The Cordorian Blight ~

[sad_zav]

these events have been a lot of fun for me

while i can understand the whole "sitting around waiting for some other, 'more important people' to fix it" sentiment, i don't think it's applicable to this series of events; in fact, i think adopting this line of thinking is what limited the people upset with this event in the first place.

from my experience with it, it was simply a matter of being in the right place at the right time. almost (not all, admittedly) all of my involvement over the past month or two with this was purely coincidental.

also, this notion that everything can be solved with a flick of the wrist from our powerful PCs (oh, everyone's dead? just rez them all! sick? grestos galore!) is actually very damaging as far as the server's narrative goes. there was a sense of urgency with these events specifically because they couldn't be flippantly fixed.

the first time around, i was still able to help despite the fact i stumbled upon 0 DM events and had 0 personal DM interaction. i think some of the people upset here simply threw up their hands when gresto didn't work and didn't try to get more invested after that. it took some effort, but i managed to make a dent and i got a lot of RP out of it.

to quote Huschpfusch:

Nah, if you can`t uggabugga-instant-cure something, it just means your cleric has to find out what his god´s enemies have been doing to immunize their pathogenic creations to your current healing-powers. Divinity in D&D settings comes in binary form, which means if there`s a god of X there is sure to be a god Y being the exact opposite of X. So there is gods who grant divine healing power you be sure there`s gods granting plague-power. Evolution and adaption - just like in real-life when bacteria grow resistance against certain medication and ppl in the medical field have to do some research... and fast.

i know what i'm saying may feel targeted and harsh, but really, it's just as pointed and honest as what some people have sent chiliad's way.

[JediMindTrix]

I just recommend that DM's don't run events that include epics. It's very difficult to challenge them without making them feel like they've lost agency.

[Dean]

I think excluding people because they are epics is counterproductive to any story.

[JediMindTrix]

It's not worth the pandora's box. Really. It's not. You want a quest that involves outside the box thinking or solutions? Lowbies are forced into it. Epics can "spam G Resto" and justly get irritated when it doesn't work. That mindset is pervasive. For every person that enjoys that kind of quest there seem to be three who prefer the brute force mechanical approach.

Not to mention giving lowbies the spotlight feels good (For them) and might help make a character feel like it matters to a new player. Epics are already established.

also, this notion that everything can be solved with a flick of the wrist from our powerful PCs (oh, everyone's dead? just rez them all! sick? grestos galore!) is actually very damaging as far as the server's narrative goes. there was a sense of urgency with these events specifically because they couldn't be flippantly fixed.

Pretty much all of this.

[sad_zav]

Or they could not

[Rwby]

I'm not sure JMT is 100% accurate, but he/she/they/it/them are certainly in the right ballpark. It's hard to challenge epics in Arelith, not least because a flawlessly built level 30 can mindlessly solo most content on the server, and so can effortlessly destroy most of the mobs a DM can spawn. That means in DM events, you can end up with a group of half a dozen people with one person going 'Psh, threat to the Island/Cordor/village/these dozen people?! Hardly, I've been to hell for breakfast today and can slay them all singlehandedly. Mear goblins I say!' While the other five people just look on and shrug.

This is just as true with a badly built level 30 stumbling into an event for a party of level 10's. What's that? Necromancer kill your friend and is exorting you to help him with his evil ritual or he'll turn your friend into a corpse? Well I've cast ressurection on your friend and imploded the Necromancer. Next!

DMing, traditionally, in PnP is for a comprable party of which the DM is well aware of their capabilities ahead of time, and has full control of the server. Arelith is a very different enviroment and that can be super hard to deal with.


I also think [personal view] that players assume because they're level 30, they're LEVEL 30. Ie, that because they're level 30 in Arelith, they have all the capabilities and powers of a real level 30 DnD character in the setting. That really would be setting destroying, there'd be more high epics in Arelith than half of Faerun! Doing such menial jobs as wood cutting, guarding the walls of cities, and chasing down rogue Fey. Everyone in Arelith can't be a demi-god slaying level of ultimate power, or the whole island becomes very silly quickly.

It is why I [Tangent warning] am deeply against the casual existance of Celestia, The 9 Hells, and the Abyss in Arelith, and why I personally fought so hard to have dragons removed from the server and placed in the hand of the DMs for events only. For example, the other day [And with no disrespect for the player, who did their best to provide a lot of fun] a party of PCs went to investigate the Cordor crypts for clues to the above plague. A PC stopped by to help, who'd just litterally come from crusading against Devils _in hell_, to stop by the walk through the crypts. It's hard to be afraid of anything IC when someone that can literally visit hell for a quick drink can stop by and help squish the level 4 cultists when everything goes wrong.

