Good aligned monster races.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Like, of course we devolve into drow lore and mechanical discussions.

Personally, one snowflake is all it takes to ruin it. Good aligned monster reward shouldn't exist, but I'd argue for different reasons than the OP.

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

[RedGiant]

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Because nothing weird ever happens at a Wizard's Tower...

[I Don~t Feel Like Dancing]

For me, the greatest challenge while playing a good-aligned drow on the surface was to find RP before dawn - as otherwise I’d be stuck in a cave, forced to waste a lens or afk for over one RL hour.

Daylight is an issue that can be dealt with. But the inability to contact players is a huge problem.

This has been the most troublesome part of the experience as I've seen it. Life in the UD as a good monster is actually quite appealing to me, pursuing the angle of the renegade idealist who fights those in power.

The real trouble is contact. Good aligned monster characters will, despite being monsters, be drawn to work with people who are not casually binding fiends into service or raising the dead to undeath. While there is a wealth of confrontational RP to be had with other UD'ers, there are far fewer characters who would be fitting as the long term allies of a good-aligned character in the UD (Which makes sense, the baddest of the bad go to the UD!).

This is understandable as part of the challenge tied to the concept, but is also the reasonable motivation for many good-aligned monsters to attempt cultivating surface contacts/allies where they believe they can do so safely.

I believe that the IC hardships tied to this form of character are enjoyable, and add to the immersion of playing an outcast among outcasts, but I also feel that there are certain OOC inconveniences tied to engaging in RP with characters active on the surface with the limitations to communication Kalopsia outlined.

One of my favorite features of the server are Speedy Messengers (and Goblin Runners!), as a means of facilitating RP where finding a character to interact with would otherwise be improbable. This is a godsend for players who only have a limited amount of time to play in the evening, as it allows them to skip spending most of their online time looking for someone to interact with and jump straight into roleplay.

The addition of a few more Speedies, or perhaps a similar messenger service less picky about its clientele, scattered into reasonable spots across the server would be amazing for more than just the RP of good-aligned monsters.

[Thanatosis]

Because nothing weird ever happens at a Wizard's Tower...

To call something that denigrates the integrity of the setting as simply "weird" is a lazy, weak excuse.

[Iceborn]

Like, of course we devolve into drow lore and mechanical discussions.

Personally, one snowflake is all it takes to ruin it. Good aligned monster reward shouldn't exist, but I'd argue for different reasons than the OP.

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Trying to play with a monster character in the surface was a challenge by all means.
It was incredibly restrictive, and -every- single character had something to say about it. There was nobody that didn't have something to weigh in the matter, and this is fine.

Just the same, it was the highlight of the roleplay of my last character, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the conflict, even if it wasn't without its frustrations. The Tower was a great facilitator to allow this kind of roleplay, which characters had their own mixed views on the situation. Some were in accordance, some were utterly against it, but there was never such thing as an unilateral agreement on defending monster races.

If anything, it was all the contrary. It almost split the Tower in half.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Just gotta find your nitche'. Wharftown may be destroyed but Guldorand seems ready for a drow mayor.

[Xerah]

I had considered attempting to change my drow to a good one but watching the difficult time that Kalopsia has made me change my mind.

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Apparently you can tell us how awful it was as well as attacking the players of an entire faction. Well done!

[JediZero]

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Are you aware that there is a statue in the dueling grounds of former Archmages? The original founding members even.

One of which is a drow.

And I didn't put it there, the Tower faction, didn't put it there.

The Devs. Put. It. there.

<3

[InTheFlesh]

As long as good-aligned monsters don't base, say, near the areas where Outcasts aren't allowed to settle/own - I do like the idea of renegade monsters who are exiles and castoffs.

Maybe if enough people played them, the Devs would consider some far-flung area for them to handle their "basic needs".

[RedGiant]

To call something that denigrates the integrity of the setting as simply "weird" is a lazy, weak excuse.

Okay, I will take your troll-bait, Sir. I wasn't actually making an excuse, but I was pointing out that the concept of a Wizard's Tower has a rather broad range of possibilities, both in the forgotten realms and on this server. Setting integrity doesn't require the Arcane Tower to be Bendir south or fort elf sexy elven fun times. It could actually come to be dominated by Thayvians, or Cowled Wizards, or the Arcane Brotherhood, or some yet-unrealized PC faction that takes it a radical different direction than what it has been.

