Warlock Feedback

[telmarael]

Please, lets quit bishing around II and be constructive. To many threads are being locked because of such behaviour... And a comment on spell list review I've posted would be appreciated (you've not been here for a month, why rush for that old dispute about a single skill that has to do -only- with quality of life?

Edit: by the way, all the warlocks are initially supposed to be capable of cursing the adversary, each warlock for a slightly different effect. In my prev. post I've left an open spell slot on lvl19, where bestow curse can be put. That's actually the spell that can be directly modified to add some 'flavour' to each of paths. On cooldown, perhaps, but carrying some potent, unique effect.

[Baron Saturday]

Really was not my intent to revive a dead thread when I sent you that link, but sure... why not?

Charm person ---> Protection from alignment
Sleep ---> Lesser Dispell (Cause why not?)
Cloud of bewilderment ---> Confusion. allows the build to come online a lot faster in leveling, and serves as an answer to fiendlock summons.
Summon shadow ---> dominate person
Sound burst ---> silence
lvl20 - magic circle against alignment
Dirge ---> wounding whispers (that would actually be something unique for feylock, compared to the other subpath, along with mindfog)
Shadow shield ---> mass haste. Why? Because 3lvl BG dip is too aluring, giving many, very very many benifits at a negligible cost. That would give a decent enough reason to consider going feylock 30
Worth noticing that all the spells are from bard's initial spellbook - no need tinkering too much
Thank you for the attention of any was given

* Protection from Alignment - Frankly I'd quite like this, both because it gives your potential party some resistance from the mind spells you're flinging, and because I actively dislike Charm Person.
* Lesser Dispel - I feel like this would be a nerf? Sleep is a Feylock's bread-and-butter AoE disable at low levels. Not terribly reliable, but it's SOMETHING. If anything was gonna get replaces by Lesser Dispel, let it be Tasha's Hideous Laughter.
* Confusion - An AoE save-or-die spell at level 11 is a bit much. Cloud of Bewilderment already sort of fills that role, but with a number of key weaknesses.
* Dominate Person - I'd rather Summon Shadow be fixed to scale correctly than get Dominate Person two levels earlier.
* Silence - Keep your grubby little fingers off my Sound Burst, I love that spell. There's also some pretty major PvP ramifications for this, but as I'm not an expert on that, I'll leave it to others to comment.
* Magic Circle Against Alignment - I kinda like this one, for the same reasons as PfA.
* Wounding Whispers - Giving an often tankily-build infinicaster that typically reaches 500-600 HP with 9/- DR and 20% DI a damage shield is a bad idea. It is also a reversion of a prior change - they had it for a grand total of 5 days, and then it was taken away. Additionally, Dirge might actually see some use with the release of EE and the fix of the mobile AoE bug.
* Mass Haste - One of the major components of the Feylock nerf was removing their ability to haste their whole party by getting rid of Mass Haste and nerfing Haste so they could only cast it on themself and one other person. Many a hoop was jumped through to accomplish this. Giving them Mass Haste back completely undermines that, and is... unlikely to happen, to say the least.

Lastly, in regards to Improved Invis, I could see giving it to them at level 20 as a counterpoint to the Fiendlock's Blindness/Deafness, possibly with the same restrictions as Haste. Let them keep Invis/Displacement for fans of that combo.

[Kalopsia]

Really was not my intent to revive a dead thread when I sent you that link, but sure... why not?

Charm person ---> Protection from alignment
Sleep ---> Lesser Dispell (Cause why not?)
Cloud of bewilderment ---> Confusion. allows the build to come online a lot faster in leveling, and serves as an answer to fiendlock summons.
Summon shadow ---> dominate person
Sound burst ---> silence
lvl20 - magic circle against alignment
Dirge ---> wounding whispers (that would actually be something unique for feylock, compared to the other subpath, along with mindfog)
Shadow shield ---> mass haste. Why? Because 3lvl BG dip is too aluring, giving many, very very many benifits at a negligible cost. That would give a decent enough reason to consider going feylock 30
Worth noticing that all the spells are from bard's initial spellbook - no need tinkering too much
Thank you for the attention of any was given

* Protection from Alignment - Frankly I'd quite like this, both because it gives your potential party some resistance from the mind spells you're flinging, and because I actively dislike Charm Person.
* Lesser Dispel - I feel like this would be a nerf? Sleep is a Feylock's bread-and-butter AoE disable at low levels. Not terribly reliable, but it's SOMETHING. If anything was gonna get replaces by Lesser Dispel, let it be Tasha's Hideous Laughter.
* Confusion - An AoE save-or-die spell at level 11 is a bit much. Cloud of Bewilderment already sort of fills that role, but with a number of key weaknesses.
* Dominate Person - I'd rather Summon Shadow be fixed to scale correctly than get Dominate Person two levels earlier.
* Silence - Keep your grubby little fingers off my Sound Burst, I love that spell. There's also some pretty major PvP ramifications for this, but as I'm not an expert on that, I'll leave it to others to comment.
* Magic Circle Against Alignment - I kinda like this one, for the same reasons as PfA.
* Wounding Whispers - Giving an often tankily-build infinicaster that typically reaches 500-600 HP with 9/- DR and 20% DI a damage shield is a bad idea. It is also a reversion of a prior change - they had it for a grand total of 5 days, and then it was taken away. Additionally, Dirge might actually see some use with the release of EE and the fix of the mobile AoE bug.
* Mass Haste - One of the major components of the Feylock nerf was removing their ability to haste their whole party by getting rid of Mass Haste and nerfing Haste so they could only cast it on themself and one other person. Many a hoop was jumped through to accomplish this. Giving them Mass Haste back completely undermines that, and is... unlikely to happen, to say the least.

Lastly, in regards to Improved Invis, I could see giving it to them at level 20 as a counterpoint to the Fiendlock's Blindness/Deafness, possibly with the same restrictions as Haste. Let them keep Invis/Displacement for fans of that combo.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter remains useful until you have access to Hold Monster.
It may not be too long-lasting or have the greatest DC, but it equals +4AB for party members, deals full eldrich damage and works race-independent (unlike Hold Person). With Extend Spell the duration is actually quite acceptable - and long enough to simultaneously damage and control up to four foes at the same time.

[Baron Saturday]

Tasha's Hideous Laughter remains useful until you have access to Hold Monster.
It may not be too long-lasting or have the greatest DC, but it equals +4AB for party members, deals full eldrich damage and works race-independent (unlike Hold Person). With Extend Spell the duration is actually quite acceptable - and long enough to simultaneously damage and control up to four foes at the same time.

I mentioned it because it's probably the least useful of the Feylock spells, but I'm not a huge advocated for getting rid of it (or anything, really) in favor of Lesser Dispel.

[telmarael]

Really was not my intent to revive a dead thread when I sent you that link, but sure... why not?

My b
Problem with it is: feylock, even by just looking at the spell list, just gets the leftovers from the bard spellbook that fiendlock didn't get, and often they look exactly like fillers (same effect spells charms, hold etc). My point was about making it right. Who said that a warlock class can't share more similar spells between the two different paths? And the thing about curse - they are all supposed to be able to curse. Shadows... Well, fixing AI is one of the most difficult parts, always, so getting rid of a gimmicky spell that is hard to fix in favor of the same bestow curse doesn't seem like an all too bad decision.

Wounding whispers: didn't know that was the thing before. Totally agree with you then.

[JediMindTrix]

Warlock should be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch with haks in EE.