Survival

[One Two Three Five]

I'd love to see (though, know it's a bit of an ask) a like, reasoning behind it being kept, at this point. It feels like an artifact that's in out of momentum.

[BegoneThoth]

I like needing food and water, personally. While playing now it's easy to almost ignore, but my first character, every step into a dungeon basically meant one step back out I'd have to have the supplies for.

It was really cool, and I'd hate to rob new people of that.

[DM Always This Late]

I like the idea of increasing the number of areas that do not cause your foodand water levels to tick down

It is always annoying when. You are RPing maybe in a meeting or otherwise and you have to stop.to suck down 5 bottles of water before you die of dehydration in the middle of your own house... XD

But keeping the requirements for the wilderness and perhaps adding a more interactive system where water levels might decrease faster in the desert, or something similar could make food and water still relevant for adventuring but remove the primary annoyance that it is just a chore while trying to RP.

[Hesitation marks]

I like the idea of increasing the number of areas that do not cause your foodand water levels to tick down

Agree. "Dangerous areas" (e.g. places that can spawn hostile monsters/NPCs) should retain the food/water/rest loss, but all quarters should definitely be added to the list, as well as places like the Cordor theatres, Myon library, and perhaps the Hub.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I'd love the food/water/rest system to be expanded, because it allows for more design space for rangers, druids, and barbarians (the classes of the wild).

[BegoneThoth]

But keeping the requirements for the wilderness and perhaps adding a more interactive system where water levels might decrease faster in the desert, or something similar could make food and water still relevant for adventuring but remove the primary annoyance that it is just a chore while trying to RP.

I like that. I'd also like more no-teleport areas, so you can't just lens out and have to find your way out of difficult/maze-y locations.

[Cybernet21]

But keeping the requirements for the wilderness and perhaps adding a more interactive system where water levels might decrease faster in the desert, or something similar could make food and water still relevant for adventuring but remove the primary annoyance that it is just a chore while trying to RP.

I like that. I'd also like more no-teleport areas, so you can't just lens out and have to find your way out of difficult/maze-y locations.

That would be kinda annoying if something came up IRL and you had to log out really quickly,and you are too weak to traverse the area without a party

[BegoneThoth]

Well the idea would be to prepare ic and ooc for a walk through a place you can't just walk out of.

If stuff happens ooc that results in your death, I mean, I'm sorry, but challenging that kind of zone would create really interesting gameplay and RP, even if it's less accessible.

The lens is a free out to challenging areas. Think it would be really fun if there were places you couldn't just leave/rest for free, and had to make a Dark Souls style "do we keep going, are we low on supplies and spells, can we even get out from here, we can go one more floor down but it's five floors back up" decisions as you go each floor down.

Would make exploring mechanically engaging.

[Twily]

I like the idea of more dungeons without teleporting and maybe even resting, but something coming up IRL could definitely be an issue.

A possible compromise could be having some(not all) dungeons with no teleport/rest, but having a checkpoint or two throughout the dungeon; a little side area where you can rest/teleport/prepare for the next leg of the dungeon.

This would give a shorter and more reachable distance for those individuals who do have to leave spontaneously for whatever reason, without significantly dampening the challenge of it.

[Tarkus the dog]

I utterly hate the water/food system. The rest system is ok.

[BegoneThoth]

Naturally I didn't mean make every dungeon like that, but I think some of the harder dungeons and boss areas should just be like that.

[Astral]

I like the idea of more dungeons without teleporting and maybe even resting, but something coming up IRL could definitely be an issue.

A possible compromise could be having some(not all) dungeons with no teleport/rest, but having a checkpoint or two throughout the dungeon; a little side area where you can rest/teleport/prepare for the next leg of the dungeon.

This would give a shorter and more reachable distance for those individuals who do have to leave spontaneously for whatever reason, without significantly dampening the challenge of it.

While I agree that we should have more no-rest areas, making a no-teleport property more of a common thing in dungeons would have a negative impact on adventuring cause I think people should reserve the right to pop a lens and log out if something comes out RL. Sure, some places with no-teleport property exist but such places have a strong in game case for why they are this way.

I'd say food/water meters should go, for my own sake, as I don't feel affected by their presence - but on the other hand I got used to them and I admit I have no idea if it would damage immersion. If they help immersion for even 1/10 players (which they probably do, honestly) then they should stay, no big deal.

