Examine: Race/sub

[One Two Three Five]

how do you know how many tieflings there are if you don't know when you see one
Also maybe don't with the personal IC stuff, huh?

[BegoneThoth]

Because I did a lot of guard work which involved handling a lot of skulls and corpses with Salt Elemental, which showed a lot of planetouched.

[PinataPlethora]

Because I did a lot of guard work which involved handling a lot of skulls and corpses with Salt Elemental, which showed a lot of planetouched.

Hmm...

Sounds like those skulls and corpses were getting along really well with other folks.

[BegoneThoth]

Because I did a lot of guard work which involved handling a lot of skulls and corpses with Salt Elemental, which showed a lot of planetouched.

Hmm...

Sounds like those skulls and corpses were getting along really well with other folks.

It was all over the place race-wise, not just from arrests/crimes, we collected bodies people just turned in from gods-knows-where for resurrection or whatever. But I saw a lot more then you'd think, few, if any, having any mention of it in the bio.

Just from personal experience, there are a lot of them.

[The Salt Elemental]

As of right now, tieflings are not, and likely will not ever be, fully accepted into society. Playing a tiefling who does live in Cordor, my own character still suffers the animosity and hatred of humans that often tieflings live through. I did not start out in Andunor, because I wanted this experience. Racism (Or biggotry as we will call it) is a very prominent thing/topic in forgotten realms. Elves sneer at lessers, dwarves hate everyone but their own, etc etc.

Arn't you the cordor guard commander? I know you were for a while.

Hard to argue that tieflings are not accepted when one has such a position.

Other cities as well have a lot of tieflings in government.

The negative social aspects of the race are simply not present in the world, and the few that are have been supremely diminished by the sheer number of tieflings, and the inability to know you're in a room with some.

I think it's honestly detrimental to the setting to have so many, and that they are treated almost the same as every non-human, if anyone even knows.

Edit; This post is not in anyway a negative post nor am I implying anyone is doing anything wrong or incorrect.

Nope. Not the commander anymore. I, personally, oocly and icly rejected the offer for personal reasons and because I thought it was a bit silly to be in that position with what she is. I hate to say this, but many don't see all the aspects of rp when it comes to a tiefling. They see one side, the side they experience. You may not see it, but that hatred is very much there and it is very much prominant.

Furthermore, no other teiflings are in government as far as I am aware. Not even in Andunor. No tiefling is currently making decisions for any settlements and, in fact, are actually banned from one settlement in particular.

[BegoneThoth]

As of right now, tieflings are not, and likely will not ever be, fully accepted into society. Playing a tiefling who does live in Cordor, my own character still suffers the animosity and hatred of humans that often tieflings live through. I did not start out in Andunor, because I wanted this experience. Racism (Or biggotry as we will call it) is a very prominent thing/topic in forgotten realms. Elves sneer at lessers, dwarves hate everyone but their own, etc etc.

Arn't you the cordor guard commander? I know you were for a while.

Hard to argue that tieflings are not accepted when one has such a position.

Other cities as well have a lot of tieflings in government.

The negative social aspects of the race are simply not present in the world, and the few that are have been supremely diminished by the sheer number of tieflings, and the inability to know you're in a room with some.

I think it's honestly detrimental to the setting to have so many, and that they are treated almost the same as every non-human, if anyone even knows.

Edit; This post is not in anyway a negative post nor am I implying anyone is doing anything wrong or incorrect.

Nope. Not the commander anymore. I, personally, oocly and icly rejected the offer for personal reasons and because I thought it was a bit silly to be in that position with what she is. I hate to say this, but many don't see all the aspects of rp when it comes to a tiefling. They see one side, the side they experience. You may not see it, but that hatred is very much there and it is very much prominant.

Furthermore, no other teiflings are in government as far as I am aware. Not even in Andunor. No tiefling is currently making decisions for any settlements and, in fact, are actually banned from one settlement in particular.

My mistake then. Treat my comments then as referencing the past-tense.

[The Salt Elemental]

In light of feedback, I'd like to say that I don't personally think it's okay to play a tiefling and /not/ play out the planar blood. If you make a tiefling that looks exactly human with no aspects of being a tiefling, I feel like this is borderline rulebreaking. Not acknowledging that rp at all is- really it's not cool. It's playing a human with an unfair racial advantage that you do not rp. I was not aware that characters like this existed.

This- this is not cool. If you want the bonuses you get from being a tiefling then play out the blood. If you don't want to deal with the ic hatred your character will recieve as a tiefling- play an aasimar. Same bonuses, different name, and you get love instead of hate.

[Freyason]

4) Only proper favored enemy rangers/elves with enough lore can ID Gray Dwarves and Drow. Drow and duergar can ID members of their own subrace.

Does this work the other way as well?

Only proper favored enemy rangers/drow with enough lore can ID Gold/Shield dwarves and surface elves?

