Large Weapons! Do they suck?
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Large Weapons! Do they suck?
As the title says.
Two handing a large weapon - or a medium weapon with a small character - seems something that has always seem... underwhelming to me.
You are giving up a shield. A SHIELD. That in the game is in most cases a free glorious +6 AC (or even more), for +2 AB and a little of damage (half of your str modifier)
This does not seem equitable to me. It seems that the best option is to always use one-handed weapons. You can even dual wield them with the proper feats and still change to a shield - but the same cannot be done with a large weapon. Obviously you can equip the shield, but you need to change your weapon, easily losing 5 of AB.
Back in the days when I was playing in Amia, I remember the server used a mythal system that allowed one to customize weapons. Two-handed weapons, simply, had a greater power limit than one handed. For example.
Sorry about the lazy argument. I'm out of time. I'll polish it more when I get back.
Two handing a large weapon - or a medium weapon with a small character - seems something that has always seem... underwhelming to me.
You are giving up a shield. A SHIELD. That in the game is in most cases a free glorious +6 AC (or even more), for +2 AB and a little of damage (half of your str modifier)
This does not seem equitable to me. It seems that the best option is to always use one-handed weapons. You can even dual wield them with the proper feats and still change to a shield - but the same cannot be done with a large weapon. Obviously you can equip the shield, but you need to change your weapon, easily losing 5 of AB.
Back in the days when I was playing in Amia, I remember the server used a mythal system that allowed one to customize weapons. Two-handed weapons, simply, had a greater power limit than one handed. For example.
Sorry about the lazy argument. I'm out of time. I'll polish it more when I get back.
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
Orog Barb Fight BG ends up with good AC and divine shield, but gets 1.5x str 1.5x cha and some con to dmg, plus can use the orog sword and get free +1 ac.
So that build plows. Biggest loss of no shield isn't the ac it's the stats and slots you can't enchant due to missing one piece of equipment.
So that build plows. Biggest loss of no shield isn't the ac it's the stats and slots you can't enchant due to missing one piece of equipment.
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
Short answer: yeah pretty much
Long answer: Sort of. In builds where you can make up for the lack of a shield (quarterstaff monks, monk spellswords, ranger monks, that Orog build BegoneThoth mentioned) there's no reason not to TOTALLY KICKASS with Improved Disarm and do BIG DAMAGE. But stuff like greatsword WMs are going to just be inferior to their 1h/shield equivalents, because they don't have any way of recouping that 7 AC they're giving up, and the difference in offence is, while pretty big, not big enough to make it worth.
Long answer: Sort of. In builds where you can make up for the lack of a shield (quarterstaff monks, monk spellswords, ranger monks, that Orog build BegoneThoth mentioned) there's no reason not to TOTALLY KICKASS with Improved Disarm and do BIG DAMAGE. But stuff like greatsword WMs are going to just be inferior to their 1h/shield equivalents, because they don't have any way of recouping that 7 AC they're giving up, and the difference in offence is, while pretty big, not big enough to make it worth.
BegoneThoth wrote:Hardcore player here
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
Large weapons are fine for builds that are exploiting the fact that the weapon is large with disarm or KDs, or the above cases- where there's another AC source or you couldn't use a shield regardless (monks), or where you've got other defense (barb dr/temp hp).
They're less good when you roll something up like a fighter/WM greatsworder and lose a bunch of AC in exchange for a bit of damage. Which is ironic.
They're less good when you roll something up like a fighter/WM greatsworder and lose a bunch of AC in exchange for a bit of damage. Which is ironic.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
As I mentioned elsewhere, I do not think it would be out of ordinary for 2h to have their bonus damage increased to x1.5 those of 1h, much like the Divine Might bonus.
That would mean a Masterly Damask 2h would have 9 physical bonus damage, instead of 6.
I would assume the tricky part is doing this for weapons that are 1h for medium races but 2h for small races.
That would mean a Masterly Damask 2h would have 9 physical bonus damage, instead of 6.
I would assume the tricky part is doing this for weapons that are 1h for medium races but 2h for small races.
Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
When I was a noob I would exclusively use greatswords, because they're cool af. Being a 2-hander gets incredibly tiring tho, unless you're a super specific build or have a guard 24/7. Otherwise, you just get rekt way too fast.
I was very happy that Arelith did give 2h weapons +2ab, but they're still not really worth the hassle.
At the same time I've had ppl tell me "just take imp. expertise and pump ur con and you're totally fine in pve".
