[Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

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Gods_Kill_People
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:51 pm

They mean, one faction should not be able to hold 3 separate Guildhalls, players owning seperate houses sure, but 3 guild halls, im inclined to agree.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:55 pm

I'm not. Property actually goes up for sale all the time it just gets nabbed within minutes, right now the issue is 300 people active at once and hardly any quarters available to make up for the huge uptick in population.

Meaning an already competitive housing market just became ULTRA competitive, and thus far nothing has been done to solve the housing crisis.

If there were just more houses there would be little reason to grab as much as you can, when you can flip a guild hall for 4 million gold via IC auctions there is a HUGE reason to buy literally anything you can, and that situation only exists due to the severe housing shortage since EE.
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Durvayas » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:40 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:34 pm
this is just from a walk about today in Andunor and the Port area.

four shops and three guild houses owned by one faction

just my opinion but this shouldnt be allowed for one faction to have three guildhouses
Four shops to one faction sounds like a group is running a very successful merchant empire/conglomorate/syndicate. I see no issues there.

And the quarters in the port are not guildhouses, so far as I'm aware. I presume you're talking about the buildings that have the shops inside them. But even if they were(and they'd have one, MAYBE two quarters apiece), you're complaining about a faction that has a good 12+ people owning several small buildings and sharing them.

I still fail to see any issues here, aside from that the population in Andunor has literally doubled in under a month. Not something any of these factions are responsible for, nor should they be punished for staying within the rules. If anything, my suggestion to people who find themselves without property is simple.

Join a group that has property.

Until the devs manage to address the lack of housing, that is the only real solution. Join a group that is holding land, or do without until/unless you can finagle a patch of dirt for yourself. Its like basic feudalism crossed with supply/demand economics.
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Blood on my Lips » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:09 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:34 pm
this is just from a walk about today in Andunor and the Port area.

four shops and three guild houses owned by one faction

just my opinion but this shouldnt be allowed for one faction to have three guildhouses
I'm sorry but I have to point out how you are incorrect here. There are not even three guildhouses in the Andunor and Port District Area. Guidhouses are very rare. What you saw are regular houses.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:26 am

Ebonstar's wrong in particular, but not in general. Getting a shop is frustrating, because often they are passed within both ic factions and ooc cliques like heirlooms. I've seen 3rd level characters own shops and property in prime location in Andunor, and curiously, those 3rd level character have tended to be alts of allies of the previous owners. This is not a good thing.

I'd ideally like to see a randomised period of between 12 and 36 hours from when a shop/property goes up for sale, and when it is available to buy. This would prevent both auctioning and twinking. And yes, this might prevent legitimately passing assets between factions, but that would be a price I would be entirely happy with paying to open the market up fairly to allcomers. It could even generate lots of conflict roleplay if a notice went up saying the property/shop was about to come up for sale.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by WinkinBlinkin » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:35 am

I'd like to say - I think we've all been guilty of twinking our friends with property/items in a way that is detrimental to the server at times, or at least not complained overly about being on the receiving end of it. I'm not saying I'm an angel and I appreciate the hands off approach of the DM team here. If its doable, its human nature to do it. But if we can create mechanical systems that promote fairness without taking the approach of punishing players, I think that would be better.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Gnarh » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:10 am

My two cents would be an increase in "tavern" style rooms under the current system. More rooms above the spiders' web, the clover, the nomad, etc.

As for anything bigger/unique - and this includes the houses in the Sharps/Devil Table, temples, guildhouses etc - it should all be through the brokerage system. Factions or individuals can bid on them. Someone needs to write an algorithm that balances gold against the number of players (by CD key) who contribute gold for a "faction" to err on the side of the group that would get the most use from the property.

Leases last for 5 years IG (approx 6 months). In the 4th year, bidding opens again.

For ships/quarters/guildhouses outside of settlements - add a "Patron" to each that owns the property, who the PC's rent it off. Then it goes back to the Brokerage system but with the "Patron" being the one you get the lease off.