The best stories are those told about near-human characters, with weaknesses and limits, who have to rely on teamwork and each other to defeat a problem. Arelith desends rapidly into bad marvel territories on occasion with teams of invincible warriors who can defeat legions of deamons in the Abyss [and who indeed, might casually live their] stopping by to oppose each and every evil that briefly gabs their attention - And whom, in the process make all the small people feel like they can't contribute anything meaningful to the story. This stuff makes it really hard to tell compelling stories, and as such makes the DMs life easier.

Would Arelith really be such a bad place if Celestia/The Hells/The Abyss were made inaccessable, and replaced with challenging dungeons for level 30's with a much more mortal and less superhero bent, and journies to such places were made rare and special by being event type things only?

[sad_zav]

That doesn't really change the mechanical power level of 30s.

Honestly, with the situation you presented, I think more falls on the epic player that intervened than the DMs. A lot of times, that guy just wants to be impressive and cool and badass. They're manhandling the spotlight.

[Huschpfusch]

Oh, and personally I just can´t wait for the first real multi-resistant-epidemic. People in the medical field are having sooo much fun with MRSA already.

My god I can only imagine the boredem already just thinking about it.

I was talking about real-life there. So is this a misunderstanding or do you really think the prospect of a multi-resistant-pathogene causing an epidemic/pandemic in real-life is boring? <.<"

[Atlantahammy]

I mostly agree with what the others are saying, why I like a lot of Avalon Soul's interactions with the tower and the NPC's! While their small events, they do feel personalize to the people there, and they can join in. (Part of why I am also hoping for them for a small DM even I requests <xD)

(Don't really like the idea of excluding level 30's cause hey you leveled to be able to do stuff! now you can't do that stuff... and Personally as a level 30 wizard, i'm only able to do so much, like be a lore book.. Though I am still proud that one event with Always This late, with Astra's bluff... FIRST TIME I SUCCEEDED IN ANYTHING xD)

[thingsicantdo]

alright, i'm going to pick apart the plague macguffin (because that's what it usually is. "plague" makes an awful plot, but an adequate way to push characters towards a real plot).

Plague in DnD: first off, it's the same macguffin in NWN chapter 1 (with the actual plot being "find the cures which have inexplicitly been scattered to four of the five districts of the city. oh, and the central hub is conveniently where you turn in your quests"). Now, as people have mentioned, it's cheesy to have gres not fix it. why the hell shouldn't it? it's a disease. cure disease on its own should work unless it's magical.

but, here's the thing. if it were curable through gres or cure disease, it wouldn't be a plague. it would be some weird disease that gets axed in a few hours by some cleric, and forgotten by most in a few more (except for "hey, bob! remember that time you had slugs coming out of your nose and it was hard to breathe? good times!"). a plague setting has to be something that can't be cured with [common] magic, because we start off written into a corner by the setting. one way out is cheese.

ultimately, an inexplicitly incurable plague serves to push the characters towards a plot (fetch this/these object(s), or retrieve this person from a far away land because they're the only one who can fix it, for example). or, it could be a setting shift, if it's not meant to be cured, since it can easily be used to wipe out a large population center that give the main characters too easy of a time.

now, it has some good points and bad points. a good point is that it's a slow acting "end of the world" scenario (EotW doesn't actually have to end the world. it just has to end the world as we know it. wiping out the major city is 'good enough' for that purpose). We can't gauge how long it'll take, but we can push the characters and inspire a sense of urgency with a few deaths. like watching an hour glass deplete, but the top half is opaque, we only know that we have a time limit. this allows the storyteller to give the characters as much time as is needed, without the audience (in this case, the characters are dual roles with the audience) knowing how much or little leeway is given to them.

the bad point is, in this case, is how far reaching it is, while simultaneously not allowing a lot of interaction. it's a disease. you can't fight it. you can't reason with it. you can [seemingly] randomly contract it, but there's no way to really do anything interesting with it. This is mitigatable with a good plot. "gather the ingredients for the cure!" works. It could even be something that involves a lot of people since cordor is a big place and they'll need lots of cure. of course, this requires certain events to transpire, and then role players to actually share the spotlight... that's not a bet i'd put money on, personally, but i'm a bit jaded after doing some "big events" that ended up being server wide, but focused on the same handful of people, anyway.

so, this could still be good. i'm curious how Chiliad handles it, but i won't find out unless it's on the forums. when i see a DM event, i run (not walk) the other way. let other people get the attention instead.

though i do want to note the particular silliness of people who have super-ailments that can't be cured. it's cringy at best. annoying at worst. but i did have a hell of a laugh when i saw a crowd around some mellodramatic character lying on the streets of cordor with 5+ others fawning over her and blocking the roads. some high level cleric got sick of it and cast gres on her and i started laughing. apparently she got a ton of angry tells after that for "ruining the RP." Still, you do you, and have fun

EDIT: i want to apologize specifically to DM Chiliad. i'm mean, and he didn't deserve it. Sorry

[sad_zav]

Taking a dump on something and tagging on "you do you, and have fun!" doesn't really make it seem much nicer.

