Smite Neutrals

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RedGiant
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by RedGiant » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:21 pm

At risk of derailing my own thread, I believe Wytchee has no strong feeling on this either way.

SMITE HER!

(...for only 50% damage)
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by BegoneThoth » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:22 pm

You would get 50% ab too right?
\

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Wytchee
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Wytchee » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:47 pm

I accept my fate sans remonstration.
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RedGiant
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by RedGiant » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:38 am

BegoneThoth wrote:You would get 50% ab too right?
This is actually a good point.

Though, I think we needs make it more technical. A 50% AB cut by itself is wildly subject to misinterpretation, and I hope not what you meant.

In SMITE EVIL, "The character applies their charisma modifier to their attack roll." I would totally be in favor of this applying half the cha modifier to attack rolls for neutrals. Thus, institute only a 50% AB bonus against neutrals. I assume this is what you meant.

A funny subtext of this thread for me, personally, is that I currently play no paladins. My most gratuitous class choice is druid. I'm with Wytchee in the smitee category.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Ramza » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:46 am

Tell my Wife, Hello.

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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Rivace_Silver » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:09 pm

This is one of the best things ive read on this forum ... Jack you just made my day
Jack Oat wrote: This is akin to telling a PnP DM they can't tell a Paladin how to play their Lawful Good alignment because they can't understand the whole of that alignment. Yes you can.

"Good" is "I do things that help other people at my own cost."

Evil is "I do things that help me or my desires at the cost of others."

Neutral is "I do nice things. Sometimes. Not really often, usually only when it suits me. I don't really do evil stuff though, isn't my place to take peoples' stuff away or what not."

Lawful is "I abide a code or set of principles because without that I feel lost amidst an ocean of nonsense."

Chaos is "idk fam I do what I want without much concern for a code or what not."

So when you run across Slaver McMurderHobo goes "hey i dont like elfs n i wanna go 2 war with them cus i can and lol slaves" you can go "Hm. This guy doesn't really seem to have a code (chaotic) and is doing stuff for personal gain at the cost of others (evil)."
Last edited by Rivace_Silver on Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Rivace_Silver » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:12 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:Just include CN in Smite Evil. It's a stupid alignment anyways, for the reasons described above.

players playing the alignment wrong, does not make it stupid, it makes those players incapable of playing an alignment and the dm's should be able to (even if they choose not to) handle that particular issue.

I happen to like CN and it can be played correctly. I believe there was a in depth discussion in another thread which went into great detail what is and is not acceptable CN rp. there are several players who play it wonderfully.
-That one time that Stath did that one thing and it was funny...

-We cannot all be the hero, some have to be the normal folk who make others heros..

- we are all the protagonist of our own stories.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by One Two Three Five » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:22 am

If you don't think TN would be the new CN the moment smite evil started hitting chaotic you don't know the people that play here very well.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:59 am

One Two Three Five wrote:If you don't think TN would be the new CN the moment smite evil started hitting chaotic you don't know the people that play here very well.
It often begs the question if we should abolish Arelith's alignment system, in favour of delineating mechanics based on the pre-existing deity system. I.e. "Smite worshipper of Evil God" has always seemed more appropriate than "Smite NE thug."
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Dr_Hazard89 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:30 am

I vote no on all of this. People should just play their alignments properly, and not cheese it for mechanical advantage. See something very wrong, just report it.

Every time a paladin murders an innocent ..
.. Nothing happens. It's totally okay to murder innocent people, as long as you think they should be evil.

"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza

That was sarcasm, it's totally not okay. Bad.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by dallion43 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:32 am

Evil aligments will immidiatly multiply if "I kill majority of evil builds with 2 strikes after I spent 100xp" will be tuned to +10-20 flat constant damage vs evil or etc or etc;

-> Meaning paladin will have a significant advantage but can be fight off without the lady of luck involved, at least unless Beshaba desided to say hi yet another time.
No I didn't say paladin can't be fight off as is if one is evil. Still.
And no, this isn't a nerf request, smaller constant buff is better, imho, then three time wonder per rest ).

P.C Smite neutral, eee...I smite you you tree hugger?..
Heh.."your neutral opinion on this matter irritates me to no end and I will end you now, because the Lady is on my side!"
Sounds bad even for someone like me :p.