That way everyone knows when properties are likely to come up, it means that factions can target the properties they want and attempt to work towards them, stops hoarding by single players and acts as a nice little gold sink as well.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Drexyl N~drass » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:59 pm

I'd say there needs to be a guildhouse in the Port district. That would help for starters. The reason the Coven owns so much private property is they were exiled from both districts. As far as the amount of shops under the factions flag... They are a Merchant guild first and foremost. All the Shops are good and profitable shops. They keep Andunor well stocked.
Each Player is allowed to own one shop, and one quarter.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by nobs3 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:45 pm

To the options Irongon mentioned: 1 & 2 and with some time 3

There are plenty of possibilities regarding 1): E.g. slum-tunnel from docks over slave pits, weels to Shaprs (orog caves and communal caves included). A third district at the slave pits (on the other side of the water) for Outcasts (and specific restrictions to voting and ownership in the other two districts). Connecting the Web and the cloak and daggers to the Hub and expanding rooms there. (And personally I would very much like to see quarters that more or less point to “tribal”/moster races.)

2) Pirate topic at the Shipyard would be nice but I don’t know if it has a chance. Outpost expansion would be best. Easy to reach and open for everyone. Rothe fields and the gate there might be good too – but would need an own topic (farming and supply?).

If 3) that new place would need a very distinct and different setting to Andunor, a special relationship to Andunor and some mutual structural dependences.

Have not read all regarding ownership of guilds. Only factions can own guilds sounds good. The number of faction members must be more than quarters in all guilds that faction owns. So guilds always will have the property “keyless entry – faction”. If you want a private chest you need to rent a quarter (if you own a guild then in your guild). That won’t change much but at least guilds are bound to factions…

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Blood on my Lips
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Blood on my Lips » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:28 pm

Everyone wants to own a house, I get that. But I really think the amount of "twinking" that goes on regarding housing and shops is being over exaggerated. I haven't seen very many auctions either. In the past few months I can recall one shop and one property (not even located in the UD) that were up for auction.

The real problems that exist with housing; there's more players than available housing and housing that is horded by players that pretty much just log in to refresh them.

Most people that have a house or quarter had to spend a great deal of time searching for those properties. I know I did.

There was a shortage of housing in the UD long before the EE migration. Since then, there has been a huge increase in the number of players on the server. The idea that housing distribution needs to be "fair" is rather ridiculous.

The Arelith staff has their hands full with a ton of legitimate problems right now that actually effect game play. I would rather see them focus on fixing all the things that broke during the migration. And eventually, when time allows, I'm sure that they will address the problem of a shortage in housing, which is actually a far bigger project than you might think it is.

In the meantime, walk around and check out all the properties, there's some hidden ones, and maybe you'll get lucky.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Tourmaline » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:55 pm

How many people take housing just for storage? Not as a place to RP around, but just for the chest inside it? That seems like part of the problem to me.

I think the bank vaults are a great idea but even then there aren't enough to go around. But if a few dozen more cheap vaults were added and at the same time the cost of maintenance and initial investment of actual real estate were to skyrocket, would that help matters?

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by TimeAdept » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:01 pm

I won't lie, 90% of the reason I want a quarter is storage. I tend to make very active crafter characters, so my consideration is: 1 - prime shop real estate, 2 - hole to dump my stuff.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by BegoneThoth » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:48 pm

Tourmaline wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:55 pm
How many people take housing just for storage? Not as a place to RP around, but just for the chest inside it? That seems like part of the problem to me.

I think the bank vaults are a great idea but even then there aren't enough to go around. But if a few dozen more cheap vaults were added and at the same time the cost of maintenance and initial investment of actual real estate were to skyrocket, would that help matters?
That's why I think a double or triple level slum-style apartment building in a few places on the server would be great. 24 more quarters, and RP as you 'move in' and ongoing rp as you work to move out.
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Sab1 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:05 am

There will always be more people than houses and the server really doesn't need any more shops. Majority of shops sell junk or are way overpriced as it is.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by TimeAdept » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:54 am

