"A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by JediMindTrix » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:21 pm

Gnarh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:23 am
What nearly tanked Arelith was toxic players with pathological sense of entitlement
You sound like a DM's alt-account.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:46 pm

Mithreas wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am
So - disagree where you feel you want to, sure. Feedback is valuable. But bear in mind that the single most important resource Arelith has is the emotional strength of its leadership team and their willingness to keep on keeping on - and be calm and respectful in your feedback.
I just want to add, I totally agree with this sentiment, and believe me I even get where the Devs are coming from on this one. This change is Basic Game Design 101. Every Cookie Cutter MMO in the entire world has a level restriction like this for parties. The dev who implemented this system is not wrong from a design choice standpoint.

But, and remember I am only providing feedback here, one of the really cool things about Arelith is that it tends to chuck the rules in order to promote a RP-friendly environment, more so than any other game experience I've encountered. I think that is all some of us are arguing for, especially if you also have limited time to play and thus can't wait around for that perfect opportunity to find a party.

So take that for what it's worth, kudos to the Devs for trying to improve game balance, but I just implore you to also listen to your player base, and I think most of us would prefer a compromise of some sort. I don't know how easy it would be to implement SockYeti's suggestion where you scale the writ xp earned based on level of the highest party member, but I would be a-ok with that.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by CaptainLocke » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:48 pm

If this is going to stay a thing, can we add the max level of a writ to the description of the writ(s) itself? There's no good way to tell if you're 3+ levels out of the max writ level range unless you know the writs by heart. (I do not)

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:01 pm

CaptainLocke wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:48 pm
If this is going to stay a thing, can we add the max level of a writ to the description of the writ(s) itself? There's no good way to tell if you're 3+ levels out of the max writ level range unless you know the writs by heart. (I do not)
We'll be looking into making the writ level range more transparent.
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by CaptainLocke » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:07 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:01 pm
CaptainLocke wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:48 pm
If this is going to stay a thing, can we add the max level of a writ to the description of the writ(s) itself? There's no good way to tell if you're 3+ levels out of the max writ level range unless you know the writs by heart. (I do not)
We'll be looking into making the writ level range more transparent.
Wonderful, thank you very much.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Lunargent » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:26 pm

I play Arelith with my husband whenever I am able. We have a child together, so our time is often limited during the daytime hours and often interrupted by baby things. Even despite this, we've been able to get some characters decently leveled because we always have one another as farmin' buddies. However, I have to really disagree with this design choice.

I stay at home with the baby, so I have time to play Arelith while the baby is asleep (and he is at work) or otherwise being watched at a class or her grandmother while my husband is at work. Simply put, I get more playtime with him. Usually I would not actively farm, but still managed to outlevel him just by roleplaying or the occasional outing with someone I met IC. Even by 3+ levels, at times, especially when our characters had differing ECL or had adv. mode on or off. I find this change to be very discouraging for this reason, especially since I have a new character in the works. With this change, I will not be able to play this new character very much while he is gone, for fear of creating an XP disparity that would interfere with our ability to do writs together.

One of the main reasons we came back to the server after 6+ years was because of how much easier it was to level compared to the days of endless circlegrind. Now, the experience has been complicated by this, and I find it disheartening.

Please reconsider, and thank you for reading.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 pm

To avoid level disparities with a character that you specifically want to go on adventures with, holding on the level-up screen and using -losexp are both options.

Again, the restriction is not on the level difference between characters, but on party members with 3 levels over a quest's max level. Even characters up to six levels apart can share most writs.
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:42 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 pm
Again, the restriction is not on the level difference between characters, but on party members with 3 levels over a quest's max level. Even characters up to six levels apart can share most writs.
There are five pages in this thread filled with specific examples where, while it is understood that this is the intention, people who are grazing each other's level range, who play here with each other, are not receiving the same mechanical incentives to role-play with another person as they would if they just solo-ran a quest.

