Lost Desert

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

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Intrepid42
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Intrepid42 » Wed May 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Your experience may vary. On my first PC, I wandered the desert for three RL days worth of play sessions. I survived, just. Fortunately the clue was in the name, "Lost" Desert, and I had stocked up on water before going in.

Everyone else was running dungeons, and Me, why, I was going around in circles in the Lost Desert, watching my water supply gradually dwindle.

Treasured memories, wouldn't have changed a thing.

Void
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Void » Wed May 09, 2018 11:24 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 5:29 pm
What's exactly the problem with the IG solution of "wander the lost freaking desert until you die"?
The problem is it isn't fun, takes forever, it is acting out of character and I have better IRL things to do than this.

Also, leaving the area is beyond your control.

For comparison, getting suddenly teleported in random point of arelith forest or jungle (or just any point on the server, really) is much more entertaining.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

Gnarh
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Gnarh » Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:24 pm
The problem is it isn't fun, takes forever, it is acting out of character and I have better IRL things to do than this.

Also, leaving the area is beyond your control.

For comparison, getting suddenly teleported in random point of arelith forest or jungle (or just any point on the server, really) is much more entertaining.
Leaving the area isn't beyond your control. You can die. It's what would happen to your character who didn't prepare properly.

There are legitimate IG options here. You may not be happy with those options, but Arelith is a persistent world, and to this:

1. There are consequences to your character's actions; and,
2. Rule number 1 of the server is to "Role Play" - which explicitly means to stay in character. This means if your character gets lost in a desert because they didn't prepare properly, you should role play out and accept the consequences for your character.

Being blunt, i've got next to no pity for posts like this. It's all on you buddy - if your character gets themselves into a mess, then they ought to accept the consequences. You can claim it isn't "fun" all you like - but you can't expect the Dev's to ruin everyone else's fun because you've had a bad experience... especially when your complaint boils down to a desire to avoid IG consequences for IG actions.

thingsicantdo
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by thingsicantdo » Thu May 10, 2018 1:22 am

Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am
Being blunt, i've got next to no pity for posts like this. It's all on you buddy - if your character gets themselves into a mess, then they ought to accept the consequences. You can claim it isn't "fun" all you like - but you can't expect the Dev's to ruin everyone else's fun because you've had a bad experience... especially when your complaint boils down to a desire to avoid IG consequences for IG actions.
no one is requesting for the devs to ruin everyone else's fun, this is a feedback thread. they're giving feedback.

put down the torch and pitchfork for now. let's let people give feedback, as requested, and stop acting like they're in the wrong for daring to question a feature

Gnarh
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Gnarh » Thu May 10, 2018 2:14 am

Ah, that may have come across a little more harsh than intended.

I do apologise for that. I stand by the point - but it isn't personal.

I'll also acknowledge the frustration that can be involved with mechanics like the lost desert, as well as some of Mithreas' more devious torments, but that frustration isn't a reason not to deal with IG things IG.

Something that's popped into my mind is the idea that in most games there is an expectation that a player should get to go everywhere - but I don't feel that this is the case with Arelith, particularly given it's an RP server. I've been playing for over 10 years, and there are still places my characters have never been. This is mostly because they've never had an IC reason for going there. Maybe there's a better way to approach this in that differentiation between the player and the character.

Void
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Void » Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am
Leaving the area isn't beyond your control.
Leaving area is beyond your control, because it is fully determined by RNG. As far as I can tell, you have no say where you end up at.

You know, I had a blast when once upon a time I was thrown into absolutely random area of the server that didn't have a portal, a ship, and it wasn't clear if it is even possible to leave it. It was a blast, because I was able to explore area, study its layout, secrets, etc, and combat was pretty challenging.

Lost desert is unlike that.
Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am
You can die. It's what would happen to your character who didn't prepare properly.
The character I played couldn't die there. It was impossible. I could easily stay alive for 6 IRL months in there with no problem.
Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am
Being blunt, i've got next to no pity for posts like this.
Being blunt, you don't seem to be paying any attention to what people say.