[Miskol]

I like the idea of more dungeons without teleporting and maybe even resting, but something coming up IRL could definitely be an issue.

A possible compromise could be having some(not all) dungeons with no teleport/rest, but having a checkpoint or two throughout the dungeon; a little side area where you can rest/teleport/prepare for the next leg of the dungeon.

This would give a shorter and more reachable distance for those individuals who do have to leave spontaneously for whatever reason, without significantly dampening the challenge of it.

To be serious though, I don't really see the point of having food and water decrease. I understand the need to rest, but to have someone start eating a full course meal during a conversation is ridiculous. If there needs to be RP about starving someone or withholding water from them, it doesn't need a mechanical enforcement in my opinion.

[Baseili]

Currently Food and Water is just a minor annoyance, while Rest actively punishes you from having it anywhere near the 40% mark. Throw in the rapid advancement of time on Arelith into the mix and you have a reciepe for weirdness (conversations that take 6 hours, meetings that last days).

Instead of gutting the system, I'd like to suggest making it a little more interesting.

1. Ease the reduction of the survival stats
As others have suggested, inns, taverns, meeting rooms and homes shouldn't cause drops or prevent you from resting up to 100%. Towns and such should only have minimal effects, weather permitting of course, leaving the wilderness to be as harsh or as gentle as seen fit.

2. Reward players for keeping their characters 'healthy'
Rather than just metres that cause mild annoyance if they drop below 0, why not apply a small boon to keeping the stats above 80%? Perhaps something like three hours of 80+ will grant you constant 1+ regen and a chance to regain a spell/ability each ingame hour (circle 1 - 4?). Granted, this would require separating refreshing spells and abilities from rest all together.

3. Food and drink quality and expiry
To prevent people just stacking up on travel provisions and calling it a day I'd like to introduce timed decay and quality on food/water items, something along the lines of:

Food

Questionable - Nothing you'd eat given the choice but anything beats starving. (found food)
Snack - Small and tasty, a little boost when you're peckish. (Berries - 4% food/water increase, 2 days lasting. Nuts 2% food increase - 5 days lasting)
Sustaining - Longest lasting but unable to bring food levels above 40%. (travel rations/provisions)
Nutritious - Good for you but doesn't keep too long (2 days lasting, 20% increase).
Rich - Fit for a king, only good while fresh (1 day keeping, 50% increase)

Drink

(20% increase unless stated otherwise)
Natural Water - Sipping from streams, pools, fountains or waterfalls (high chance of disease)
Treated Water - Bottled (7 days lasting, low chance of disease)
Boiled - Teas, coffees. (2 days lasting, 10% water/rest increase)
Juice/Milk - Nature's goodness (2 days lasting, 15% water/food increase)
Brewed - Stouts, beers, ales keeps awhile but can get you drunk (7 days lasting, -10% rest/sobriety)
Wine - For the refined palette (Indefinite until opened then 3 days lasting, 1% food, -15% rest/sobriety) Special: Unopened bottles become more potent with age, additional -1% rest/sobrierty per ingame year.
Spirits - Whisky, moonshine, spirits, vodka, gin, brandy (10 days lasting, 10% water increase, -20% sobriety/rest) Special: Stacking +1 save vs fear, -1 reflex save

[WanderingPoet]

I like the ideas, but not fond of the Expiry. Its very easy to wander around picking up fruit/berries/nuts and it'd be a shame if they just vaporized every couple of days. It'd be frustrating if every 1 to 2 days you had to spend /more/ CP to keep food on hand (or buy it dirt cheap), and if you happen to forget you're in trouble.

Likewise, those of us that run the Nomad (and other inns) tend to keep food on stock as not everyone is a cook. Realistically, yes, it doesn't make sense for food to last for months IG, but its a convenient way to facilitate RP and IC we just assume that the cook came by and made that day's food (which sells by end of day), and they're warming it up/finishing cooking it/prepping it.

Regardless, expiring food/water would be frustrating to deal with because it'd make watching over effectively a fifth meter - the "when will my goods expire" meter.

Likewise this would be a mess with stacking - if you collect 20 nuts today, and 20 nuts tomorrow - do they all expire together? If not does half the stack disappear or stop granting bonuses? Does adding a new one 'refresh' the timer on the stack, or are we tracking individual items here?