My understanding of the writs is that they were actually made to give some love to people with off-hours and odd play-times to improve their ability to solo, so I understand where this is a case of objective achieved.

However; I feel that objective could be achieved without "punishing" those grouping up. The fact that the level spread is more generous than dungeons doesn't appear to be the issue. I've never done a writ, but it sounds to me like you flat-out can't make progress on a writ if person X is in your party. Given the PvP settings of the server and the modifications to some of the spells, it is therefore impractical to suggest that person simply drop party as a result- and not being in a party makes it harder to know when you have to step in to save someone from dying.

Would it be possible to make it so the higher level's kills don't count, but they can still be a part of the party? I've definitely seen quest-instances where only the person landing the kill got the reward, but I don't know if it's possible to exclude only specific people in the party.
yellowcateyes wrote:To avoid level disparities with a character that you specifically want to go on adventures with, holding on the level-up screen and using -losexp are both options.
I understand that this is a new cookie we did fine without before. However, the cookie exists now, and everyone can see it and smell it. This suggestion is tantamount to telling these players they have to have ipecac in their cookie if they want to share it with someone.
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Lunargent » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:29 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 pm
To avoid level disparities with a character that you specifically want to go on adventures with, holding on the level-up screen and using -losexp are both options.
I wholeheartedly disagree that missing out on exp by holding a level or deleveling are even remotely valid options to fix this situation, as you shouldn't have to lose xp progress just to play with your friends.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:52 pm

Lunargent wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:29 pm
yellowcateyes wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 pm
To avoid level disparities with a character that you specifically want to go on adventures with, holding on the level-up screen and using -losexp are both options.
I wholeheartedly disagree that missing out on exp by holding a level or deleveling are even remotely valid options to fix this situation, as you shouldn't have to lose xp progress just to play with your friends.
Agreed. It's rather absurd that if we want to play with our friends, we can either get no reward at all from dungeoneering or we have to delevel ourselves.

This change is backwards and the large feedback alone provided here does my statement justice.
Cortex wrote:This does not encourage solo play so much as even leveled parties. Asking people's level is also an ancient thing, and has been done ever since I can remember, and perhaps more frequently than now, for the purposes of leveling in a dungeon. Not to mention, you shouldn't run into people too far above your level in appropriate level dungeons (if you run into someone three levels above you in a pre-20 level dungeon, something's probably off, since very few dungeons in that range scale to epics).
It does encourage solo play, as you'll eventually give up finding someone your own level if you play at odd timezones or if no one your level is around. Several people have already reported these issues in this very thread.
Not to mention, not everyone runs on builds that can take on the highest dungeons for their levels, therefore it's very possible to run into someone three levels above or below you in a dungeon.

Furthermore, it's very counter-intuitive to meet another party that's not in your level range, as you're now racing to get the dungeon done before them. This change punishes players, there is absolutely no other way around that fact. And it's meaningless in this instance.

Also, having to inquire levels out of character has not and should never be a requirement to play on here. While it's fairly easy for a character to announce that they're much stronger than these dungeons nearby, it's much more difficult to have to jump around IC interaction to find out if the character you want to take with you is 3 levels higher/lower than you or not.


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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:59 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 pm
To avoid level disparities with a character that you specifically want to go on adventures with, holding on the level-up screen and using -losexp are both options.

Again, the restriction is not on the level difference between characters, but on party members with 3 levels over a quest's max level. Even characters up to six levels apart can share most writs.
Forcing PCs to track the OOC mechanic of writ levels alongside the mechanic of character levels, two mechanics which don't always align based on what writs you have and where you're finding parties, serves only to force people to go OOC to continue to carry on with basic game functions in order to have standard progression. Telling them to hold levels or do -losexp isn't a solution IMO.

Finding out that it was reduced even further from 6 to 3 levels is a real headscratcher. My sides are in orbit like Cortex's but probably for the opposite reason.