More freedom for PCs to sell items on an open PC market is not a bad thing in any way shape or form.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Cortex » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:35 am

itd be a good meme if arelith ever reached this point
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Kuma » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:02 am

BegoneThoth wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:48 pm
That's why I think a double or triple level slum-style apartment building in a few places on the server would be great. 24 more quarters, and RP as you 'move in' and ongoing rp as you work to move out.
I've always wanted an apartment-style building in Cordor and Andunor, similar to Roman insulae. It also doesn't need to be a copypasted lump of dull, there's really a lot of flavour you could chuck in. The main issue though is that fixture space would be limited, and lots of the tilesets have issues of hearing between walls.
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Rebel4ever » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:35 am

The Arelith staff has their hands full with a ton of legitimate problems right now that actually effect game play. I would rather see them focus on fixing all the things that broke during the migration. And eventually, when time allows, I'm sure that they will address the problem of a shortage in housing, which is actually a far bigger project than you might think it is.
One could argue that not having anywhere to put things like..ore for forging is a gameplay issue. Seeing it weighs so much that you simply can't carry much of it. Weight is a game play issue...it directly effects what stats and buffs you have to take. Its easy to say if you have somewhere to store you crafting stuff but some folk don't.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Teshil » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:47 am

Another vote for more buildings with tiny apartments in them in Cordor and Andunor. That’s how most of the workaday npcs are living, right?

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Void » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:13 pm

Sab1 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:05 am
There will always be more people than houses and the server really doesn't need any more shops. Majority of shops sell junk or are way overpriced as it is.
Speaking of which, at least some cities seem to have laws against overpriced items.

Would be a good idea to start reporting the shops to authorities, lawful evil style.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by BegoneThoth » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:11 pm

Kuma wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:02 am
BegoneThoth wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:48 pm
That's why I think a double or triple level slum-style apartment building in a few places on the server would be great. 24 more quarters, and RP as you 'move in' and ongoing rp as you work to move out.
I've always wanted an apartment-style building in Cordor and Andunor, similar to Roman insulae. It also doesn't need to be a copypasted lump of dull, there's really a lot of flavour you could chuck in. The main issue though is that fixture space would be limited, and lots of the tilesets have issues of hearing between walls.
I'd think copy/pasted rooms, 'hearing through the walls,' and limited fixture space, would actually be appropriate here if they're slum-style apartments.

The ideas is they serve as a place for a lowbie to live while they level up and wait for an actual place to open up unless they just love slummin it. They're made bad 'ic' on purpose; water leaks in, end of the hall has an odor cloud, etc.
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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Kuma » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:20 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:11 pm
Kuma wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:02 am
BegoneThoth wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:48 pm
That's why I think a double or triple level slum-style apartment building in a few places on the server would be great. 24 more quarters, and RP as you 'move in' and ongoing rp as you work to move out.
I've always wanted an apartment-style building in Cordor and Andunor, similar to Roman insulae. It also doesn't need to be a copypasted lump of dull, there's really a lot of flavour you could chuck in. The main issue though is that fixture space would be limited, and lots of the tilesets have issues of hearing between walls.
I'd think copy/pasted rooms, 'hearing through the walls,' and limited fixture space, would actually be appropriate here if they're slum-style apartments.

The ideas is they serve as a place for a lowbie to live while they level up and wait for an actual place to open up unless they just love slummin it. They're made bad 'ic' on purpose; water leaks in, end of the hall has an odor cloud, etc.
I mean they should be "poor quality" from an IC feel, but limited fixture space, speaking bugs and boring design are OOC or gamplay things, really. There's a lot you can do flavour-wise to make a place feel gritty, run down and grotty while remaining visually interesting and being a-okay gameplay.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Nitinious » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:00 pm

I think the City Port (In the Underdark) could use a Guildhouse.

In general there should be more added, as we are on an EE released with more (double?) players now. Therefore there's room to expand, people's be feelin' it.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Irongron » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:54 pm

Well I've spent the entire day working on something here.

Should be updating within the next hour.

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Re: [Housing] Andunor/underdark in dire need of additional housing

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:59 pm

your too awesome Irongorn

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