The two rules you listed here are irrelevant in the situation. Because character is not a death seeker, suicide is not an option. Because character is good at survival, it won't EVER starve, die of thirst or get killed.

There's next to nothing to interact with as well. So, "IC consequences" are nil. You just wander around for next XYZ hours, completely safe. It is the very definition of inescapable boredom.
Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 am
but you can't expect the Dev's to ruin everyone else's
Are you a Dev? No? Then why do you speak for them? Speak for yourself.
Also, whose fun? There are no players in the area. IF I met someone, things would've been interesting. But there was nobody.

By the way, it wouldn't kill anybody's fun if /that one location/ with npcs had a guide added that could lead you out. For a price. Or for free. It would fit thematically. Such npcs already exist, for example, to the north from dwarven halls.

Also, seriously, what the hell. This is feedback.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

Gnarh
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Gnarh » Thu May 10, 2018 3:59 am

Can a moderator lock this please?

Yes, it's supposed to be a feedback forum, but forums are for discussion - which is now fairly obvious that it doesn't seem to be being achieved in this thread.

Void
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Void » Thu May 10, 2018 4:25 am

Requesting thread lock. If a dev wants to respond, I'm quite certain they'll be able to respond even with lock in effect.
Gnarh wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:59 am
but forums are for discussion - which
I would prefer if feedback had responses disabled in the same way as bug reporting forums.
otherwise it'll be the same thing all over again "I think this isn't fun/I think this could be improved" would result in people rushing to "defend" someone or argue to death. Like it happened this time.

Problems has been outlined:

1. Sandstorms locking people in one area.
2. People occasionally wandering around aimlessly for inordinate amount of time that can last for IRL days.

And possible suggestions:
1. Remove or shorten lockdown for sandstorms.
2. Portal sources (few applicable areas, including that one dungeon)
3. Guide npcs to lead people out. (also an applicable area for that)

Personally, while I see what it was supposed to BE, I think implementation could use improvement. Rather than random dice roll through transition, a better idea would be to have area rearrange connections once per IRL hour or once per reset. This way it would be possible to explore it without getting stuck and have element of randomness.

As for "But this is consequences!!!!" argument - the issue with the area is lack of those. In a situation where the desert can't kill you, you're stuck in limbo state with no way out. That could work in PnP campaign (where you can timeskip), but it is not good in a game. It is not punishing the character, but punishign a player instead.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Durvayas
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Durvayas » Thu May 10, 2018 5:15 am

I've always disliked how easily you get trapped in an area by the sandstorms. Go out one transition, back in same map, go out another transition, same map. Congrats, you're stuck in this area you already cleared of spawns for 5RL minutes. Go afk and make a sandwich or something. Anything that encourages me to get up from my desk and do something else because its blocked by arbitrary timing is piss poor game design, and the antithesis of fun. I regard the lost desert transitions the same way I regarded the old fear mechanics; In dire need of a redesign(thank the gods fear was changed).

If the lost desert is meant to seem truly lost, get rid of the ability to be back in the same area you just left. Expand the number of areas to actually make it bigger, and not just cycle through 5-7 areas from different directions, but for the love of the gods, disable the ability to be stuck in one zone with no enemies.

Slowly dying of thirst and hunger and rest in the wilderness is good thematically. Accelerate that by wiping out the water meter by a good 10% a tick. Make it more lethal, not more tedious, which is what it is right now. The reason most people avoid the area is that it being so reliant on RNG to get out, and so very not rewarding to be in in the first place, means that only two kinds of people go there.