Do the Devs/DMs actually have hard stats on how many writs were being completed by Notorious Epics? This genuinely feels like it was solving a problem that didn't exist.

If I did want to consider a solution to this problem, I would instead have gone with the route of: If a PC is level 21 (and therefore can no longer ACCEPT writs) then they cannot aid in a writ's completion, as they're no longer a part of the Registrar's documents and paperwork. But as long as the PC is able to take writs, they are able to help complete writs. Beyond that is injecting OOC mechanics for very little reason.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Sockss » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:17 pm

The more people's entitlement grows and argue against the change on this thread, the more I think this is not about RP.

RP hasn't changed, just the mechanical benefit.
TimeAdept wrote: But as long as the PC is able to take writs, they are able to help complete writs. Beyond that is injecting OOC mechanics for very little reason.
There's a clear reason here and it revolves around an integral game mechanic, of XP.

XP is gained loosely based on difficulty. Handing out XP for mundane tasks shouldn't happen. Questing is mundane if you have someone breezing through content for you.

Contrary to some peoples opinions here, XP isn't handed out from watching people do things. Otherwise you'd have some heavily levelled Cordorian Citizen arena fans, etc.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 pm

Sockss wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:17 pm
Handing out XP for mundane tasks shouldn't happen. Questing is mundane if you have someone breezing through content for you.
I'm not sure mundane-ness of the task is really a qualifier for XP. Almost every game, including Arelith begins with you doing a quest like delivering packages and/or killing rats for XP. How much more mundane can you get?

Instead, I think you are basically saying "you shouldn't get XP unless you can handle it alone". Which is what those of us saying this is a move to help out solo players are saying.

I've pointed out in earlier posts that bards, rogues, clerics, and various other classes and builds are much better off aiding other adventurers than trying to solo content themselves. They can even aid when there are those in the party are much higher level than them. Healing is healing, it is a good contribution regardless of PC level. The skill to disable a trap is a benefit to many parties with higher level members. In these cases you are not just being power leveled by a high level PC, you are actively contributing to the success of the venture.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:25 pm

R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 pm
I'm not sure mundane-ness of the task is really a qualifier for XP. Almost every game, including Arelith begins with you doing a quest like delivering packages and/or killing rats for XP. How much more mundane can you get?
The Speedy "quest" is more of an introduction to newer players than anything else(which is now possibly outdated by Skal). The fact it gives EXP is just a relic that's been around for 10 years ago, and shouldn't be used to reflect the rest of the server.
Instead, I think you are basically saying "you shouldn't get XP unless you can handle it alone". Which is what those of us saying this is a move to help out solo players are saying.
My current character has really bad soloing abilities, but I don't struggle with solo quests if I don't find someone to do them with. There are very easy quests in all level ranges, including ones that just have you transition to some areas (very easy writs that have been mostly ignored in this whole thread...). A harder quest that takes a party (or in some cases a more solo capable character) will obviously also have a better reward.
I've pointed out in earlier posts that bards, rogues, clerics, and various other classes and builds are much better off aiding other adventurers than trying to solo content themselves. They can even aid when there are those in the party are much higher level than them. Healing is healing, it is a good contribution regardless of PC level. The skill to disable a trap is a benefit to many parties with higher level members. In these cases you are not just being power leveled by a high level PC, you are actively contributing to the success of the venture.
Bards and clerics are both potent solo classes, that aside... If they're aiding a higher level, like you imply, it is also implied this is in a region where the higher level is facing suitable challenge and likely a place the lower level doesn't even have writ access to yet. If the higher level character is just breezing through and could do just fine without a healer or a rogue, then it's not the low level assisting the high level in completing a dungeon, but likely a high level assisting a low level in a quest/writ and not powerleveling anyone.
Last edited by Cortex on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:)

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Sockss » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:26 pm

R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 pm
I'm not sure mundane-ness of the task is really a qualifier for XP. Almost every game, including Arelith begins with you doing a quest like delivering packages and/or killing rats for XP. How much more mundane can you get?
The package delivery is designed to help newer players find their way around. The real 'starting' level on Arelith is 3.

