"a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

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telmarael
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by telmarael » Sun May 27, 2018 8:15 am

WinkinBlinkin wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:07 am
However - Finger of Death in the driders, now that's a different matter.
Huh? Which drider uses FoD? I only saw those use IGMS and kill a few of my allies.

Two things I can say: don't go in before I darkness the area, and "you are not prepared!". As for my understanding of how adventuring works, you just keep getting experience of how to survive in as many situations as you can. If you can't survive, just RUN. That's all. Running is a good reaction to anything that might bring harm to your health, this is your primal survival instinct. If adventurers don't make a quick escape from the enemy they can't take down, they are bad adventurers and should probably die to learn the lesson, ahaha. At least that's how I learnt.
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Jagel » Sun May 27, 2018 11:15 am

WinkinBlinkin wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:07 am
However - Finger of Death in the driders, now that's a different matter.
It’s slay living, though, isn’t it?

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Iceborn
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Iceborn » Sun May 27, 2018 12:36 pm

It is.

I'd mention; I don't really fancy high tier or instakill magic in low level areas (drider's slay living and whatever is under level 10 already casting level 9 spells, no matter which ones they are), but yes; the server encourages a small, very small dose of metagaming to play it properly. If you want to hold yourself to a strict standard, feel free, but that is not the way the modules had been balanced.
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Cortex
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Cortex » Sun May 27, 2018 1:39 pm

arelith is the dark souls of nwn servers
:)

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sun May 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Slay living - my bad!

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Ork
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Ork » Sun May 27, 2018 3:43 pm

I don't want this to turn into a hold your hand kind of server. If you die, you die. Come back at the challenge a new way or avoid it.

PvE is already ridiculously easy.

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Xanos950
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Xanos950 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:15 pm

you haven't fully enjoyed the arelith experience until you were blessed by the opportunity of doing "Rezz-sickness-cripple-rp." Also known as "Time to AFK LUL" /sarcasm


i feel those mobs are more intended to slow down circle grinders, rather than kill newbies
Last edited by Xanos950 on Sun May 27, 2018 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cortex
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Cortex » Sun May 27, 2018 9:16 pm

thats certainly not why
:)

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Void » Sun May 27, 2018 10:03 pm

thingsicantdo wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:26 pm
Gods_Kill_People wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:44 pm
OH DAMN...THAT THINGS CASTING A SPELL AT ME...RUUUUUN!!!
so, do you run every time a monster priest begins casting "cure moderate wounds"?
Spells have different colors, and even dumbest fighters travel with clerics from time to time. At the very least they might learn that "red light means it is gonna hurt" and "Green means they're probably gonna heal".
thingsicantdo wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:26 pm
i mean, if metagaming for XP gain is fine, then it's game on.
It is not metagaming. Your character can get hit by it a couple of times and eventually recognize which chant+light combination means "run away". They won't know anything about the spell itself, and won't recognize WHICH spell is being cast.

My kensai with zero spellcraft eventually figured out which ones are trouble. Took couple of tries, though. "Started raining ? --- RUN!!!"
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by thingsicantdo » Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm

the point was never "guize i cant play well pls nerf server" it was "we have some inappropriate challenges for low level characters that trigger the oppressive death penalties"

to which, the answer is "metagame, bro." so, we seem to be done.

pls lock

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by The Kriv » Sun May 27, 2018 10:37 pm

It's difficult to say what is metagaming and what is RP in examples like the OP's above, since the encounters respawn themselves to almost near exact conditions almost every time. If it was an actual encounter, and your character was the first ever in the multiverse to come upon such as what you described at the top, then perhaps, yeah, some balance might be in order... but even then, some areas that are designed for level 6 characters aren't necessarily designed for solo level six characters or even a small group of specific class makeup.

The balance of power in PvE isn't set up to be even or fair to every single build or every single character class. It would be a fairly vanilla server if that were the case. And sometimes (As mentioned above) you need to flee.

Sometimes you get to be the hammer, and sometimes you get to be the nail. Perhaps the best way to handle your character's unfortunate situation is to be a siren of warning to others who may attempt the same areas. At least your character learned a valuable lesson, and perhaps will return more prepared to take it down using different or better tactics... or maybe your character JUST needs more experience (translation higher level) to successefully tackle it.


I can tell you from my own experience, that I have played characters who have gone solo against bosses who are in dungeon areas far below her class and she had her lunch money taken, in a very aggressive way, and barely made it out with her life... and that much lower level boss slinked back to it's lair with a firm grin knowing it sent another surface-fool packing.


Losing / dying sucks, but if we won every fight of every dungeon, Arelith would be a pretty boring place.
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Tourmaline » Mon May 28, 2018 2:57 am

thingsicantdo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm
the point was never "guize i cant play well pls nerf server" it was "we have some inappropriate challenges for low level characters that trigger the oppressive death penalties"

to which, the answer is "metagame, bro." so, we seem to be done.

pls lock
If that was the point then you should politely and matter-of-factly bring up the specific monster and area and point out that it needs to be looked at.