[Baseili]

I'd probably suggest the entire stack of berries/nuts/fruit plays off the first one picked, though the times for expiry are purely imaginative and to act as reference to show the longevity of the respective items. I'd imagine putting items in a storage chest would stop the countdown to expiry anyway, allowing inns/shops to keep a stock of food while also creating an actual demand for high quality stuff.

As for spending CP on making food, you'd only need to do that if you were a cook. Everyone else could still buy provisions from the various vendors for practically nothing, those who want the minor buff would need to visit a cook who in turn would need a supply of ingredients.

The system is quite flexible so long as a limit to how much certain foods can increase the metres (drinks being the exception to the limit sans any that provide +food) if so inclined, even the expiry idea itself could be scrapped if say one could only reach above 60% whilst in a home or inn marked area.

[WanderingPoet]

I think the idea of food that provides buffs, that can only be 'made' and expires could work - but 'standard fair', less so.

I think the idea of only being able to get above 60% while 'in town'/inn/home makes sense - or around a campfire. Some characters have no reason to ever visit town and don't have homes, so it doesn't make sense for them to always be half starved because they don't like people. So allowing a group to setup a campfire, eat around it and then continue on would be interesting and make more use for firewood.

Allowing the camp to be extinguished but leave traces of it would also be interesting as it allows for tracking where people stopped, especially if it allows a ranger to track how long ago it was extinguished!

[JediZero]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16008 Anyone?

[Baseili]

I think the idea of food that provides buffs, that can only be 'made' and expires could work - but 'standard fair', less so.

I think the idea of only being able to get above 60% while 'in town'/inn/home makes sense - or around a campfire. Some characters have no reason to ever visit town and don't have homes, so it doesn't make sense for them to always be half starved because they don't like people. So allowing a group to setup a campfire, eat around it and then continue on would be interesting and make more use for firewood.

Allowing the camp to be extinguished but leave traces of it would also be interesting as it allows for tracking where people stopped, especially if it allows a ranger to track how long ago it was extinguished!

All sounds pretty good to me, especially if the campfire could be used like that. Maybe have destroyed fires leave remains and tie it into the investigate system?

[Durvayas]

I'm firmly in the camp that food/water meters serve no purpose whatsover save for in outlandish places like the abyss, the hells, the sibiyad desert, and the lowerdark. In any other situation than the four labeled prior, the food/water system is an active detriment to immersion and RP, with people either on the brink of death in the middle of meetings, or stuffing their faces with five rations at once or drinking a literal gallon of water at a time.

Please scrap the mandatory-ness of the food/water meters. Bonuses would be great, but it is literally one of the worst, most tedious aspects of playing on this server.

The rest meter is also somewhat bad. Not as bad, as it serves a purpose for casters, but it punishes casters for being anything above half exausted alcoholics, and to melee characters who don't rely on resting for abilities, its just another tedious meter to deal with. It should be changed somehow to be more immersive, and less punishing, as a quality of life thing.

[MoreThanThree]

no stop
oh please dont do this
why by chauntea why

[Bran Bree]

Like the ideas in this thread. I'd agree with...

-Keep the food/rest/water system for necessary areas like wilds, dungeons, etc.
-Remove it from unnecessary areas like settlements, other logical places, campfires, etc.
-Remove the dependency between rest and magic. Give magic it's own "study spell book" function that can only be used after X hours or something.

Feedback:
I love the idea of characters having to go to inns for R&R and RP. However, even with the current system people STILL RP in front of the Nomad or other watering holes where food/rest/water deplete, and often have to BREAK RP to go into an Inn to rest.

Playing a caster, it is often stressful to always be close to exhaustion. And it doesn't make sense why a caster would be at a disadvantage from having a full nights rest (I feel bad for my character suffering from eternal sleep deprivation ).

Can't complain though. I do think the current system adds to immersion, so I wouldn't want it to go away completely.

[BegoneThoth]

After you rest though, you get your spells back. How is that a disadvantage?

[Nitro]

After you rest though, you get your spells back. How is that a disadvantage?

Because if you've rested up to full you can't rest again. For a non-caster this doesn't matter, just spam kits when low on HP anyway, but for a caster it makes you useless until such a point where you can rest up again, meaning casters are punished for resting up to full in inns, and incentivized to be close to 0% rest alcoholic zombies so they can always rest to replenish spells when need arises.

[BegoneThoth]

I don't know. Thazar rarely drinks to avoid being called an alcoholic, like so many island mages. He does fine, I wouldn't say people are "forced" into being sleep deprived alcoholics, it's an ic choice exclusively.