Killing giant rats is not mundane for a level 1-3 PC, newly arrived with little gear.
For a level 30 PC it is very mundane.
For a level 3 PC alongside a 30 PC it is very mundane.
R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 pm
Instead, I think you are basically saying "you shouldn't get XP unless you can handle it alone". Which is what those of us saying this is a move to help out solo players are saying.
Not at all, if you can't handle content alone, pick an easier quest or RP to get a group.
Or alternatively get XP another way, by RPR or grinding, rather than quests - until you can handle the quests.

I'm arguing against getting big chunks of XP for very minimal effort.
R0GUE wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 pm
I've pointed out in earlier posts that bards, rogues, clerics, and various other classes and builds are much better off aiding other adventurers than trying to solo content themselves. They can even aid when there are those in the party are much higher level than them. Healing is healing, it is a good contribution regardless of PC level. The skill to disable a trap is a benefit to many parties with higher level members. In these cases you are not just being power leveled by a high level PC, you are actively contributing to the success of the venture.
Bards, rogues and clerics are absolutely exceptional at levelling solo. (Rogues being a new addition to that with the recent changes, but still capable with parry changes pre-basin nerf)

Disable trap / open lock is of no use to significantly higher level party members, because the DC checks rise to the content and, thankfully, we don't have a situation in which there are impossible locks that gate content. The majority of PC's will also have some method of opening locks or disabling traps. Even if hypothetically they didn't, in most cases the cost of bringing on a low level that doesn't contribute will be more costly even if you were to factor in the big chunks of 300gp trash loot that you find every so often.

A significantly lower level PC doesn't contribute to level appropriate content, or they do so in a minor way - sure an extra heal kit is useful, but an out of range lower level PC will be tagging on to a group already capable of doing the content in the average scenario.

The issue is not about anyone getting XP, it is about people getting lots of XP for doing very little.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Kriegos » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:49 pm

I feel like a one of the key points of the pushback is being consistently ignored, so I’ll lay it out real simply:

Arelith’s rules insist we don’t break character. (It’s one of the reasons so many of us are here, in fact)

This mechanic requires us to check specific character levels, an OOC metric of power, while the rules insist we not break character and communicate OOC.

It introduces a mechanic where people can not get credit for doing something they, in fact, did without an IC reason.

See the issue, here? It pushes OOC interactions on a server that literally has a rule against them.

Some of my characters would never pass on helping someone who asked for aid, but this mechanic means they can not do so directly - but the characters would!

So to those making the change:
Because it is one of the ONLY golden rules of Arelith, What IN-CHARACTER justifications are there for this, and avenues for working around it?

If you’re absolutely set on this direction, what in-character means do you plan to give us to avoid having to break character in these situation?

Finally, if this is *really* about balanced game design, why was this change rolled out with such disregard to the server rules around it being impacted? People are talking about it being Game Design 101, but so are ‘Don’t push code that breaks other things.’ And ‘Don’t add systems that are incongruous with your other systems.’ It didn’t break any code, no, but it’s sure breaking my immersion and ability to play without breaking character, both in promoting OOC communication, and in dictating that my character should avoid doing something they have no IC reason not to.

The rules are at odds with each other, here. That’s what we’re all concerned about. It’s not up to us players to fix that or find a creative way around it, it’s up to the show runners. If this change is here to stay, might I suggest rolling it back until you have a complete solution to both the mechanical change and the IC issues it creates, instead of priecemealing in one thing after another?

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Nitro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:03 pm

Kriegos wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:49 pm
I feel like a one of the key points of the pushback is being consistently ignored, so I’ll lay it out real simply:

Arelith’s rules insist we don’t break character. (It’s one of the reasons so many of us are here, in fact)

This mechanic requires us to check specific character levels, an OOC metric of power, while the rules insist we not break character and communicate OOC.

