Reward Change

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susitsu
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Re: Reward Change

Post by susitsu » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:17 pm

Forever locked? No one's said anything like that. I always assumed this was more based on a silent rotation.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:21 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:Just force a description. It's a reward race with bonus stats. Just force those extra-planar characteristics in the description. If you get ostracized by normal people, good, it's what you signed up for and what the setting demands.
If we were going to start pushing for a system that ostracizes characters from the get-go, I think Cordor would need to have more of an NPC-supported shady underbelly than it currently does, because while the setting is important, so is the ability to have fun, and if you make a character, immediately get pushed out of normal society, and then have nowhere that you can take your pitiful beginner self... that's no fun.

Frankly, I think Cordor could use more support for underworld-type characters anyways. As it stands, yeah, there's the occasional shady group that pops up, but it's entirely player-driven. There's no real infrastructure there for low-level characters - no fence, no rogue-centric quarters. The Fool's Clover/Social Club could fill this role in theory, but again, it depends on the direction the PC owner decides to go with it.

... This could probably stand to be a whole other thread, really.
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susitsu
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Re: Reward Change

Post by susitsu » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:24 pm

This thread was actually a salty Suggestion post that got moved to Feedback within minutes, so the whole point of discussion is entirely up in the air.

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Re: Reward Change

Post by PinataPlethora » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:33 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:If we were going to start pushing for a system that ostracizes characters from the get-go, I think Cordor would need to have more of an NPC-supported shady underbelly than it currently does, because while the setting is important, so is the ability to have fun, and if you make a character, immediately get pushed out of normal society, and then have nowhere that you can take your pitiful beginner self... that's no fun.
I vaguely recall Irongron mentioning intent to expand Cordor's seedy areas, but it'll probably take a while.

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Re: Reward Change

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:43 pm

susitsu wrote:I thought the issue being made was about tieflings looking too monstrous for 3.5/people's taste (half-fiend reference, though such a thing would really call for something ike and big bat wings, not the simple stuff our tieflings have,) not people avoiding the rp of their race.

This took an odd turn.
This is really going to become more of an issue as time goes on, and 3.5 gets more and more relegated as "old school"/"hard to learn about."
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Barradoor » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:51 pm

susitsu wrote:This thread was actually a salty Suggestion post that got moved to Feedback within minutes, so the whole point of discussion is entirely up in the air.


no i put it in feedback
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The Salt Elemental
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Re: Reward Change

Post by The Salt Elemental » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:56 pm

Tieflings differ in many different ways and there are plenty of examples with tieflings with blue or red skin, horns, and a tail. Literally loads. Blue tieflings tend to descend from night bags or blue devils. Red ones are just common in color. Heck there are tieflings sired by beshaba that have freaking deer antlers and white hair. That’s crazier than red skin in my opinion. I think the team shouldn’t take artistic license away. You got a greater (I guess now five percent). You earned a reward. You should be allowed to make it into what you want. I don’t think it’s fair to dictate so harshly on looks because essentially, it’s their character and their 5%. As long as they keep within d and d parameters it should be fine.

Somehow, I can’t help but feel that there are some uneccesary upset feelings towards 5% characters. I do not mean to use you as an examples, azaria, but she is literally a half-silver dragon. She really should’ve been treated somewhere like an aasimar. But she was treated like a tiefling instead. I really think there needs to be some chill when it comes to 5%s. They’re going to be special. Because it’s their chance to make that characrer they’ve always wanted to make. Whether that be a tiefling with red skin and a tail or a half dragon with silver wings. Sorry for typos on my phone.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Reward Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:42 pm

Iceborn wrote: Adding an outsider to the template doesn't make it inherently better
It really does, as it turns any race into a +6 stat race vs +4. It's a huge upgrade on orcs and better then human.
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Iceborn
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Iceborn » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:
Iceborn wrote: Adding an outsider to the template doesn't make it inherently better
It really does, as it turns any race into a +6 stat race vs +4. It's a huge upgrade on orcs and better then human.
From a mechanical point of view, I'm talking about RP here.
Though I'm not fan of the Bloodlines.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
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Class Mechanics
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Take a look before asking your questions!

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Reward Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
BegoneThoth wrote:Just force a description. It's a reward race with bonus stats. Just force those extra-planar characteristics in the description. If you get ostracized by normal people, good, it's what you signed up for and what the setting demands.
If we were going to start pushing for a system that ostracizes characters from the get-go, I think Cordor would need to have more of an NPC-supported shady underbelly than it currently does, because while the setting is important, so is the ability to have fun, and if you make a character, immediately get pushed out of normal society, and then have nowhere that you can take your pitiful beginner self... that's no fun.

Frankly, I think Cordor could use more support for underworld-type characters anyways. As it stands, yeah, there's the occasional shady group that pops up, but it's entirely player-driven. There's no real infrastructure there for low-level characters - no fence, no rogue-centric quarters. The Fool's Clover/Social Club could fill this role in theory, but again, it depends on the direction the PC owner decides to go with it.

