Bigby's Curshing Hand

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs, Contributors

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:14 pm

flower wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:25 pm
Jagel wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:42 pm
True dat.

Geezer time: back when I joined the server in 2004, Bigby spells really were a win button as scrolls were far more rare and the metagame assesment of counters to min-max tactics was much less developed than it is now.

Once a mage hit lvl 17 any warrior might as well just back off.
When i joined, if you wanted to win PVPs, you made a mage. UD was usually controlled by faction having more mages than others.

Fortunetly these days are partly over and meelers got many new boons since it.

However one thing i dont like and that is duration of all these disabling spells. They are too long for a spell where opposition fails the save and practically lost it.
Newer editions allow the save to be rerolled every round, which is a lot fairer and much less binary.

User avatar
Hunter548
Posts: 1869
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:40 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Hunter548 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:12 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:14 pm
flower wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:25 pm
Jagel wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:42 pm
True dat.

Geezer time: back when I joined the server in 2004, Bigby spells really were a win button as scrolls were far more rare and the metagame assesment of counters to min-max tactics was much less developed than it is now.

Once a mage hit lvl 17 any warrior might as well just back off.
When i joined, if you wanted to win PVPs, you made a mage. UD was usually controlled by faction having more mages than others.

Fortunetly these days are partly over and meelers got many new boons since it.

However one thing i dont like and that is duration of all these disabling spells. They are too long for a spell where opposition fails the save and practically lost it.
Newer editions allow the save to be rerolled every round, which is a lot fairer and much less binary.
But also a fairly sizable nerf to mages.

Don't get me wrong, these "Save or X" spells aren't hugely healthy or good for the game, but fixing the problem requires basically rebuilding the mechanics half of the server from the ground up to avoid putting classes wholesale into the trashbin, same as the UMD problem. It's not a simple solution.
UilliamNebel wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pm
You're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote: I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.

TimeAdept
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by TimeAdept » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:18 pm

You could make it like re save in rounds equal to level of spell, so Crushing gives a reroll every 9 rounds, Fear gives a reroll every 4, etc.

Still a very sizeable nerf tho.

On Amia we went even further and just made CC spells last a max of 5 rounds, with ESF giving an extra round - but other spells in general were also made more powerful to account for the fact that you could no longer Fear someone for RL minutes.

thingsicantdo
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by thingsicantdo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:38 pm

TimeAdept wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:18 pm
You could make it like re save in rounds equal to level of spell, so Crushing gives a reroll every 9 rounds,
woof.

if he has 9th level spell slots, and wasn't going to kill you in 9 rounds, then he had no intention of killing you at all.

so, yeah, seems like a nerf... but not a noticeable one, imo.

User avatar
Peppermint
Posts: 1860
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Peppermint » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:52 am

Shadowy Reality wrote:It is likewise unfortunate that everyone needs 350+ HP to survive more than one WM hit or the Evo Combo.
I'm afraid I'll have to call you on this one.

The least amount of hit points a character can have by level 30 is 270*. That's assuming a pure mage with 8 constitution and no toughness feat.

Bumping that total to over 350 requires a modest investment of 14 constitution on a pure mage--which has the lowest base hit point total in the game.

Which is essentially to say that unless you're playing a pure mage with virtually no constitution investment at all, you're guaranteed to have 350+ hit points. I should hope that anyone with fewer hit points than that would struggle; were that not the case, then dying on Arelith would probably be considered quite the impressive feat.

(* Gifts of Humility and Totem Druids excluded.)

User avatar
R0GUE
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by R0GUE » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:21 am

Peppermint wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:52 am
Shadowy Reality wrote:It is likewise unfortunate that everyone needs 350+ HP to survive more than one WM hit or the Evo Combo.
I'm afraid I'll have to call you on this one.

The least amount of hit points a character can have by level 30 is 270*. That's assuming a pure mage with 8 constitution and no toughness feat.

Bumping that total to over 350 requires a modest investment of 14 constitution on a pure mage--which has the lowest base hit point total in the game.