None of this actually denigrates the integrity of the setting...at all. In truth, with the way the Arcane Tower is set up (as opposed to say Thoramind's Tower inside a major walled settlement) I would actually expect it to be something of a nexus for weirdness (yes, I'm using that word again). And this isn't just a metaphorical nexus, since the Tower is also a major literal nexus of planar travel.

"Musn't be afraid to dream a little larger..."
-Inception

Edit: What JediZero said...
Edit Edit: DO THE FORUMS ACTUALLY AUTO TRANSLATE ELF E-R-P?!?!? The conspiracy goes deeper than we thought...

[Scurvy Cur]

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Are you aware that there is a statue in the dueling grounds of former Archmages? The original founding members even.

One of which is a drow.

And I didn't put it there, the Tower faction, didn't put it there.

The Devs. Put. It. there.

<3

"The original founding members" of the tower were from an older, much trashier age of Arelith RP where things like surface drow, mechanically unsupported subraces, and general bad RP were the rule rather than the exception. The fact that we used to be collectively really bad at RP is no excuse to continue being bad.

[Hunter548]

I can't tell you how awful it was playing a Tower mage and seeing literally everyone defend drow, imps, duergar, etc. It continues to piss me off to this day.

Are you aware that there is a statue in the dueling grounds of former Archmages? The original founding members even.

One of which is a drow.

And I didn't put it there, the Tower faction, didn't put it there.

The Devs. Put. It. there.

<3

Given that:
A) All of the statues were originally player made ~8ish years ago when Kathele got kicked out of the Tower, and were then moved to the Tower after someone wanted to do something else with the area around 5-6 years ago, and then made module-placed as a recognition of having been in the Tower for ages, as an entire group rather than any one individual mark of approval or disapproval
B) The character in question was something like 12 years ago, prior to the Amia split, back during the days when you had kobold paladins and beholders loitering on Aristotlus
C) The character in question got forced down to Udos anyways when all the other Underdarkers were moved down there (The old player-made statue actually mentioned this specifically, I assume the present one does too)

I don't think you can use the existence of that statue as an excuse to tolerate drow.

[JediZero]

Point I'm trying to make?

If anyplace on the island is likely to be willing to tolerate oddities, it's probably that big ol' tower that's got a bunch of weirdos in it that don't bathe enough and handle bat guano to try and get a hotter fireball.

There's been like *one*, that has been tolerated. And that was after months of tense RP and mistrust and even then we still don't let them hang around.

I've asked a DM before and they've said it's alright as long as we still are wary. They had more issue with there being people having cards from Myon saying 'I'm a good drow' and saying that was a reason that the Tower couldn't kick them out.

[TimeAdept]

Bring Back Yugo

[Orian_666]

I think that regardless of the conditions surrounding the history of the Tower and that character the fact of the matter is that it's happened in the past and it's one of the most likely places to happen now.
The Tower is full of fiercely intelligent mages (at least according to their numbers ) that meddle with powers and beings beyond the comprehension of most every day "adventurers". They deal with things, open their minds to things, and control things that would seem impossible to most without the knowledge or experience of it. Taking the time to partially trust a single Drow every now and then doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me when all things are considered.

[DM Always This Late]

A "Good" monster is a tough concept.

I think the choice of being a "Good Monster" is still a really valid route to take but can be challenging to navigate. To make it work I think you really need to consider why your monster is good. Using Drow as an example, what event in a Drows life would push them to abandon the normal inclinations in their blood?

One issue that could cause trouble is getting caught up in generalizations regarding good monsters, I would try to think as abstract as possible and really adopt a flexible view of what 'good' means in the context of being a monster race.

An example of a scenario I think of is like,

A Jaluk Drow who is good aligned but serves a Lolthite house not because he follows Lolth but because he is in love with a drowess. The main plot revolves around the Jaluk trying to turn the drowess from Lolth while also maintaining his position within the Lolthite house so that he can influence the drowess. While of course trying himself to not give into the evil and power that comes from his position.

Maybe over time the gentle nature and uncharacteristic kindness of the Jaluk wins the drowess over slowly turning her from her matron and Lolths grasp. This leads to them eventually leaving the Lolthite house but the Underdark becomes dangerous as the Lolthite matron is furious!

A side plot could have been the Jaluk working with a surface order, after years of sacrifice he earns their trust and when things go sideways in the UD he flees to the surface. with his newly converted drowess and joins with some surfacers to defeat the Lolthite and eventually return to the Underdark with the hope of saving more of their kin from the maw of madness that is Lolth.