Neither does saying something is bad because it exists, or silly because you don't like it.

I also don't feel like you've participated much in this event, because spotlights were shared and several people did get involved. I hope your post isn't based on supposition.

[thingsicantdo]

Taking a dump on something and tagging on "you do you, and have fun!" doesn't really make it seem much nicer.

Neither does saying something is bad because it exists, or silly because you don't like it.

I also don't feel like you've participated much in this event, because spotlights were shared and several people did get involved. I hope your post isn't based on supposition.

for the first two parts, no. it's not intended to be nice. i don't like it, and the only enjoyment i've ever gotten out of someone's attention fishing has been moments where it got ruined (though i don't want to go out of the way to to it myself. like i said, "you do you.") and the last part, again, no. i specifically said as much.

i'm sorry you feel like everybody has to like everything, or that something that actually causes an inconvenience to others (blocking streets in cordor) has to be enjoyed by all or unmentioned. turns out, we can have negative opinions about things. doesn't mean we can't all have fun together, in our own ways

[Rwby]

Taking a dump on something and tagging on "you do you, and have fun!" doesn't really make it seem much nicer.

Neither does saying something is bad because it exists, or silly because you don't like it.

I also don't feel like you've participated much in this event, because spotlights were shared and several people did get involved. I hope your post isn't based on supposition.

for the first two parts, no. it's not intended to be nice.

Rule one is be nice. This includes the forum.

[thingsicantdo]

this obviously isn't the context, however. let's get back on topic though

[The GrumpyCat]

Just one important thing for people to remember, in this feedback.

a) We're volunteers
b) We have Real Lives too.

Don't get me wrong, when I run an event I'll try and be around as often as possible, I'll try and be receptive to peoples characters, ect. But franky I don't have time to quit my other leasure activities/family/job/chores/physical health so I can sit in a computer char for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. DMs lead lives too. We do what we do to give back to the community and, also yes, to give back.

And yes, whilst feedback is encouraged- and whilst yes, for the most part this thread has been just fine, understand that we do this primarlay because it's fun.

Whilst there are certainly Bad things to do as a DM, keep in mind that there is also always a matter of personal taste involved. Everyone will have different tastes in events. What you may have found annoying, another person may have found a real delight to be involved in.

And don't doubt that we've a LOT of factors to consider when DMing. Let me drop a few.

*How to make it challenging for a vareity of levels, or to tailor it so only a set number of players/levels can get involved.
*How to work within the parameters avaiable to us in server regulations/rules (e.g. no perminent server changes)
*How to make the story both interactive, but also ongoing. (taking into account peoples classes/levels/abilities is fine. But no dm quest should be fixable within two secons by someone clicking the 'hellball' button.)
*How to dynamicaly include a vareity of people.
*How to balence any awards/penalties in a manner that both shows consequence ,without being disproportinatly rewarding/punishing.
*How to take something in an origional and fun manner.
*How to take into account the Game world and NPCs and reactions there of.
*Time needed to set up, and how long you plan to run it for.

There's a lot to take into account, and that might mean that some events won't feel like they're 'for you.' That's just the way it goes. We will try and do a nice varity of things, but vareity is the key.

I'm sure there's more things ot consider, but this is just a small snapshot of the stuff that must

[MissEvelyn]

Practically everything Wytchee said is on point.

Also, a lot of times the same groups are involved because they want to be involved. My advice:

1: Try things! Get involved. Don't be afraid of failure.

2: If you do know of events, spread the light around, don't hog the knowledge, give others a chance to have a small spot.

I think the issue with this that many of us may be struggling with is that we often have to go way out of character to participate. If my character wouldn't participate in the first place without a DM, is it really believable that she would when a DM comes around and starts the event?
That is definitely a case-by-case thing, but with plague events I can with certainty say that none of my evil and neutral characters would participate. They'd rather stay away and wait it out. The evil ones might use the distraction to their advantage, but that's about it. As for the good ones, they'd try to find a way to help, and then, as it's been mentioned before, be exasperated over the fact that nothing works.

I do like advice # 2, definitely something to keep in mind when participating in an event =)

With both previous responses from our team in mind, a more general question: What sort of stories would you possible like to see in the future?