Which is essentially to say that unless you're playing a pure mage with virtually no constitution investment at all, you're guaranteed to have 350+ hit points. I should hope that anyone with fewer hit points than that would struggle; were that not the case, then dying on Arelith would probably be considered quite the impressive feat.

(* Gifts of Humility and Totem Druids excluded.)
Hmmm, I don't think you are doing your math right. A wizard with 8 Con would receive 3 hp/lvl and have 90 hps at lvl 30. (Calculated because Wizard HD = 4 and Con 8 = a -1 modifier). Am I missing something?

Just as a for instance, my Bard 14/Rogue 4 with Con 14 and Toughness has 170 hps. If I go pure bard from here on out I'll have 278 hps, well under 350. I won't even get to 350 with my Bard Song active. The struggle for caster classes and hps is real.

User avatar
Peppermint
Posts: 1860
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Peppermint » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:54 am

I'm assuming optimal gear. +12 constitution from buffs/items is an additional 180 hit points at 30.

User avatar
R0GUE
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by R0GUE » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:57 am

Ahhh I see, but won't many be boosting their main stat over Con? I definitely cast Endurance on myself each time out but I haven't put Con on my gear.

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Shadowy Reality » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 am

Peppermint wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:54 am
I'm assuming optimal gear. +12 constitution from buffs/items is an additional 180 hit points at 30.
This is the issue, you are pretty much forced to have Con as a secondary stat on every character, along with a high base Con by itself. Not to mention you only really reach that level of gear in the epics, but that is besides the point.

I know it is the meta and that things are balanced for that currently, but I can still argue that an ideal world where having a mage with Dex as a secondary stat for more AC could be as viable as one with Con for more HP is more interesting than what we currently have. Choices are good.

User avatar
Peppermint
Posts: 1860
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Peppermint » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am

Mid to high range enchanted gear tends to have, at the very least, two stats.

The necessity of constitution isn't what's keeping mages from investing in dexterity. Dexterity being a bad primary stat for mages is what's keep mages from investing in dexterity. Mages invest primary casting stat and then constitution. Nearly every server. When you're wearing cloth anyhow, dexterity only carries you so far.

That said, if you want to tristat, it's certainly possible. Runic gear makes it easy enough. Transmutation focuses (for a caster) make it even easier.

User avatar
Hunter548
Posts: 1869
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:40 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 am
Peppermint wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:54 am
I'm assuming optimal gear. +12 constitution from buffs/items is an additional 180 hit points at 30.
This is the issue, you are pretty much forced to have Con as a secondary stat on every character, along with a high base Con by itself. Not to mention you only really reach that level of gear in the epics, but that is besides the point.

I know it is the meta and that things are balanced for that currently, but I can still argue that an ideal world where having a mage with Dex as a secondary stat for more AC could be as viable as one with Con for more HP is more interesting than what we currently have. Choices are good.
Choices are good, but a mage is going to get like 10 AC maximum from their dex with full investment. That's kind of lackluster regardless of how necessary con is or isn't.

You can do dex-heavy mages now, but you only go for 18 dex total to max our the AC on spellthief armor, and even doing that requires EMA and a full tumble dump to make it work.
UilliamNebel wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pm
You're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote: I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.

User avatar
flower
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:16 am

Re: Bigby's Curshing Hand

Post by flower » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:49 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 am
Peppermint wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:54 am
I'm assuming optimal gear. +12 constitution from buffs/items is an additional 180 hit points at 30.
This is the issue, you are pretty much forced to have Con as a secondary stat on every character, along with a high base Con by itself. Not to mention you only really reach that level of gear in the epics, but that is besides the point.

I know it is the meta and that things are balanced for that currently, but I can still argue that an ideal world where having a mage with Dex as a secondary stat for more AC could be as viable as one with Con for more HP is more interesting than what we currently have. Choices are good.
Everyone has maximum possible constitution as mandatory, or pulls shorther rope. Not just mage. ;)

Post Reply