Nobody but you brought the idea of metagaming into this, and the reaction you got is because you're suggesting anyone who doesn't do it your way is doing it wrong.

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Ork » Mon May 28, 2018 4:20 am

Man, back in my day... "oppressive death penalties" was thousands and thousands of XP loss.

If your argument is that SoV is too much a challenge for low level characters, you're wrong and I think we all have outlined why you are wrong.

Bad things happen and it's best to roll with it.

perek586
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by perek586 » Mon May 28, 2018 5:39 am

thingsicantdo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm
the point was never "guize i cant play well pls nerf server" it was "we have some inappropriate challenges for low level characters that trigger the oppressive death penalties"

to which, the answer is "metagame, bro." so, we seem to be done.

pls lock
You are a very pleasant man and we are lucky to have you!

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telmarael
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by telmarael » Mon May 28, 2018 6:05 am

Perhaps that will be a little unfriendly from me, but I do wonder what does the author have to say when he meets the mages casting meteors on his head, especially when there are a few of them (let's show some love for the duergar, shall we, ahaha). Those guys wipe your whole party if you don't disrupt them fast enough in a very, very painful way. But hey, that's how your character learns what should and should not be done!
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by ReverentBlade » Mon May 28, 2018 6:30 am

Bandits casting level 9 spells in low level areas is just sloppy lore, without even getting into the balance aspect. Archmages and Archclerics stooping to highway robbery? C'mon.

perek586
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by perek586 » Mon May 28, 2018 7:27 am

ReverentBlade wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:30 am
Bandits casting level 9 spells in low level areas is just sloppy lore, without even getting into the balance aspect. Archmages and Archclerics stooping to highway robbery? C'mon.
Why wouldn't they?
Dont really see any lore reason that high tier mages and clerics cant turn to a life of crime.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Mon May 28, 2018 8:40 am

perek586 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:27 am
ReverentBlade wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:30 am
Bandits casting level 9 spells in low level areas is just sloppy lore, without even getting into the balance aspect. Archmages and Archclerics stooping to highway robbery? C'mon.
Why wouldn't they?
Dont really see any lore reason that high tier mages and clerics cant turn to a life of crime.
The crazy Archmage under Waterdeep is exact proof of this....

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Baron Saturday
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon May 28, 2018 8:49 am

The character isn't exactly an archcleric, he's just a boss with a handful (like, two) powerful, thematic spells that fit a servant of Umberlee.

Anyhow, dying because your character was adventuring alone against enemies with unknown capabilities and ran into a threat they didn't know how to counter seems like a pretty reasonable consequence to me.
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Sockss
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Sockss » Mon May 28, 2018 12:31 pm

An animal has an intelligence score of 1-2.
Animals run away from storms.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

thingsicantdo
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by thingsicantdo » Mon May 28, 2018 2:09 pm

wow, this has really kicked off since i requested a lock.

you guys are big on getting the last word and being general jerks, huh?

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Baron Saturday
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon May 28, 2018 3:08 pm

Threads on these forums have a tendency to take on a life of their own as people with different opinions chime in on different sides. I'm sorry that you see this as people being jerks and trying to get the last word in. Really, it's just a very vocal and passionate community that does get, uh, a wee bit snarky at times.
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Opustus
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Opustus » Mon May 28, 2018 9:39 pm

Wow, am I the only person here who actually agrees with the OP?

I don't think that anything instagibbing a level 8 character is good design, because I would consider that a serious deterrent to a new player who is drawn to the server because of its RP potential, not its hardcore-dungeon-encounter potential. In my humble opinion that is exactly the clientele a server like Arelith should keep in mind, first and foremost, when making its design decisions, instead of the experienced player, who probably breezes through whatever stuff anyway making it swiftly into their epics to face the ever greater challenge of staying awake during grind. I do agree with thingsicantdo's point on metagame also, even though I don't think that's as significant as the design in catering to certain people.

Also, a group of people getting somewhat personal with a single person who has been, in my view, pretty reasonable in presenting her points, and same group of people digressing the conversation into pretty much "learn to play" and "it's consequence of RP", is plainly a group of people being jerks towards a single person. I do respect thingsicantdo for not taking the crap and calling for a lock.
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Nitro
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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Nitro » Mon May 28, 2018 11:12 pm

Storm of Vengeance is hardly an instagib, but I do agree that it should probably be swapped out to something somewhat lower level and area appropriate.

But considering his responses have been in the veins of:
to which, the answer is "metagame, bro." so, we seem to be done.
Without anyone but him calling it metagaming, I can understand why people feel a need to speak up against that, especially when that tone can easily be construed as rude over the text medium of the internet.

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Re: "a monster cast a spell, and now i can't play for 30 minutes"

Post by Mithreas » Tue May 29, 2018 9:46 am

Opustus wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:39 pm
Wow, am I the only person here who actually agrees with the OP?
Nope!

I am very supportive of the desire not to metagame (and agree that taking "casting an unknown spell" to be "casting SoV" is literally metagaming).

I differ slightly on the view that it should always be possible to avoid nasty death, but then, I've always liked sending PCs to nasty deaths...
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