly outranked me and I was in real danger of dying if not careful. But I did it because I wanted to play with my friends.
If all you want to do is be able to hang out with your friends, you can do that. You just can't, in your words, benefit off your friends.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by In A Motionless Scene » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:31 pm

I meant to write a concise thing about this, but this really sums it up nicely:
Nitro wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am


If all you want to do is be able to hang out with your friends, you can do that. You just can't, in your words, benefit off your friends.
There's nothing about this change that breaks immersion other than your own conduct IG.
There's no reason not to hang out with friends between level 2 and 30.

You simply cannot make use of a realtively new boon system* that rewards* dealing with level approproiate content by bringing someone who is overlevelled.

* that people went without for more than a decade
* read: Rewards on top of your normal XP acrrual


I don't see why there should be a game mechanic that incentivises getting carried by high level characters in a D&D setting, which revolves a lot around challenge ratings. It should be either exp adjustment, or level limitation. Both ultimately have the same effect, meaning no, or 1, exp for writs you hand in after concluding them with higher-leveled characters.

Writ boons are all sugar, but we went on so long without them, I'm sure people will manage having to work with level appropriate content in a CR-based game.
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm

Nitro wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am
R0GUE wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am
I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.

In many cases for me before this change (and after) I was the lone lowbie in a group that highly outranked me and I was in real danger of dying if not careful. But I did it because I wanted to play with my friends.
If all you want to do is be able to hang out with your friends, you can do that. You just can't, in your words, benefit off your friends.
That's rather not true, if the friends are always out in the wilderness. You could still do it, but they'd likely kick you from the party because you prevent them from gaining writ experience.

All in all, yes, the numbers should be looked at more closely. Ideally, the change should go away, but I'm just one voice and I doubt it will go away for us many who are against this change.


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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by With The Sky Below My Feet » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:02 pm

If anything, these complaints show that writ XP should be decreased.

Writ XP should be a bonus; not the substantial part of your XP gain.

Normal XP gain is rightly regulated by XP adjustments based on character levels in a party.
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Cortex » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:15 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm
Nitro wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am
R0GUE wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am
I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.

In many cases for me before this change (and after) I was the lone lowbie in a group that highly outranked me and I was in real danger of dying if not careful. But I did it because I wanted to play with my friends.
If all you want to do is be able to hang out with your friends, you can do that. You just can't, in your words, benefit off your friends.
That's rather not true, if the friends are always out in the wilderness. You could still do it, but they'd likely kick you from the party because you prevent them from gaining writ experience.

All in all, yes, the numbers should be looked at more closely. Ideally, the change should go away, but I'm just one voice and I doubt it will go away for us many who are against this change.

If they're likely to kick you from the party over writs, they'd do the same without it.
:)

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Twily » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:37 pm

I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends, when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.

In many cases for me before this change (and after) I was the lone lowbie in a group that highly outranked me and I was in real danger of dying if not careful. But I did it because I wanted to play with my friends.

But se la vie, if this is to be the new normal, I've said my peace, quite a few times by now. Hopefully the numbers will at least get tweaked, or people who prefer no-tells will be given some visual feedback to help them out. Compromise is good after all.
This.

I did see a lot of great and genuine roleplay come from the writ system as it was, and none of that would have happened if this change were in place at the time.
If the change was put through due to just a small handful of players abusing the system, I feel they should be punished individually rather than this; a change that addresses a minor problem, emphasizes OOC focus on character level, emphasizes deciding who to roleplay with based on level, and directly attacks genuine roleplay.

If that's how it is now, then obviously nothing I say is going to change it and ce la vie.
Last edited by Twily on Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:14 pm

In A Motionless Scene wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:31 pm
I meant to write a concise thing about this, but this really sums it up nicely:
Nitro wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:48 am


If all you want to do is be able to hang out with your friends, you can do that. You just can't, in your words, benefit off your friends.
There's nothing about this change that breaks immersion other than your own conduct IG.
There's no reason not to hang out with friends between level 2 and 30.