It introduces a mechanic where people can not get credit for doing something they, in fact, did without an IC reason.

See the issue, here? It pushes OOC interactions on a server that literally has a rule against them.

Some of my characters would never pass on helping someone who asked for aid, but this mechanic means they can not do so directly - but the characters would!
How is this any different than before the writs existed in the first place though? Would you go along with players 8 levels lower than you despite knowing it would kill any XP gain they would get? Would you regularly adventure with the help of high levels in low level zones knowing it killed your own XP?

This isn't something new in Arelith, it's just new on a slightly less new (but still new) system to bring it up to snuff with what's already been in place for years.

And on a sidenote, it's perfectly easy to ask IC about levels. "Hey, do you want to go adventuring in the FoD?" "No, it's a bit too easy for me" or "No, that's a bit out of my league". It doesn't have to be a big OOC mess unless you make it into one.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:07 pm

I can get 1k xp for sneaking to the Outpost without engaging a single enemy. A straight walk. I could do the same thing, with a higher level sneak accompanying me, roleplaying the entire way about the best way to merge with the shadows, the right angle of sight to avoid detection, etc. I could be killing all the spawns en route with them watching me, not aiding me at all, and get nothing.

If I kill something all by myself, I get less xp than if I get three other people to do it in front of me while I stand by watching them.

If I use a scroll to summon a creature and then buff it and watch it kill things, I get more xp than watching a high level weaponmaster that I've also buffed.

Let's not really pretend that these things have any actual logic by comparing them to real life. What they need to have is game balance, not real world logic.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:22 pm

Nitro wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:03 pm
How is this any different than before the writs existed in the first place though? Would you go along with players 8 levels lower than you despite knowing it would kill any XP gain they would get? Would you regularly adventure with the help of high levels in low level zones knowing it killed your own XP?
Yes. Many of us have in the past numerous of times and would again, for the sake of the RP it spawns. It's about more than simply getting exp (or even loot, for that matter, though at least THAT is an IC reason). Mentoring has already been mentioned, but there a plethora of reasons my character might come along with some high levels. Firstly, if she's well-acquainted with her and they asked for help, she won't refuse. This has happened with past characters, long before writs were ever a thing. Long before Adventure experience was a thing.

Nitro wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:03 pm
And on a sidenote, it's perfectly easy to ask IC about levels. "Hey, do you want to go adventuring in the FoD?" "No, it's a bit too easy for me" or "No, that's a bit out of my league". It doesn't have to be a big OOC mess unless you make it into one.
Again, I reiterate, some of us might be level 10 and still do level 6-7 content. With this change in mind, we're not 'supposed' to. This change disregards that our builds might not be optimized for solo or higher level content, because some of us do not care for min-maxing. Some of us came here to play TOGETHER with others. Both in and out of combat.


The relying issue isn't in the change itself, it's in the nature and spirit behind the change. When game mechanics trump Roleplay, as they do in this instance, that's a very bad sign for a server that claims on the Wiki that "Roleplay is the heart and soul of Arelith".

One might even ask, what's next? Are we going to add the -lfg command, which simplifies writs and makes our documents magical in nature so that we can constantly see what the Registry has available for our character? Select a task and some mysterious wizard teleports you to the dungeon. No, I'm just kidding; the wizard actually teleports you to an INSTANCE of the dungeon, a copy of the real area, so that all groups can have a dungeon for themselves.
Not only that, the Registry wizard always ensures there's 3 DPS characters, a healer, and a tank, all within each others' level range. And when you're done with the writs and looted the dungeon? You can -lfg recall to get back. Is that what it's going to come to?