Many players play neutral because it gives flexibility to one's words, without limiting one to one constant style of play.

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MissEvelyn
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 am

I'm all in favor of making Smite Evil/Good work on Neutrals.

That said, it wouldn't hurt if Smite Evil/Good also worked with Ranged weapons.


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RedGiant
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by RedGiant » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:16 am

MissEvelyn wrote:I'm all in favor of making Smite Evil/Good work on Neutrals.

That said, it wouldn't hurt if Smite Evil/Good also worked with Ranged weapons.
Never thought of this. Love it!
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frightnight
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by frightnight » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:52 am

honestly it sounds more like a DM issue than a mechanical issue... making smite work on opposing alignment and neutral is about as cheesy as that true neutral lich that was in place to avoid effects of pfa

it just kinda feels like its going against the spirit of DnD

if a pc’s rp doesnt coincide with their chosen align an align change seems suitable enough doesnt it?

idk
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by -XXX- » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:54 am

viewtopic.php?f=15&p=128123#p128123
Turns out that entitled millennial paladins have no other choice but to continue revelling in their impotence. Deal with it 8-)

Now if we could kindly move on and cease these cheesy attempts to ask for undeserved point-clicky autowin buttons being handed over for no tradeoff whatsoever, that would be nice.

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Xanos950
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Xanos950 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:25 pm

Smite neutral would make zero sense. Hope it will never be implemented.

"Your lack of feeling toward one way or the other is literally as disgusting as fiends and other atrocities, i shall smite thee for some weird reason, because evidently I'm a paladin, and i really like cheese!"

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Iceborn
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Iceborn » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Xanos950 wrote:Smite neutral would make zero sense. Hope it will never be implemented.

"Your lack of feeling toward one way or the other is literally as disgusting as fiends and other atrocities, i shall smite thee for some weird reason, because evidently I'm a paladin, and i really like cheese!"
Apathy is not the only form of neutrality.
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MissEvelyn
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by MissEvelyn » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:04 am

Both extremely good and extremely evil people find apathy annoying and distasteful. Some of them might even describe apathetic people as a waste of air.

There's plenty of RP justification as to why Smite should at least partially work on neutrals.


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Lorkas
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Lorkas » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:22 am

The ability isn't Smite Annoyance. It's for smiting your opponent in a war between cosmic forces.

For an example, an infernalist blackguard would certainly like to kill an abyssal, but they can't do it with smite (unless we add Smite chaotic and Smite lawful).

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by One Two Three Five » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:42 am

Imagine being a paladin of Ilmater, god of suffering and mercy, and seeing someone who's just, like, a merchant and doesn't want to get involved in an epic struggle between good and evil-

And getting so mad that you murder him with divine magic.

Imagine staying a paladin. I say imagine, because you wouldn't. Not that this matters because it's hardcoded unless the EE says otherwise.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Improv » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:00 am

I mean.. if you give extremes the ability to smite neutral are you going to give neutrals the ability to smite extremes? A druid can be extremely passionate about "the balance" brand of neutrality for example, as weird as passion about neutrality could sound. And most animals are neutral not because of apathy but lack of the concept of morality to begin with, that's a thing to smite?

Everything doesn't need a counter, it's okay if some abilities, classes, alignments what have you are a bit lopsided. Smite is such a niche ability you can be a good/evil character and never get "smitten" anyway.

I would say though, law vs chaos smiting might be interesting, perhaps for divine champions, paladins and BGs depending on deity?

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Karris the Anarchist
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Karris the Anarchist » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:42 am

Make smite work on neutrals (and good), but have it give evil points to the paladin on hit.

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Aodh Lazuli
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:46 pm

Lorkas wrote:Smite Annoyance.
This is a feat everyone wants.
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by -XXX- » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:58 am

How about just removing paladins/blackguards as a class altogether. Personally, I find the entire concept of a "divine champion" kind of dumb and extremely immersion breaking.

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If Valor Were Inches
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Re: Smite Neutrals

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:05 am

Using smite today, It would be nice if it came with a small visual effect.

On the day Arelith moves to haks, or if EE hardcodes it, another idea I had was to have smite do more damage the further away in alignment your oppponent was, with a flat 0 if they were the same alignment.

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