I feel this isn't a realistic approach to the actual situation that has sparked many many pages of this thread at this point. It is awesome to be one of those players that doesn't care if you don't get any XP in your group as long as you get to hang with your friends, whether that's an IC sentiment or an OOC one (or both)! One of my characters frequently 'babysat' for people that were traveling unsafe areas if his presence wasn't objected to, or showed someone how to get somewhere, despite having nothing to gain from it.

However, it is unrealistic to expect that in a group of four players who gathered together to perform a writ, that none of them will care about the xp/writ award (otherwise they wouldn't bother gathering at all). This means that that fifth friend who might've been welcomed before the change now forces three other people who DO care about the reward to choose between interacting with them or completing the writ until the writ is done.

Before, the players would have finished the writ (and not cared if there was less experience/virtually none). Now they cannot finish the writ, and are forced to abandon the attempt or mechanically inconvenience their friends.


I agree that the ability to do what you were doing before hasn't changed, 100%. But the mechanical directive behind it has. I believe as was pointed out, that this is a game, and the game is clearly telling you not to be inclusive of that person no matter how much sense it makes because it sucks to rob other people of the ability to complete the task they grouped up to do.


I'm not saying full revert. I'm saying some babies got thrown out with the bathwater, and I really think that's the majority of what most people trying to get some tweaking done are concerned about. The idea that someone is being entitled because they don't want to be forced to choose between RP'ing with someone or ruining an entire group's singular goal (which has never before been mutually exclusive) seems a little bit of an overreaction to me.
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Rwby » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:25 pm

I am so greatful other people continue to put forward their opposition to this with eloquence.

I'm saddened by Irongron's response, mostly because it demonstrates a fundemental misunderstanding of the server on my part. I've always considered Arelith to be not just 'a' RP Server, but ~The~ RP server. That the beginning and end of everything we did here was to promote roleplaying first, and mechanics second.

Yes, we're built into an RPG Game, but I always believed that was us using the best tools available for the job and doing the best job we could out of them. We were always going to be part RPG because Neverwinter Nights is an RPG game, but we use that to enable a fuller, immersive, roleplaying persistant world.

Changes like this are obviously very jarring to me, because we're moving ~away~ from an RP server, and back towards an RPG. [And has been mentioned in various threads, infact specifically an MMO.] And that isn't what I personally want for, or from Arelith.

The development team obviously have a different vision than I do, and it's their server. Ultimately, while I object most strenously to this change, it fits their vision. It makes us less RP, and more game. If that's where we're going, then...
There's not much more to say.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Twily » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:42 am

Rwby wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:25 pm
I am so greatful other people continue to put forward their opposition to this with eloquence.

I'm saddened by Irongron's response, mostly because it demonstrates a fundemental misunderstanding of the server on my part. I've always considered Arelith to be not just 'a' RP Server, but ~The~ RP server. That the beginning and end of everything we did here was to promote roleplaying first, and mechanics second.

Yes, we're built into an RPG Game, but I always believed that was us using the best tools available for the job and doing the best job we could out of them. We were always going to be part RPG because Neverwinter Nights is an RPG game, but we use that to enable a fuller, immersive, roleplaying persistant world.

Changes like this are obviously very jarring to me, because we're moving ~away~ from an RP server, and back towards an RPG. [And has been mentioned in various threads, infact specifically an MMO.] And that isn't what I personally want for, or from Arelith.

The development team obviously have a different vision than I do, and it's their server. Ultimately, while I object most strenously to this change, it fits their vision. It makes us less RP, and more game. If that's where we're going, then...
There's not much more to say.
This also fits my view rather eloquently.

This isn't to say that I think there should be no penalty for a low level to travel with a higher level though(and I don't think that's what Rwby is saying either).
As far as XP gain goes, grouping with people of the same level should always be the most rewarding option, I just feel it shouldn't be the only option.