[PinataPlethora]

If you make a tiefling that looks exactly human with no aspects of being a tiefling, I feel like this is borderline rulebreaking.

It's not.

It is actual rulebreaking. You must RP what's on your character sheet. If it says Tiefling, you RP it or get slapped. The chances of getting caught are probably extremely low, because DM time is limited, but it's still a gamble.

On the other hand, I don't really care all that much if someone wants to take a planetouched race and then pile on more gifts for a few small mechanical advantages. I'm far more concerned with ensuring a good experience for those who actually want to RP it.

[One Two Three Five]

maybe keep the decisions on what constitutes rulebreaking to the dms since no one sees everyone's activity all the time and this is how shadow rules get started anyway

That said, be nice to know how monster-y one can go with a tiefer nowdays.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

maybe keep the decisions on what constitutes rulebreaking to the dms since no one sees everyone's activity all the time and this is how shadow rules get started anyway

That said, be nice to know how monster-y one can go with a tiefer nowdays.

I know there's been descriptions of tails? You'd never see that 5+ RL years ago. Horns were just as rare. A character named Jhenneth was a tiefer and she had no shadow. That was her "trait" - and I was so FRWIKI ignorant at the time I had no idea this was a tiefling thing.

The big problem is contemporary popular media portrayals of tieflings (Critical Role, and etc.) are at odds with traditional perceptions of the Arelith planarbloods. Even playing planetouched in NWN2 was seemingly at odds with how Arelith goes.

Also, can't tieflings look exactly like humans? Aasimar can look exactly like humans. But they might have a weird voice, or otherwise. I played one.

The problem, I suppose, is just that. It's been changed now (thanks Morderon) but I guess there's a total desync in how 3.0/3.5 treats planartouched, and how "examine/lore" ASSUMES all planarbloods have physical manifestations of lineage, when the Written Word is contrary.

(Genasi are another one. If you sweat mud, but your character isn't sweating, an onlooker would literally have no idea you're an Earth Genasi.)

edit: furthermore, isn't playing a planartouched that DOESN'T look human a riskier subject matter because we're starting to breach the territory of "maybe you have more than just one drop of extraplanar blood that's derived from seven generations ago"?

[One Two Three Five]

This is one of those cases where being stuck two editions back visual-and-lorewise is going to continually mess us up. It's gonna get worse with EE: The D&D/WOTC twitter is supporting Beamdog with this, and there's not too many 3rd Edition D&D holdouts that haven't moved on to Pathfinder, Fate, Savage Worlds, or just given up and moved up to 5th edition-

And the people getting pulled in to NWN from 'modern' D&D sources are coming from a lore set that is similar but not enough to not cause dissonance on both sides. See: 5E's Base Race Tieflings and Drow, God Changes, some setting streamlining, etc etc. Hell, it showed up in this thread.

I wonder if some of these problems we're running up to- how x thing looks, what gods exist, etc, might be addressed by carefully hybridizing some of the newer stuff- but, man, having done some setting conversions for tabletop games (A lot of FR is bad and needs thrown out and replaced), that's a huge, huge ask. Maybe a community project to compile as 'Arelith Edition Specific' info as possible?

[Cataclysm of Iron]

In light of feedback, I'd like to say that I don't personally think it's okay to play a tiefling and /not/ play out the planar blood. If you make a tiefling that looks exactly human with no aspects of being a tiefling, I feel like this is borderline rulebreaking. Not acknowledging that rp at all is- really it's not cool. It's playing a human with an unfair racial advantage that you do not rp. I was not aware that characters like this existed.

This- this is not cool. If you want the bonuses you get from being a tiefling then play out the blood. If you don't want to deal with the ic hatred your character will recieve as a tiefling- play an aasimar. Same bonuses, different name, and you get love instead of hate.

[The Salt Elemental]

maybe keep the decisions on what constitutes rulebreaking to the dms since no one sees everyone's activity all the time and this is how shadow rules get started anyway

That said, be nice to know how monster-y one can go with a tiefer nowdays.

Greater reward: Skin, rp able attributes like no shadow or weird eyes or weird claws, and horn or tail. Cannot have both tail and horns. Choose one or the other.

5% Tiefer: Go flipping crazy. Godspawn, wings, tail, horns, etc etc etc.

[The Salt Elemental]

If you make a tiefling that looks exactly human with no aspects of being a tiefling, I feel like this is borderline rulebreaking.

It's not.

It is actual rulebreaking. You must RP what's on your character sheet. If it says Tiefling, you RP it or get slapped. The chances of getting caught are probably extremely low, because DM time is limited, but it's still a gamble.

Oh. Well I'm happy this is a thing. I feel like it should be like this.

[DirtyDeity]

The point is that the effects of being a Tiefling or Aasimar do NOT have to be physical.

Planetouched races CAN be exactly similar to humans and with NO physical attributes, and playing one like that is NOT rule-breaking.