More Titania events! The small ones that involve smaller groups and a stranded merchant, for example. You, Titania, are brilliant at pulling those random and extremely believable events <3

[DM Chiliad]

This has all been a lot of thought provoking feedback! Its really nice to get an outside opinion from the players who both were, and were not involved. Theres a lot of perspective here I didnt consider while I was drafting the npcs and monsters.

I'll keep all this in consideration *when I run another event.

I have to admit its a little shocking to recieve such opinionated feelings from players who didnt make an attempt to get involved. And definitely a little hurtful. Ill take the critcism to heart and try to find a compromise between spoon feeding and dangling plot hooks in the open sea.

[cptcuddlepants]

But no dm quest should be fixable within two secons by someone clicking the 'hellball' button.

On a more serious note: I think there's some responsibility on the players in regards to getting other PCs involved - it's not entirely on the DMs here.

Sure, a level 30 weaponmaster could clear out a bunch of bandits on the road singlehandedly, but that doesn't get others involved. Now if that level 30 weaponmaster goes, "Okay, you look sneaky, I want you to scout their numbers and report back to me, in the meanwhile, you and you over there, go through the city and recruit some additional help, once our scout comes back we'll form up and see if we can get these bandits to surrender before we kill them." That results in more people involved.

Or maybe the weaponmaster in question could work something out with the DM running the event, and he winds up held hostage by the bandits, and a bunch of low level people have to find a way to get him back!

Examples aside, inclusiveness is a two-way street. Yes, players who want to get involved do need to reach out, but the players who are already involved need to pull them in, especially considering how many things a DM probably has to keep an eye on while running events.

[Wytchee]

I have to admit its a little shocking to recieve such opinionated feelings from players who didnt make an attempt to get involved. And definitely a little hurtful. Ill take the critcism to heart and try to find a compromise between spoon feeding and dangling plot hooks in the open sea.

I really hope my posts did not come off this way. I was trying to help! D:

[thingsicantdo]

no, that was definitely me. i was more harsh than i intended to sound. i'll be editing soon

[Lunargent]

Hey guys try and be nice because DMs are people too

TURN UP THE HEAT BOYS!

It's like a page out of the "How to Burn Out DMs and Make Them Stop Running Events" playbook.

[Dean]

I have to admit its a little shocking to recieve such opinionated feelings from players who didnt make an attempt to get involved.

This sums up a good portion of this thread. As someone who participated in the latest two of the events I have seen the sharing of spotlight and an all around enjoyable experience from myself and others. This has kind of come out of left field by people that did not participate. This is just kind of rude grandstanding.

I have to admit its a little shocking to recieve such opinionated There's a small number of epics who tend to magically show up the instant a DM event starts, which suggests some OOC coordination that is... well, not conducive to a healthy and functioning roleplay server. They tend to have a lot of IC sway, too.

Perhaps in other events, the majority of characters in the event that I noticed were new, with exception of Snow, Buppi, and Amadeo (Who arrived towards the end of the whole roleplay.) Snow and Buppi also had previous connections to the story due to the First Plague. Beyond that, the Frostblades that were there, Peregrine, Roy, Alastriona, Escott, and most everyone else were new characters. And a few of the newer characters were the ones given the spotlight.

These assumptions are pretty rude, you're criticizing something that did not happen. Perhaps these things happen in other events, but I participated in this one.

It's like a page out of the "How to Burn Out DMs and Make Them Stop Running Events" playbook.

[Ecstatic]

Alright, fam.

I appreciate that we're self-moderating this thread to some extent, but I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that criticism is at its best and most effective when it stays away from things that might be perceived as ad hominem attacks on other people's behavior. I wholeheartedly endorse criticism that gets to the heart of an issue, e.g.: "I think the way these kinds of events are structured detracts from player agency/server atmosphere/fun for reasons A/B/C".

When criticism starts verging into lowkey accusations that other players or DMs are engaged in some sort of misconduct, it's a lot less great.

Please keep the feedback clean and helpful. Thanks.

[Wytchee]

Hey guys try and be nice because DMs are people too

TURN UP THE HEAT BOYS!

It's like a page out of the "How to Burn Out DMs and Make Them Stop Running Events" playbook.

The DMs asked for feedback and most of ours was very constructive and not at all confrontational.

If you have any suggestions, here's the place to share them.

[Vodka Musician]

Even though I haven’t been involved with this second plague plot it makes me happy to see things going on in the world and hearing about it ig (especially if you had a contributing factor in it occurring ) I say keep it up and do plots that interest you DMs. You’re here to have fun just the same as the player characters.

The unsubstantiated claims of players arriving through ooc means is ridiculous and unnecessary. From my experience players and DMs alike have largely been inclusive in these things.