If my snarky remark is the catalyst that locks this thread, so be it. I'm far from the only one who is shook by the nature of this update, and I wonder yet how many more, who do not often frequent the forums, have yet to discover the change.
WinkinBlinkin wrote:Let's not really pretend that these things have any actual logic by comparing them to real life. What they need to have is game balance, not real world logic.
Game balance is a fine line to walk, but it shouldn't be the most important thing. In a competitive game? Yes, indeed. Not in a D&D-based game (which is loosely based on a tabletop RPG that IS imbalanced), on a server that claims to be heavily invested in Roleplay. I'm not suggesting that game balance be disregarded completely. But to put it on such a pedestal is to sacrifice the quality and quantity of Roleplay that is less likely to happen now, during writ quests.
Arelith is NOT a competitive game. Neither is it a PvP game, for that matter, because Neverwinter Nights was clearly not developed in favor of PvP.


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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Booksarefun » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:38 pm

I'd understand this change more if the trip 1-30 was a big deal. It isn't, I thought getting to level 30 was an achievable and easy goal by design.

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by thingsicantdo » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:22 pm
If my snarky remark is the catalyst that locks this thread, so be it. I'm far from the only one who is shook by the nature of this update, and I wonder yet how many more, who do not often frequent the forums, have yet to discover the change.
hey, man. calm down. your post went from reading like "it doesn't matter what happens with the writs, since we don't have high/low level adventures for xp, we have them for rp" (yes, i'm aware i misread that. but that was the conclusion i drew from your point). to "i'm salty. i'm so salty i don't care if i end the discussion"

also, slippery slope arguments are rarely worthwhile. if you're starting an argument with "what's next...?" it's probably not super relevant. i don't mean this as a personal attack, i'm just trying to get your point back on topic

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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Richørd » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:21 pm

Why and how are people still arguing about this?

More than half the posts in here were clear and well explained arguments -against- this change.
Add on top that the "oposition" , that likes this change , still has not adressed the main argument which is the point of having to break character and getting forced into OOC communication and / or not being able to help people anymore properly just because of a levelrange.

Also, imagine this. Two buddies / friends / married couple play together, alright?
Both are at roughly the same level.
Now person A levels up again. That single level gets him out of the levelrange for the writs B has to do.
The solution to this is holding your levelups? Or the looseexp command? On a RP focused server?

And about : "Oh it is so easy to grind exp, why do you even need writs"
Writs are simply cool, clean and easy for EVERYONE that wants to earn some exp. Even if it is the less efficient way, it's better to collect some strangers to go and slay a specific necromancer who has been terrorizing the lands instead of saying "Sup broski, let's grind in the forest for several hours"

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Kriegos
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by Kriegos » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Nitro wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:03 pm
And on a sidenote, it's perfectly easy to ask IC about levels. "Hey, do you want to go adventuring in the FoD?" "No, it's a bit too easy for me" or "No, that's a bit out of my league". It doesn't have to be a big OOC mess unless you make it into one.
I think you're missing the point. It's easy for evil characters to deflect a request. With neutral ones, as it should be, it would depend heavily on circumstance. I can't speak for others, but my good characters would help a lower level character in a heartbeat when asked, and they DO get asked. It's easy IC to explain the mechanic where they'll get less XP from kills. "You won't learn much if I come and do everything. If that's still alright, I'd be happy to come with" is the go-to warning about that.

This point I'm trying to get is that now my good characters, who want to help a request, even if it's from a low level person to do a low level thing, have to try to explain to the low level person that they could come with, want to in fact, but the writ agent won't count it if the contract gets done by someone too strong for... reasons? If you've got a good way to work around that, let's hear it. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. I'd use it in a heartbeat if it makes sense for the characters.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:44 pm

This change is trash.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: "A member of your party..." (Writs feedback)

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:49 pm

Someone tell me how im supposed to IC determine someones level for the purposes of writ progression when the randos I met are in -notells mode

edit; is someone messing up your writs by being the incorrect level an IC thing? if so can I pvp someone for being too low level and therefore wasting my time?
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