The manifestation of demonic and devilish blood can express itself in many different ways, and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM is more interesting that 'heh, my character has horns'.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

The point is that the effects of being a Tiefling or Aasimar do NOT have to be physical.

Planetouched races CAN be exactly similar to humans and with NO physical attributes, and playing one like that is NOT rule-breaking.

The manifestation of demonic and devilish blood can express itself in many different ways, and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM is more interesting that 'heh, my character has horns'.

For my money (having no importance at all beyond being a player) I don’t especially care about how prominent a tiefling’s characteristics are or aren’t. It’s not that I feel aggrieved about subtle tells or non-horned tieflings.

The thing I find distasteful is people who have it on their character sheet and use the fall-back of an invisible trait being plausible to have their character in no way different to a normal human except by the numbers on their sheet, because they are breaking the ‘Role Play’ rule in my view of it.

And most of the objections to the examination system in this thread have amounted to ‘but how will i be able to keep pretending my tiefling isn’t actually a tiefling?’.

[Septire]

And most of the objections to the examination system in this thread have amounted to ‘but how will i be able to keep pretending my tiefling isn’t actually a tiefling?’.

I feel like, at this point, this is just tantamount to bait. What is there left to discuss that hasn't been addressed in the last 8 pages or so? Did you read the part about stepping off the boat into Cordor at level 2 and being tiefling-spotted?

?

If you can come up with a solution to that problem, that would be helpful.

[Liareth]

And most of the objections to the examination system in this thread have amounted to ‘but how will i be able to keep pretending my tiefling isn’t actually a tiefling?’.

I don't think anybody in this thread has said anything like that. To claim otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse. It's not all about horns and a tail; some players prefer to be more subtle when playing unique characters. A system that openly screams "look, it's a tiefling" even though there are no visible physical traits undermines that approach. Systems should support players, not act as an obstacle to them.

[Cybernet21]

I dont know why this is still going,the system tha is being talked about on this thread has already been changed so planetouched races dont appear and the lore check for the other races has been raised.

So the only aspect that is remaining is so that we can differentiate a few races that before were hard because of NWN graphics(Half-Orcs and Orogs as an example),and by far from what i've seen we all agree that is the good aspect of the system.I dont see why we should still be discussing on a aspect that doesnt exist anymore,the feedback has already been given.

[PinataPlethora]

I dont know why this is still going[...]

To quote an old moderator.

You guys will argue about anything.

[BegoneThoth]

I dont know why this is still going,the system tha is being talked about on this thread has already been changed so planetouched races dont appear and the lore check for the other races has been raised.

So the only aspect that is remaining is so that we can differentiate a few races that before were hard because of NWN graphics(Half-Orcs and Orogs as an example),and by far from what i've seen we all agree that is the good aspect of the system.I dont see why we should still be discussing on a aspect that doesnt exist anymore,the feedback has already been given.

Because there are still things worth discussing, here.

[The GrumpyCat]

DM Clarification:

It is actual rulebreaking. You must RP what's on your character sheet. If it says Tiefling, you RP it or get slapped. The chances of getting caught are probably extremely low, because DM time is limited, but it's still a gamble.

I would expect a planetouched character to express their bloodline in some way, but by no means does that have to be obvious or physical.

Not expressing it in any way at all isn't 'against the rules' so much as it's poor roleplay. It's unlikely to get you banned from the server, but it may be reflected in RPR rating.

But it does seem that this thread is winding down to a close, which is probably good.

[MalKalz]

maybe keep the decisions on what constitutes rulebreaking to the dms since no one sees everyone's activity all the time and this is how shadow rules get started anyway

That said, be nice to know how monster-y one can go with a tiefer nowdays.

Greater reward: Skin, rp able attributes like no shadow or weird eyes or weird claws, and horn or tail. Cannot have both tail and horns. Choose one or the other.

5% Tiefer: Go flipping crazy. Godspawn, wings, tail, horns, etc etc etc.

Highlighted the above. This is incorrect.

A Tiefling can display one to two traits. If horns and a tail are it, accept that you will be further treated as monstrous, but rock it. Be creative with your concepts.

Tieflings look Human except for one or two distinguishing features related to their unusual ancestor. Some examples of these features (and the ancestors that cause them) are:

small horns on the head (demon, devil, night hag)
fangs or pointed teeth
forked tongue (demon, devil)
glowing red eyes (demon, devil, night hag)
cat eyes (rakshasa)
more or less than 5 fingers (demon, devil)
goatlike legs (devil)
hooves (devil)
non-prehensile tail (demon, devil)
furry, leathery, or scaly skin (demon, devil, rakshasa)
red skin (demon, devil)
bruised blue skin (night hag)
casts no shadow (demon, devil)
throws no reflection (demon, devil)
skin is hot to the touch (demon, devil)
smell of brimstone (demon, devil)

[Sab1]

Sort of confused on what the point of the system is now if things are exempt. Seems to ruin the purpose of the system.