I was very happy that Arelith did give 2h weapons +2ab, but they're still not really worth the hassle.
At the same time I've had ppl tell me "just take imp. expertise and pump ur con and you're totally fine in pve".
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
I mean, if you're a frontliner without IE you're going to have a bad time shield or no.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
IMHO, the last thing that we need right now is more melee DPS. I agree that two-handed weapons do not seem to be worth it, but maybe we'll get some cool craftables that will even things out a bit eventually - some minor "on hit" AoE effects would be pretty cool for example.
Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
2h weapons are great on certain builds for PvP. Espescially kensai's.
Generally speaking you would PvE with a shield, unless you have a tank.
Generally speaking you would PvE with a shield, unless you have a tank.
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Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
My point was that even with it, you're still going to get rekt. Maybe not if you're fighting goblins, but anything in your range or higher. Rip.One Two Three Five wrote:I mean, if you're a frontliner without IE you're going to have a bad time shield or no.
Anyway I was just giving my input of 2h weapons, they still have great dps and plenty of uses. I'd much rather other more important things get improved first, like assassin. lel
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
It depends largely on what you're playing. Large weapons can easily fit into most melee builds, and just as easy ruin the build completely due to the lack of defense that you have mentioned.
Give a fitting build a large weapon and it's an entirely different story. CoT, barbarian, weapon master, blackguard or generally kensai characters can do really well with a greatsword. Halflings with scimitars are just as good, if not better considering scimitar has a bigger treat range. Scythe weaponmasters that deal 300~ damage on criticals are also not something that anyone should call bad. The problem lies in two things: inability to solo, and most of them being glass cannons. Barbarians can somewhat make up for the lack of defense due to their tankiness, but give a scythe to a weapon master and send him in first against a group of level 20 mobs as a level 30 and he'll pop like a cheery. It goes without saying that you have to put the two-handed guy on guard and let him go crazy, and in PvP apply either cheesy tactics or rely on your damage reduction as a barbarian. Not many players have patience for this, and I personally wouldn't play a two-hander considering it lacks the ability to solo most of the time.
Another big factor for any large weapon build is improved disarm which I have not seen many people use, perhaps out of lack of knowledge or for the best considering that nobody really wants to lose their weapon. Go with the self-rule that every weapon that you take you will return, and improve disarm can single handedly win you a fight.
To answer your question: Yes they are bad on builds that don't fit well with them, like clerics and bards. No they are not bad at all but instead really powerful on builds that are suitable for a two-hander, if the player knows what he is doing. If you are to give the two-handed any further buffs ( with the current situation that kensai, barbarians and CoT are in) it would make the play-style extremely powerful. Offense is the best defense in this situation, and that is something every two-hander should know.
Give a fitting build a large weapon and it's an entirely different story. CoT, barbarian, weapon master, blackguard or generally kensai characters can do really well with a greatsword. Halflings with scimitars are just as good, if not better considering scimitar has a bigger treat range. Scythe weaponmasters that deal 300~ damage on criticals are also not something that anyone should call bad. The problem lies in two things: inability to solo, and most of them being glass cannons. Barbarians can somewhat make up for the lack of defense due to their tankiness, but give a scythe to a weapon master and send him in first against a group of level 20 mobs as a level 30 and he'll pop like a cheery. It goes without saying that you have to put the two-handed guy on guard and let him go crazy, and in PvP apply either cheesy tactics or rely on your damage reduction as a barbarian. Not many players have patience for this, and I personally wouldn't play a two-hander considering it lacks the ability to solo most of the time.
Another big factor for any large weapon build is improved disarm which I have not seen many people use, perhaps out of lack of knowledge or for the best considering that nobody really wants to lose their weapon. Go with the self-rule that every weapon that you take you will return, and improve disarm can single handedly win you a fight.
To answer your question: Yes they are bad on builds that don't fit well with them, like clerics and bards. No they are not bad at all but instead really powerful on builds that are suitable for a two-hander, if the player knows what he is doing. If you are to give the two-handed any further buffs ( with the current situation that kensai, barbarians and CoT are in) it would make the play-style extremely powerful. Offense is the best defense in this situation, and that is something every two-hander should know.
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Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
tl;dr: No, they don't suck.
They're niche, but a staple in some builds.
They're niche, but a staple in some builds.
Re: Large Weapons! Do they suck?
Yes.
but i use them because they Look Cool,
or because my RP idea has one.
but i use them because they Look Cool,
or because my RP idea has one.