I think the example like the one above sorta provides better perspective rather then just saying here's what you can do and here's what you can't because it is all situational.

So my advice would be to choose this reward carefully and have a really solid idea as to who your character is before you get involved with it.

And if anyone has a good monster now and wants to discuss concepts or ideas hit us up on discord or the forums! We're happy to help with concepts

[flower]

.....

There were many reasons why i shelved Brizshala.

First one was too deep de level i took, i found out how extremely boring it is going back so many levels doing the exact thing all over again.

And the constant arguing with other Eilistraeens about dogma, how to approach unknown persons, being blamed for things my character had no control over and my priest repeatedly told she is acting against will of Goddess.

While the latter were IC reasons, I had no interest in daily rping division, it got me frustrated, and game became unfun. When connected with that de-level it was deadly

I had been harsh on Nym here, but it is result of our endless discussions over this trough messenger. Each time he complained he has nothing to do i listed him number of things and he waved hand over it saying always some petty reason why not to.

He knows we never shunned him from our play and i even put down several offers how to make his character busy but each time he said soemthing along linies "i cannot play anyway because of study" then he goes to forum and calls for banning good aligned characters?

Oh yes, that made me shiver.

[Miskol]

I feel like it's important to note that drow can go into the sunlight? Just properly RP a little discomfort. Don't need to stall your RP and hide in a cave. Just have it reflected in your RP appropriately.

If you are caught actively out in sunlight, there is a chance you will take random magic damage from DMs lurking about to poke you back into your hidey hole.

[One Two Three Five]

This, uh, seems kind of like a thinly veiled personal argument that's spilled over to the forums, actually.

[rookie]

Maybe over time the gentle nature and uncharacteristic kindness of the Jaluk wins the drowess over slowly turning her from her matron and Lolths grasp. This leads to them eventually leaving the Lolthite house but the Underdark becomes dangerous as the Lolthite matron is furious!

My apologies if this has already been answered, but this brings up a point I've always been curious about.

Let's say the drowess starts as CE. Through the RP situation described it seems like there would be an alignment shift to let's say CN. Over time it they might be fully swayed towards good, but that requires a reward and you can't apply that to an existing character.

Opposite example of tempting a paladin to fall.

I'd be curious of the DMs' thoughts on this. I don't know if this is something that is judged case by case like a PrC request token or if it is in the "NOPE" category.

[DM Always This Late]

I would say no, because we do not want to invalidate a reward option. That would not be fair for others that rolled a character and used a reward only to have someone gain the same thing without a reward.

If you had a normal reward saved, and the story looked compelling I think we could discuss consuming said award and using it on an existing character

without the reward the situation would still work, and I think be even more compelling!

For example,

The drowess retains evil tendencies, perhaps she isn't"good" but she abandons Lolth and is no longer maniac style evil. good and evil can coexist especially when love is involved, so I could see said drowess retaining the evil alignment but roleplaying it toned down.

2. The drowess remains in an insane flux constantly struggling against evil tendencies and trying to live up to the standards of her mate.

So, that would be an example of how a relationship like that might work. I would even say the good Jaluk and semi evil drowess would be a lot more fun then double good, the conflict would be great!

I also think that to be with a good aligned character you do not necessarily have to be good, vice versa, unless you are getting into being a paladin or cleric then I'd want to hold you tighter to your alignment and Faith's ideals.

[Iceborn]

I have mixed feelings about that.

In one hand, I feel it's a detrimental limitation to the flow of roleplay. If a story leans in one direction, I'd hate if the mechanics were to get in the way and say "nope" just because I didn't think beforehand and pop an award in something that could have been for my character.

In the other, I don't want to see good monsters become commonplace. That'd get old very, very fast.

[Dreams]

The Tower has come such a long way.

[DM Always This Late]

I have mixed feelings about that.

In one hand, I feel it's a detrimental limitation to the flow of roleplay. If a story leans in one direction, I'd hate if the mechanics were to get in the way and say "nope" just because I didn't think beforehand and pop an award in something that could have been for my character.

In the other, I don't want to see good monsters become commonplace. That'd get old very, very fast.

If a case like that ever came up we could discuss it! That'd be as much as I could say for sure.

[rookie]

Thanks for the response on corruption/redemption. It is one of the things that can make me a bit sad in comparison to PnP, though for that you're required to have DM oversight in every interaction which is a big difference.