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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Jagel » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:28 am

R0GUE wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am
I feel like many of you really think the worst of us and that all we want to do is benefit off our friends when all we really want is to be able play and hang out with our friends.
You could argue it’s the opposite: trusting the playerbase to behave IC in ways that make sense to their character even if it means a non-optimal party and xp gain. When I joined here dungeoning was the only way to gain xp save for the odd DM reward. If there was a six lvls or more difference in the party noone got any xp. Standing around rp’ing yielded no xp and we still did it. It is a huuuge step up that we now have rp bonus, adventure xp and writs but even with the current limits we have so many reasons to explore and interact in fun ways instead of circlegrinding.

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MissEvelyn
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:41 am

Rwby wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:25 pm
I am so greatful other people continue to put forward their opposition to this with eloquence.

I'm saddened by Irongron's response, mostly because it demonstrates a fundemental misunderstanding of the server on my part. I've always considered Arelith to be not just 'a' RP Server, but ~The~ RP server. That the beginning and end of everything we did here was to promote roleplaying first, and mechanics second.

Yes, we're built into an RPG Game, but I always believed that was us using the best tools available for the job and doing the best job we could out of them. We were always going to be part RPG because Neverwinter Nights is an RPG game, but we use that to enable a fuller, immersive, roleplaying persistant world.

Changes like this are obviously very jarring to me, because we're moving ~away~ from an RP server, and back towards an RPG. [And has been mentioned in various threads, infact specifically an MMO.] And that isn't what I personally want for, or from Arelith.

The development team obviously have a different vision than I do, and it's their server. Ultimately, while I object most strenously to this change, it fits their vision. It makes us less RP, and more game. If that's where we're going, then...
There's not much more to say.
I couldn't have articulated this better myself.


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Ork
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Ork » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:57 am

I recall years ago when the devs at the time we're attempting to incentive adventuring because a number of players were more interested in the social aspect of Arelith. As a 12+ year veteran of Arelith, Arelith has always been more focused around adventuring and challenge. Others may be focused on the social aspect, but that has always taken a backseat to the RPG elements. Scroll through the updates (more dungeons, changed monsters, changed spells, new classes, updated locations, etc.) for just an example.

I think by now a lot of posters have said a lot of things & none seem to be changing their perspectives. I am almost disappointed seeing as the writ system has always felt to me as a privilege & gift. I recall the way it was prior to adventure xp & writs, and I have felt those in opposition to this change come across as entitled.

XP is low in the company of higher level characters.
XP is better in the company of same level characters.

These are the elements we have always had, and this change insures that it is true even for writs.

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Dunshine
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Re: The Current Writ Limitations Break Immersion

Post by Dunshine » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:54 am

Just so you all know, Irongron is on a holiday currently and doesn't/shouldn't take time to read through all these posts and write up a longer response than he did. But because of the short response it may have come across more blunt then he would normally be. Can't speak for him obviously, but just wanted to point that out.

My view on the matter is that I'm agreeing with the basic need of limiting the writ system in some way to prevent high levels helping low levels cruise through their quests repeatedly. But I'm not too fond about the current way it's handled, I think there are alternatives that would work better, and we have been discussing alternatives in the team.

So don't think this feedback is ignored. YCE already indicated he's open to suggestions in here, and Irongron also indicated there may be tweaks.

So the best course of action here, is posting actual alternatives, and not going back and forth about why it should/shouldn't be changed/removed.

Some things we're already considering:
- Limiting the qty of daily writs when PCs get help from higher levels. This means you can finish a writ with even 10 level 30's accompanying you, without any issue and for the full reward, but the NPC would then either have a higher time-out before he gives you new ones, or gives you less new ones for a while.
- Another idea that came up would be to limit the XP/Gold reward based on the party level used to accomplish the writ.

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