1) People who have been there before, and know how not fun it is, and so go with a specific RP goal in mind(to see the oracle for example) and have prepared to get out of the desert with a lense(3500 for a lense these days. you'll never make that kind of gold in the lost desert, every trip to the desert is a zero-sum-game at best, a fiscal disaster at worst). As soon as they've found what they're looking for, they lense out, or they carry a stack of 10 spirits and suicide. If the player does not have a VERY pressing reason to go, they might never set foot in the area again if they can avoid it.

2) People who have never been to the lost desert, and go in expecting an adventure, to explore, and find something interesting. Those people will be there long enough to run into the oracle, and the desert encampment. If they're too low a level, they'll die early. If they're too high a level, they'll find the content lackluster, because the LD is a low exp, low loot yield area. They rapidly discover the only reason to do the LD is for the RP, because you'll never find anything out there that will justify the expense of the trip, nor the frustration of dealing with the RNG sandstorms.

My personal opinion, is that it needs a redesign to make it less OOCly frustrating, or to make that frustration more worth the effort, because right now, its almost wasted module space that sees very little traffic.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

Void
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Void » Thu May 10, 2018 5:20 am

Durvayas wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 5:15 am
I've always disliked how easily you get trapped in an area by the sandstorms. Go out one transition, back in same map, go out another transition, same map. Congrats, you're stuck in this area you already cleared of spawns for 5RL minutes. Go afk and make a sandwich or something. Anything that encourages me to get up from my desk and do something else because its blocked by arbitrary timing is piss poor game design, and the antithesis of fun. I regard the lost desert transitions the same way I regarded the old fear mechanics; In dire need of a redesign(thank the gods fear was changed).

If the lost desert is meant to seem truly lost, get rid of the ability to be back in the same area you just left. Expand the number of areas to actually make it bigger, and not just cycle through 5-7 areas from different directions, but for the love of the gods, disable the ability to be stuck in one zone with no enemies.

Slowly dying of thirst and hunger and rest in the wilderness is good thematically. Accelerate that by wiping out the water meter by a good 10% a tick. Make it more lethal, not more tedious, which is what it is right now. The reason most people avoid the area is that it being so reliant on RNG to get out, and so very not rewarding to be in in the first place, means that only two kinds of people go there.

1) People who have been there before, and know how not fun it is, and so go with a specific RP goal in mind(to see the oracle for example) and have prepared to get out of the desert with a lense(3500 for a lense these days. you'll never make that kind of gold in the lost desert, every trip to the desert is a zero-sum-game at best, a fiscal disaster at worst). As soon as they've found what they're looking for, they lense out, or they carry a stack of 10 spirits and suicide. If the player does not have a VERY pressing reason to go, they might never set foot in the area again if they can avoid it.

2) People who have never been to the lost desert, and go in expecting an adventure, to explore, and find something interesting. Those people will be there long enough to run into the oracle, and the desert encampment. If they're too low a level, they'll die early. If they're too high a level, they'll find the content lackluster, because the LD is a low exp, low loot yield area. They rapidly discover the only reason to do the LD is for the RP, because you'll never find anything out there that will justify the expense of the trip, nor the frustration of dealing with the RNG sandstorms.

My personal opinion, is that it needs a redesign to make it less OOCly frustrating, or to make that frustration more worth the effort, because right now, its almost wasted module space that sees very little traffic.
That sums my experience nicely.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Miaou
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Re: Lost Desert

Post by Miaou » Thu May 10, 2018 6:44 am

The feedback board is for open feedback. Anyone can respond and give opinions on the topic. You may not like these opinions. You may not have the staff or devs respond. If you wish to make a suggestion, there is a board for that.
NegInfinity wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:25 am
otherwise it'll be the same thing all over again "I think this isn't fun/I think this could be improved" would result in people rushing to "defend" someone or argue to death. Like it happened this time.
People find enjoyment from different things. Arelith needs to take into consideration the player base as a whole. People voicing their opinion of what they like or enjoy is giving feedback. If an open discussion is not what was desired, a suggestion post is more ideal.

Locking as per OP's request, and before this gets worse.

Locked