... This could probably stand to be a whole other thread, really.
Yes, but I think it cordor would be better served by having two districts and two chancellors, so one half can be shifty as hell and the other can be not shifty.

Either way a lot of this tiefling stuff wouldn't matter if they just wernt mechanically the best possible race for any build barring some niches. Even at their absolute worst they are at least up two con vs other options, and due to being able to just hide and not really rp being a devil spawn, no actual downside.
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Ork
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Ork » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:58 pm

No downside? I'm beginning to think this is less about roleplay and more about jealousy.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Reward Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:30 pm

If I wanted one I'd have just made a humility goblin druid and ground them out.

But I really don't want to play banish bait and couldn't help myself but to use an unnatural skin tone as a give away.

I thought about doing a dual wielding orc str spellsword (when they had 4apr) but opted to not use my reward there because I think grinding out greater rewards for a flat stat bonus is the problem, and generally don't like solving problems by becoming part of it. Additionally after crunching the numbers the build would have ended up in degenerate territory of strength.

But no, it's not about jealousy, it's about cheeseing a special race just for +2 stats and race feats.
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Thanatosis
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Thanatosis » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 pm

If they're so OP and grrr, not good why are you mad that they're gone, am I missing something
BegoneThoth wrote:Hardcore player here

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Reward Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:52 pm

They aren't gone? Harder to make but it's still a reward that you can grind for that makes you mechanically superior to those that didn't grind it out, and should not be that way.
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:18 pm

BegoneThoth wrote:They aren't gone? Harder to make but it's still a reward that you can grind for that makes you mechanically superior to those that didn't grind it out, and should not be that way.
The alternative is you gate it behind RPR. But no one likes that. So special races will always be greater likelihood for those with more time/patience/etc. You have to give that section of the playerbase something.

But a lot of this discussion could have been averted if planetouched were originally Greater Rewards. They weren't, but they are now. So we really should see them dialed down a lot.
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Thanatosis
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Thanatosis » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:28 pm

They're behind a 5%. You can grind and grind and grind and maybe get a tiefling, or with the same award you can get a vampire, or literally anything else.
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Xanos950
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Xanos950 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:12 pm

Weird thing is how tiefling/aasimar are considered an "Uncommon" race in FR but are given the "Very Rare" 5% treatment now.

When you can be literally anything else... i mean... heck, you CAN be a literal half-demon or half-devil with a 5%, why would you even fall back to playing a normal planetouched?

It feels like it doesn't belong into the 5% Ikea-Build-Your-Own-Snowflake territory.

And yes i'm envious (not jealous) as hell now that a greater reward isn't enough anymore.

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Cortex
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Cortex » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:17 pm

The irony is that a lot of mechanic savvy people I know did NOT take planetouched because they didn't think the dismissal/banishment vulnerability was worth it.
:)

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Re: Reward Change

Post by Nitro » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:03 am

BegoneThoth wrote:They aren't gone? Harder to make but it's still a reward that you can grind for that makes you mechanically superior to those that didn't grind it out, and should not be that way.
Let's not pretend tieflings are even remotely close to the more powerful things on the 5% tier.

*eyes dragons*

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Reward Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:07 am

You can 5% a dragon PC?
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Cortex
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Cortex » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:09 am

Not anymore, but they were ridiculously overpowered.
:)

Nitro
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Nitro » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:22 am

Well, you can still request any race on the 5% tier, subject to Admin approval, but they're not a part of the automatic system like they used to be, no.

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Re: Reward Change

Post by RedGiant » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:06 am

I think the Tiefling thing could be put back in the box and artistic license allowed...

...hear me out here...

IF, IF, IF

...we placed them in the category of monstrous race where they surely belong, subjecting them to all that that means on Arelith.

What makes me hate them currently is that we place things as mundane as kobolds and duergar in a special pariah category ('underdarker'...whatever that means), even posting ubiquitous signage regarding them, while Tieflings can tea and crumpet it up in the middle of Cordor.
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Re: Reward Change

Post by MissEvelyn » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:32 am

The problem with the 5% rolls is that anyone can get that these days, especially with the gold inventory value added. It's not really 5% anymore, when you can up the chances to get something better.

If we really cared about making 5% something really rare, then it should be moved to level 30 and a requirement of having had the character for at least X amount of real life years, and been logged in at least xx amount of ticks. Replace X with whatever the devs feel should truly be 5% rare.
Not to mention the bonus from wealth shouldn't count when rolling for a Major Reward.

Then, they could focus on making Greater Rewards great but not completely ridiculous, like the dragon race, and leave the 5% epicness for the lucky ones.


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Xanos950
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Re: Reward Change

Post by Xanos950 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:02 am

Did somebody say "Make Greater Rewards Great Again" ?

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